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Why does the Bible get misinterpreted so often????

Forums: Spirituality And Religion, Religion, Christianity, Bible
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Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 10:58 am
RexRed wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Okay, Rex.

Here is a passage from the Bible...it is the god of the Bible speaking to Moses:


"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be
put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
lives." Leviticus 20:13

I cannot speak for all agnostics and atheists...but most agnostics and atheists I know are of the opinion that this passage is clear and unambiguous. It indicates a facet of human behavior...identifies that behavior as repugnant to the god of the Bible...an "abominable deed"...and decrees that the penalty for such behavior should be death.


Now...bring to bear all the things you mentioned...and tell us how "the Bible interprets" this passage.

And I thank you in advance for helping make my point.



The Bible interprets itself because you are a bigot...

Is that clear enough


Rex also wrote:

Quote:
You take scriptures out of context and use them for your bigotry...


So...put it into context...and let the Bible tell me what the god of the Bible was trying to say with the passage quoted.

That shouldn't be hard for you...since you give lectures on how the Bible interprets itself!!!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 11:00 am
RexRed wrote:
The Bible also say THERE IS NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE but all are one in Christ...

Is that clear and unambiguous to you atheist and aggies???

You have been told this scripture yet you gravitate toward bigotry of the OT... that in itself is revealing of your character...

The Bible is an acid test to weed out people like you who cannot LEARN...


Teach us, Rex. Tell us how the Bible interprets the passage I quoted.

Do it...instead of dodging it with all this nonsense.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 11:10 am
I have told you on several occasions... the Bible teaches there are TWO "Gods"...

Now honestly ask yourself, which God wrote your scripture that you love to throw at gay Christians?

Which God is the God of law and which God is the God of liberty?

When you find the answer you will have LEARNED something...

Libra is a balance...
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 12:43 pm
RexRed wrote:
I have told you on several occasions... the Bible teaches there are TWO "Gods"...

Now honestly ask yourself, which God wrote your scripture that you love to throw at gay Christians?

Which God is the God of law and which God is the God of liberty?

When you find the answer you will have LEARNED something...

Libra is a balance...


Are you saying that your god...the god that supposedly made the universe...the god you suppose wants humans to know pleases and offends it and what it expects of humans...

...is not able to pass a simply message about homosexual conduct on to humanity?

We all have to depend on RexRed to come into this world to tell us that there are two gods in the Bible...and RexRed is able to tell us which passages were inspired by which god???????

C'mon, Rex.

Stop playing around and answer my question.
0 Replies
 
Gestalt
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 02:35 pm
Eh; read the book of John and think for yourselves.

The bible is very coherent and dependable. Sometimes it does take the Holy spirit to understand the meanings of some things, but it is all out their all you have to do is read it.

Disasters happen because of sin. People die because sin was let into this world. Why do you think Hurricane Katrina happened? It's because of what we led sin onto this earth that disasters happen at all.

The bible was made over hundreds of years, it is full of parables and sometimes hard to understand passages. But in context EVERYTHING connects together perfectly. People are going to misinterpret it. People are not perfect. All we can do is develop in the faith and learn more as time goes on, and also stand the test of time. If it were not true I would have left this religion long ago.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 05:40 pm
Quote:
why don't you do a comparison of how many lives XXXXX organizations have saved because of their ideology versus how many lives Christian organizations have saved because of their beliefs. I'm willing to do this with you. You identify the XXXXX-professing organizations (of course, they must truly profess XXXXX as the root of their benevolence), and I will do the same for Christian organizations. Then we'll get estimates of lives saved and compare. What do you say, are you game?


Well, well, I see the typical Christian vanity and pride emerging. I don't know how many times I've heard Christians brag about how they have a monopoly on morality, charity and saving souls and lives.

No human can be happy until they find Christ.
No one can know morality, right from wrong, unless they are Christian.
No one cares about others unless they are believers in Christ.
All souls will be lost, wandering around in their misery and loneliness, until they find Christ.

I am a deist. I follow no religion. For me there is one God for all. It matters little to God what one's faith is. If it did he would not be any better than a prejudiced religious fanatic.

I don't believe in the Bible because I don't believe in a God that kills and slaughters innocent people. If that's the type of God you Christians take pride in believing in then so be it. I find the Bible insulting to God. But what would you expect from a series of books written by men who think they can speak for God; or perhaps those who wrote and later men, for reasons of their own, made their writings divine.

God gives souls to all faiths and races. That's enough for me to see that God does not discriminate or play favorites. We are all equal in God's eyes and are treated equally, regardless of our faith or behavior. A lot of Christians, in their prideful beliefs, think they will be favored by God because of their faith. Perhaps they think they will be give a house by a street paved with gold and silver, hopefully not to close to one of the pearly gates as there will be a lot of traffic.

You like to think that atheist and agnostics don't care about morality, saving or helping people. Click on the sites below. There you will see that they care about helping people as much as any prideful Christian.

http://www.atheists.org/

http://www.infidels.org/
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 05:56 pm
Gestalt wrote:
Eh; read the book of John and think for yourselves.


I am assuming your are talking about the 4th gospel here.

The "book of John" is the least reliable of the gospels. The Jesus Seminar has pretty much concluded that almost none of the words attributed to Jesus in that book...actually are the words of Jesus.

Frankly, I find John boring...and about as close to reality as a Grimm Brothers fairytale.

But I appreciate that some people find it edifying.



Quote:
The bible is very coherent and dependable.


The Bible is almost incoherent...and is about as dependable as a Grimm Brothers fairytale.


Quote:

Sometimes it does take the Holy spirit to understand the meanings of some things, but it is all out their all you have to do is read it.

Disasters happen because of sin.


Disasters happen because disasters happen. People...especially relatively unknowledgeable, relatively unsophisticated ancient, superstitious people...tended to attribute disasters to various gods....and that seems to be a very hard habit to break.

I can understand relatively unknowledgeable, relatively unsophisticated ancient, superstitious people thinking that way...but I have lots of trouble with modern humans playing that same game.


Quote:
People die because sin was let into this world. Why do you think Hurricane Katrina happened? It's because of what we led sin onto this earth that disasters happen at all.


Oh...if you stick around...you are going to have lots of fun in this forum.


Quote:
The bible was made over hundreds of years, it is full of parables and sometimes hard to understand passages. But in context EVERYTHING connects together perfectly. People are going to misinterpret it. People are not perfect. All we can do is develop in the faith and learn more as time goes on, and also stand the test of time. If it were not true I would have left this religion long ago.


Or you could be mistaken.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 05:57 pm
By the way, Gestalt...since Rex seems to be having so much trouble "interpreting" that passage I quoted above...

...how about you giving it a whirl???
0 Replies
 
Implicator
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 07:42 pm
Re: Why does the Bible get misinterpreted so often????
Frank Apisa wrote:
Seems like in every debate or discussion with a Christian...at some point, the Christian will assert that something from the Bible is being misinterpreted...or misused in some way.

What is it with that?

Essentially, you Christians are saying that there is a GOD that made everything...

...a personal GOD that wants us to know what IT is like...what pleases IT...what offends IT....what it expects of humans.

This GOD...made planet Earth; the other planets; the sun; the other 200+ billions of suns that make up our galaxy; and the hundreds of billions of other galaxies that we know exist. It placed them in space so vast that two galaxies can pass through each other without any of their stars crashing into each other.

Are you telling me that this GOD cannot manage to get ITS story out in a coherent, dependable form...so that each of us KNOWS what IT is like....what pleases IT...what offends IT....and what IT expects of us?


What on Earth are you folks thinking of?


It does sound a bit silly to claim that an all-powerful god wants all people to know it, yet not all people know it.

Then again, maybe it is true that such a god exists, and that knowledge of it is one desire it has, yet it is not the *ultimate* desire it has.

Or, maybe all people *do* know this god, yet they claim they don't.

Lots of possibilities.

I
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2005 07:49 pm
Re: Why does the Bible get misinterpreted so often????
Implicator wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Seems like in every debate or discussion with a Christian...at some point, the Christian will assert that something from the Bible is being misinterpreted...or misused in some way.

What is it with that?

Essentially, you Christians are saying that there is a GOD that made everything...

...a personal GOD that wants us to know what IT is like...what pleases IT...what offends IT....what it expects of humans.

This GOD...made planet Earth; the other planets; the sun; the other 200+ billions of suns that make up our galaxy; and the hundreds of billions of other galaxies that we know exist. It placed them in space so vast that two galaxies can pass through each other without any of their stars crashing into each other.

Are you telling me that this GOD cannot manage to get ITS story out in a coherent, dependable form...so that each of us KNOWS what IT is like....what pleases IT...what offends IT....and what IT expects of us?


What on Earth are you folks thinking of?


It does sound a bit silly to claim that an all-powerful god wants all people to know it, yet not all people know it.

Then again, maybe it is true that such a god exists, and that knowledge of it is one desire it has, yet it is not the *ultimate* desire it has.

Or, maybe all people *do* know this god, yet they claim they don't.

Lots of possibilities.

I


Yup!

It is what some people refer to as "the unknown."

No problem there.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 11:56 am
Overview of Leviticus 20:13:
This is almost identical to Leviticus 18:22. In transliterated Hebrew, the verse is written: "V'ish asher yishkav et zachar mishk'vei ishah to'evah asu shneihem mot yumatu d'meihem bam."

Over the last few centuries, most Christians and Jews have rejected Leviticus 20:13. They no longer call on the death penalty for homosexuals. Only Christian Reconstructionists and a few Christian hate groups wish to revert to mass executions of gays and lesbians today.

Various interpretations of Leviticus 20:13:
Conservative Christians generally interpret the passage as condemning all male homosexual activity. Some would extend it to lesbians as well. A comment on the capital punishment aspect of this passage by an Evangelical authority is:
T.Crater: "...stated that the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) are a covenant between God and Israel, which also set up a civil state and decreed its laws. The Christian Scriptures (New Testament) is an agreement "between God and a multinational body called the church. It is not a state, so it doesn't engage in state functions like capital punishment." Thus, the death penalty called for in Leviticus 20:13 is no longer binding for Christians."

Liberal Christians - Some comments on the death penalty aspect of this passage by pastors and academics taking a liberal position are:
J. Nelson: "It is grounded in the old Jewish understanding that women are less worthy than men. For a man to have sex with another man 'as with a woman' insults the other man, because women are to be treated as property." She added that this passage is not part of the 10 Commandments, but merely part of almost 600 additional rules put forth via Israel's religious leaders.

D. Bartlett: "Nobody I know, even the most conservative, is saying homosexuals should be executed. I think people who think they take the Bible literally don't take it so literally as to want to execute people."

Krister Stendahl: "If you look at the whole chapter, a lot of things come in for capital punishment that no Southern Baptist would argue that capital punishment is appropriate for. So their reading is a little selective."

Many religious liberals believe that this passage does not refer to all homosexual behavior, but only to a specific form of homosexual prostitution - that performed in a Pagan temple.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 12:11 pm
Linkat wrote:
D. Bartlett: "Nobody I know, even the most conservative, is saying homosexuals should be executed.


Well I can think of one "body" that does say homosexuals should be killed for their activities....the god of the Bible.

The god of the Bible is rather straight forward about its feelings in that regard. The god of the Bible says quite plainly that anyone engaging in such acitivity ought to be put to death. The god of the Bible quite plainly says that such activity is an "abomination."

That is a pretty important "body" to Christians and Jews...wouldn't you say?
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 12:22 pm
"….this passage is not part of the 10 Commandments, but merely part of almost 600 additional rules put forth via Israel's religious leaders. "
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 01:01 pm
Gestalt wrote:
Eh; read the book of John and think for yourselves.

The bible is very coherent and dependable. Sometimes it does take the Holy spirit to understand the meanings of some things, but it is all out their all you have to do is read it.

Disasters happen because of sin. People die because sin was let into this world. Why do you think Hurricane Katrina happened? It's because of what we led sin onto this earth that disasters happen at all.

The bible was made over hundreds of years, it is full of parables and sometimes hard to understand passages. But in context EVERYTHING connects together perfectly. People are going to misinterpret it. People are not perfect. All we can do is develop in the faith and learn more as time goes on, and also stand the test of time. If it were not true I would have left this religion long ago.


Welcome Gestalt to A2K...

I must second what you say...

I have thought the same for years...

The Bible fits like a hand in a glove and when people take verses out of context it is to suit their OWN interpretation...

In Frank's case it seems it is so he can reject the God of the Bible for his own deification... or to jab Christians he is not interested in the scope of the word.

Like buying Playboy only for the dirty pictures... Smile
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 01:08 pm
Linkat wrote:
"….this passage is not part of the 10 Commandments, but merely part of almost 600 additional rules put forth via Israel's religious leaders. "


Nonsense.

Both passages I've cited here are part of the LAW...of which the 10 "commandments" are merely a very small part.

And neither passage is anything put forth via Israel's religious leaders. The Bible specifically states that the god of the Bible said these words directly to Moses. In fact, if you look at the passages, they are in quotation marks.
0 Replies
 
djbt
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 01:11 pm
Gestalt wrote:
Disasters happen because of sin. People die because sin was let into this world. Why do you think Hurricane Katrina happened? It's because of what we led sin onto this earth that disasters happen at all.

Let me get this straight:

1) Sin = defiance of God. (premise)
2) Hurricane Katrina is the result of sin. (premise)
3) Hurricanes Katrina is the result of the defiance of God. (from 1 and 2)
4) God kills people when he is defied (from 3)

RedRex - is that the good God or the bad God? It seems difficult to tell the difference...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 01:13 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
Linkat wrote:
D. Bartlett: "Nobody I know, even the most conservative, is saying homosexuals should be executed.


Well I can think of one "body" that does say homosexuals should be killed for their activities....the god of the Bible.

The god of the Bible is rather straight forward about its feelings in that regard. The god of the Bible says quite plainly that anyone engaging in such acitivity ought to be put to death. The god of the Bible quite plainly says that such activity is an "abomination."

That is a pretty important "body" to Christians and Jews...wouldn't you say?


Correction Frank... the GodS of the Bible...


2Co 4:4
In whom the god [theos] of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Comment
You will never understand Frank until you realize there are TWO Gods in the Bible... and only one TRUE God...

You seem to not be interested in the two Gods just throwing around bigoted statements. Adulterers were stoned as homosexuals too... they received an equal measure of punishment.

Where was mercy where was liberty where was grace in the OT?

They were tied up by the sins of Adam and Eve and it was the LORD Jesus Christ that redeemed, sanctified, justified and made us righteous so the the true God could reign supreme spiritually...
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 01:14 pm
RexRed wrote:
I have thought the same for years...

The Bible fits like a hand in a glove and when people take verses out of context it is to suit their OWN interpretation...


It is you, Rex...and other Christians, who take verses out of context to suit your own interpretations...not those of us who see the constant contradictions in that book.

You folks claim there is an injunction "thou shalt not kill". I see that written in two places...very short sentences each.

I can point out dozens upon dozens of places where the god is commanding people to kill for all sorts of reasons.

But you folks want to interpret the Bible as having a god who does not want killing based on the few...and you want to disregard the many.

It is a joke.


Quote:
In Frank's case it seems it is so he can reject the God of the Bible for his own deification... or to jab Christians he is not interested in the scope of the word.


Right!

And it cannot be that I am pointing out contradictions to show that the Bible is incredibly undependable???

Once again...no wonder they call you folks sheep.

Why don't you explain to Gestalt about the second god that is responsible for the passage:

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be
put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
lives." Leviticus 20:13


I'm sure he/she will get a kick out of that.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 01:16 pm
RexRed wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Linkat wrote:
D. Bartlett: "Nobody I know, even the most conservative, is saying homosexuals should be executed.


Well I can think of one "body" that does say homosexuals should be killed for their activities....the god of the Bible.

The god of the Bible is rather straight forward about its feelings in that regard. The god of the Bible says quite plainly that anyone engaging in such acitivity ought to be put to death. The god of the Bible quite plainly says that such activity is an "abomination."

That is a pretty important "body" to Christians and Jews...wouldn't you say?


Correction Frank... the GodS of the Bible...


2Co 4:4
In whom the god [theos] of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Comment
You will never understand Frank until you realize there are TWO Gods in the Bible... and only one TRUE God...

You seem to not be interested in the two Gods just throwing around bigoted statements. Adulterers were stoned as homosexuals too... they received an equal measure of punishment.

Where was mercy where was liberty where was grace in the OT?

They were tied up by the sins of Adam and Eve and it was the LORD Jesus Christ that redeemed, sanctified, justified and made us righteous so the the true God could reign supreme spiritually...


And of course...you know when each god is talking...so you can tell which passages belong to which god.

How very convenient.

I've asked you several times to explain how you know which god is talking. You've never really answered.

Why not do it now.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2005 01:22 pm
djbt wrote:
Gestalt wrote:
Disasters happen because of sin. People die because sin was let into this world. Why do you think Hurricane Katrina happened? It's because of what we led sin onto this earth that disasters happen at all.

Let me get this straight:

1) Sin = defiance of God. (premise)
2) Hurricane Katrina is the result of sin. (premise)
3) Hurricanes Katrina is the result of the defiance of God. (from 1 and 2)
4) God kills people when he is defied (from 3)

RedRex - is that the good God or the bad God? It seems difficult to tell the difference...


God does not lift a finger people control the wind themselves and take the lives of the innocent with them...

God saves lives remember?
0 Replies
 
 

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