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Why does the Bible get misinterpreted so often????

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 03:25 pm
But I'm not the one trying to decide the interpretation of a two thousand year old book that's been revised over and over.
0 Replies
 
Implicator
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:02 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Implicator, I return yet again to the point of interpretation.


Actually, I really wish you would return to the prior point I made where I provided the definition of the term "interpret", and showed why it is that you interpret the Bible just like the rest of us. Is there a problem with the definition I provided? Do you think the definition does not apply to what you do when you evaluate what the Bible is saying? Or are you just no longer interested in discussing the original issue I took with you in this thread?


timberlandko wrote:
That such might be necessary or even desirable in the context of divinely revealed truth is an absurd, self-cancelling notion, defensible only through sophistry;


Once again, you make claims of sophistry yet fail to back them up, which literally has the effect of turning your own argument back on yourself. Also, I never claimed that interpretation was "necessary", so please do not state that I have. And although interpretation may not be desirable to you, that has no bearing on whether it was desirable to God, or (more importantly) whether it can be objectively shown that interpretation should not be desired.


timberlandko wrote:
it does not stand to objective, critical, linear, logical thought.


Please demonstrate why this is the case, taking into consideration my comments above.


timberlandko wrote:
Whether or not any religionist proposition, Christian or otherwise, may have any validity is immaterial; no forensically valid argument for same can be presented. That is not to say cogent, powerful, even compelling arguments may not be made - many such exist (though none have been presented in these discussions by any proponent of the Theory of Christianity) - just that no forensically valid argument can be made for any such proposition. Going back to definitions, by definition the metaphysical, with its entailed ontology, is that which lays beyond physical experience and reference. Forensically, any pro-religionist proposition by necessity proceeds from the illicit, assumption-based thesis that the religionist proposition presented is self-evidently valid.


I am going to repeat back what I think you have just said in order to ensure I have understood it - please correct me if I have not properly interpreted what I have read.

It seems as if you are claiming that all religionist propositions (regardless of their truth state) cannot be expressed in forensically valid form just because all such propositions are necessarily of such a form that they ultimately rest upon an assumption of self-evidence specifically because they invoke that which has existence outside of the physical realm.

Is that correct?

Regardless of whether my interpretation was correct, I will assert that all propositions ultimately rest upon an assumption of self-evidence, whether metaphysical or not.


timberlandko wrote:
Religion itself is the prime example of circular reasoning.


Life itself is the prime example of circular reasoning, specifically when one attempts to demonstrate the truth state of any proposition using linear thought. Knowledge of anything at all ultimately rests upon an epistemic basis, the truth state of which cannot be demonstrated using linear thought.

In short, if you consign yourself to knowing only those things that may ultimately be demonstrated through linear thought, you cannot know anything at all, which is itself a self-refuting position to hold to.

I
0 Replies
 
Implicator
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:17 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
In case you missed timber's post:

Whether or not any religionist proposition, Christian or otherwise, may have any validity is immaterial; no forensically valid argument for same can be presented.


In case you missed it, C.I. This applies to both sides.


And for the record, I submit never have I contended otherwise. I champion neither atheism nor theism; I am an agnostic, which I see to be the only logically validated position to take; there is no conclusive evidence to either side of the question.

I will of course admit to a strong lean toward skepticism, however.


Given your comments to me above, it would seem that you do not think such evidence could ever be presented. Or do you?

I
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:20 pm
Cicerone Imposter Wrote:

Quote:
But I'm not the one trying to decide the interpretation of a two thousand year old book that's been revised over and over.


Oh really? Rolling Eyes Seems to me you have no problem at all telling us the way we understand it is wrong. In order to say someone else's interpretation is wrong, you must first have an interpretation of your own Idea
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:22 pm
Trusting in religion may not be linear, but it's a crutch for people that wish to believe in some superior creator that may or may not offer eternal life after death.

I see religion as a spiritual opium that lessens the real pain of living on this planet - the fear of eternal death.

I seek my reality from my environment and what is observable as "truth." Could I be wrong? Sure, but I can't prove otherwise. I prefer to error on the side of my reality.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:27 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Trusting in religion may not be linear, but it's a crutch for people that wish to believe in some superior creator that may or may not offer eternal life after death.

I see religion as a spiritual opium that lessens the real pain of living on this planet - the fear of eternal death.

I seek my reality from my environment and what is observable as "truth." Could I be wrong? Sure, but I can't prove otherwise. I prefer to error on the side of my reality.


Mr. Imposter,
What puts you in a position to determine what is, and what is not, a crutch for anyone? I don't know what experience you have with opium, but given your logic...it must be considerable.

The very fact that you admit that you can't prove otherwise is an admission that you do not know. Why do you take it upon yourself to tell others that they are wrong if you do not know what is right?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:40 pm
I do not know, because there is no proof one way or the other. My belief goes beyond any message in the bible. If there is such a thing as a creator, IMHO, a god doesn't resemble anything like the interpretation related in the bible. This planet is estimated to be over 4.5 billion years old, and the god of the bible only appears four thousand years ago according to the Torah. The bible itself estimates the earth to be less than six thousand years old. Humans are estimated to have existed over two hundred milliions years. The bible god is too late to show up to be anything but a man-created god as with many other gods created by man.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:41 pm
The bible has to be more accurate that wikipedia?
or even harder to forge?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:42 pm
From my observations, it is inherent in man to create and worship gods. Most believed their god was the "real" one.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:49 pm
Cicerone Imposter Wrote:

Quote:
Trusting in religion may not be linear, but it's a crutch for people that wish to believe in some superior creator that may or may not offer eternal life after death.

I see religion as a spiritual opium that lessens the real pain of living on this planet - the fear of eternal death.

I seek my reality from my environment and what is observable as "truth." Could I be wrong? Sure, but I can't prove otherwise. I prefer to error on the side of my reality.


What gives you the right to think you can tell me or anyone else what is a crutch in mine or their life? You haven't got the first clue as to why I believe what I believe. You have never IMHO taken the time to even try to understand what I and others have tried to explain to you.

Mr. Cicerone Imposter, just remember that you made the choice to error on the side of your reality and why you made that decision. Someday, it will be more important than you know.

But, until then, please do not presume to tell me anything about why I believe or what I believe. Please do not presume to tell me what the Word of God says. Please do not presume that you have the right to ridicule and belittle those that believe in God.

I feel sorry for you, Mr. Cicerone Imposter. I honestly do. How you can care so little about other people that you would ridicule them just because they believe in God. I am praying for you and your family. You have said many of them are Christian. I can imagine how this hurts them too.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 05:57 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
. . . The bible itself estimates the earth to be less than six thousand years old. . .
The bible does not say that. YOU say that. Pay attention and learn something.


GRRR! :wink:
0 Replies
 
Implicator
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 06:11 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Trusting in religion may not be linear, but it's a crutch for people that wish to believe in some superior creator that may or may not offer eternal life after death.

I see religion as a spiritual opium that lessens the real pain of living on this planet - the fear of eternal death.

I seek my reality from my environment and what is observable as "truth." Could I be wrong? Sure, but I can't prove otherwise. I prefer to error on the side of my reality.



Pejoratives about religion aside, here is what you said:

Quote:
"I seek my reality from my environment and what is observable as "truth."


No, you seek reality in what you observe to be truth. You don't objectively observe truth, which is what your statement implied.


Quote:
Could I be wrong?


Yes.


Quote:
Sure, but I can't prove otherwise.


You are most likely unable to prove either side of the story.


Quote:
I prefer to error on the side of my reality.


As we all do.


I
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 06:27 pm
neo, I don't say that; bible scholars say that.

Overview:
There is a great diversity of belief concerning the age of the Earth and the rest of the universe:

Most estimates based on a literal interpretation of the Bible, and in particular the belief that the Hebrew word : "yom" in Genesis refers to a 24 hour day, cluster around 6,000 years :± 2,000 years for both the age of the Earth and of the rest of the universe. These estimates are promoted by young-Earth creationists, and by the vast majority of Christian para-church organizations which specialize in origins. In 1738, De Vignoles stated that he had accumulated no fewer than 200 computations of the date of creation, all based upon various diverse interpretations of the Bible.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 06:29 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
neo, I don't say that; bible scholars say that.

Overview:
There is a great diversity of belief concerning the age of the Earth and the rest of the universe:

Most estimates based on a literal interpretation of the Bible, and in particular the belief that the Hebrew word : "yom" in Genesis refers to a 24 hour day, cluster around 6,000 years :± 2,000 years for both the age of the Earth and of the rest of the universe. These estimates are promoted by young-Earth creationists, and by the vast majority of Christian para-church organizations which specialize in origins. In 1738, De Vignoles stated that he had accumulated no fewer than 200 computations of the date of creation, all based upon various diverse interpretations of the Bible.

Cicerone Imposter,

If you do not believe in the Bible, why would you believe anything a Bible scholar says?
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 06:30 pm
If there have been 200 computations, why do you insist that we all think there is only one??????
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 06:33 pm
Not to mention the earth was probably billions of years old before the first day of Genesis.

Also, it's been over 6000 years and day seven is not yet over.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 06:40 pm
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 06:41 pm
It would be nice, for once, to have some words come out of C.I.'s own thought process.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 06:43 pm
The following timeline by Theodore Pederson appeared in The Christian News, March 26, 2001, page 18.

How old is the earth?
If we go back 500 years, we come to the time of Martin Luther (born in 1483), and Columbus, who "sailed the ocean blue in 1492."
If we go back 1000 years, we come to the time of Leif Ericson, Christian explorer, who preached Christ to pagans. (World Book, 1983, vol.6, page 270.)
If we go back 2000 years, we come to the birth of Jesus Christ. Our calendar is dated from His birth.
If we go back 3000 years, we come to the time of David and Solomon; they ruled Israel about 1000 BC.
If we go back 4000 years, we come to the time of Abraham (2000 BC), ancestor of Arabs and Jews.
If we go back 5000 years, we come to the time of Enoch, who "walked with God 300 years … and God took him [into Heaven]."
If we go back 6000 years, we come to the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve (4004 BC). Luke, evangelist and historian, records Adam as the first man (Luke 3:38).
The earth is about 6000 years old. Let God's people rejoice in Him who made them! (Psalm 149:2)
0 Replies
 
Implicator
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 06:43 pm
Intrepid wrote:
It would be nice, for once, to have some words come out of C.I.'s own thought process.


Agreed.

I
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