Matthew, Chapter 5:
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1 When he saw the crowds, 2 he went up the mountain, and after he had sat down, his disciples came to him.
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He began to teach them, saying:
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3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, 4 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
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5 Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.
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6 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.
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Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, 7 for they will be satisfied.
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Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
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8 Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.
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Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
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Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, 9 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
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Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.
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10 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
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11 12 "You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
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You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden.
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Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.
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Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.
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13 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
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Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.
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Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 14
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I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Try reading the link I posted, C.I.
The discounting of Jesus' message as stated in Matthew and Luke in both of your links rely on Paul's dissertations. Paul's authority seems to have been self-granted (unless you can show me where someone other than Paul granted him authority). As I said previously, the only reference I know of to Paul's activities are a description in Luke's Acts which was written 40 years after the fact. Paul gave Paul authority to discount the law in order to convert mass numbers of gentiles. It was the only way the church was going to grow beyond the Jewish-Christian community so he wasn't called out on it, except by Peter who was preaching the word of Jesus, not the story of Jesus and the word of Paul.
J_B wrote:Momma Angel wrote:timber,
Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the law. Once He was crucified, the law was fulfilled. The punishment for the Old Testament laws were fulfilled.
With Christ's death, burial and resurrection, the law was fulfilled. We then have the New Testament of Christ.
Matthew 5:18; For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. NRSV
How did the death, burial and resurrection cause heaven and earth to pass away?
This isn't easy to explain.
From my viewpoint, The Law is still used by the Interpreter. Most of us are freed from a lot of the old law, but it may be important for someone, somewhere. The Law isn't literally abolished--but when the Interpreter impresses on each person what is right for them, and what isn't, the entire law is read, studied and considered.
None of it has been erased. The Old ways should be known. Christ's sacrifice means we don't have to all follow the letter of the law. The spirit of the law transcends it.
That was my way, anyway.
Thank you, Lady Lash. I think you explained that quite well.
Who, or what, is the Interpreter, Lash?
It sounds like you're describing conscience, Lash, and that it is uniquely divined.
Thats sophistry, Momma A, pure and simple. Besides, if Paul's writings supercede the rest of the Bible, why have a Bible, and why call Paulism Christianity? Along with sophism, what you've got going there is inanity.
Someone else thought the Spirit was synonymous with conscience.
It was not in my case. Conscience and the Spirit are two distinct entities, in my experience. But, everyone has their own beliefs.
timberlandko wrote:Thats sophistry, Momma A, pure and simple. Besides, if Paul's writings supercede the rest of the Bible, why have a Bible, and why call Paulism Christianity? Along with sophism, what you've got going there is inanity.
C'mon timber, If Paul's writings superseded the rest of the bible, he wouldn't have written as he did in 2Timothy 3:16. I've got to go now but I'll get back to this later.
timberlandko wrote:Momma Angel wrote:If you will go to that link I posted it explains about that.
So what that interpretation means is superior to what the words say, and most specifically with reference to 5 Matthew 17 et seq? Look up the word "sophistry".
I haven't read the link in question, nor do I make any claim as to the accuracy of what is found there, but it seems to me that you are implying you have a greater understanding of the text than the author of this "interpretation".
Why is your interpretation more reliable than the alternate interpretation in question?
I
The primary documents are the OT and the Four Gospels. The others are of secondary importance. The secondary document cannot override the authority of the primary documents which Thumpers are wont to do in their arguments. Their attempts are like those of kids caught in a lie. They go into parsing words and securing obscure secondary texts to shore up their arguments.
By what authority have you decided which is primary and which is secondary?
Not dissenting, but just curious.
Lash wrote:By what authority have you decided which is primary and which is secondary?
Not dissenting, but just curious.
What came first would logically be titled 'primary', while what came second, and by it's own account is an appendage or addendum to what came before would logically be titled 'secondary'. No authority required.
Is first always better? Would Freud's analysis supercede what has come after?
I'd think new information would be of primary importance.
So your son has authority over you?
I mean--do you want the Donner's map to San Francisco--or Mapquest's?
You'll need to relax that rigidity.
One size doesn't fit all. If a new road is cut, it takes primary status over the old map.
My son is an adult. He is his own authority.
In the case of the Old Testament and New Testament, the Bible tells us what is primary.