Where Are All The W.M.D.s?

By the way -- just to be fair to Au and to Steissd

I jumped into this fray after Craven mentioned that "on several occasions" Steissd has called all Muslims "terrorists."

I personally have not heard that comment from Steissd, but Steissd has replied to Craven several times without disavowing that position.

If I am wrong -- if Steissd has never said "All Muslims are terrorists" -- obviously, my comments are out of line.

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Steissd has implied it many times, here's one:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=156342#156342

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Hmmmm - if no WMD's are found - does America give Iraq back?

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Frank Apisa

Quote:

I have debated many Israelis -- and Jews who support Israel -- over the years -- and I cannot tell you how many times the Israeli or Jew supporting Israel said: "We will do anything and everything to allow Israel to continue in existence."

If you can understand why we say "never again" you will than understand the "we will do anything"

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WMD's will be found whether they're currently there or not.

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au1929 wrote:

Frank Apisa
Quote:

I have debated many Israelis -- and Jews who support Israel -- over the years -- and I cannot tell you how many times the Israeli or Jew supporting Israel said: "We will do anything and everything to allow Israel to continue in existence."

If you can understand why we say "never again" you will than understand the "we will do anything"

COMMENT:

I'm glad you agree, au.

But that means you agree that Israel, if needs be, would use terrorism to get its way.

That was my point.

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frank.
No need for terrorism they would use there armed forces as needed. I don't call that terrorism.

Staging attacks whose only purpose is to kill civilians, that is terrorism

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So the deaths of palestinian civilians are.....what?

Because they die at a rate of 10 to 1 compared to Israelis.

By that definition Israel is a terrorist state.

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Oh how silly of me. Those deaths are collateral damage.

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au1929 wrote:

frank.
No need for terrorism they would use there armed forces as needed. I don't call that terrorism.

Staging attacks whose only purpose is to kill civilians, that is terrorism

COMMENT:

We agreed just a few minutes ago that the would use "anything and everything."

Now you are limiting it to "armed forces as needed."

Anything and everything includes terrorism -- whether as a last resort or not.

Frankly, I think Israel already is using its armed forces in a terroristic way. You may disagree with that -- or you may say that the terrorism is justified, but...

In many case, if you agree to "anything and everything" -- you are agreeing that they would use terrorism if needed.

Unfortunately, many Palestinians already are at that point.

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Frank
Just one more subject we will never agree on. As for the Israeli's using terrorism. Tell me when did they deliberately target civilians? Further all their attacks have been retaliatory and aimed at the perpetrators of terrorist actions. Whereas the Palestinians deliberately an indiscriminately attack the civilian population. Men,women and children.

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I do not agree at all with the provocation-and-response endless circle in which the Palestinians and Israelis are engaged, but I gotta go with Au and the others of that mind here ... Israel causes civilian casualties incidental to and unintended by its response to Palestinian provocation which consists entirely of attacks upon civilians. Big moral and ethical difference there, to my mind. This is not to say either side is right; just that the Palestinians are more wrong than are the Israelis, if quantification could matter. Neither are right, both are wrong. Neither appears at all interested in proactively seeking peace and tolerance. A pox on both their houses, as far as I'm concerned.

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Me too! I gotta bend with the Israeli's on this one by a small margin. They gotta stop them settlements on Palestinian properties. The only way the Palestinians can fight the Isrealis is with suicide bombing. That doesn't make it right. It's the only way they can 'fight' back. Rocks just doesn't equate to automatic machine guns, so they attack civilians. As long as the Israelis keep up with their settlement expansions, the Palestinians are gonna continue with their suicide bombings. They're both at fault. Pox on both! c.i.

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Our forces have now reached the outskirts of Baghdad, and still no sign of the nuclear, chemical and biological Weapons Of Mass Destruction which we have been assured for months by the White House and Downing Street were threatening the West - AND WERE THE ENTIRE JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS WAR and because of which many have given their lives!

Since public execution is not an option, what about IMPEACHMENT?

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au1929 wrote:

Frank
Just one more subject we will never agree on. As for the Israeli's using terrorism. Tell me when did they deliberately target civilians? Further all their attacks have been retaliatory and aimed at the perpetrators of terrorist actions. Whereas the Palestinians deliberately an indiscriminately attack the civilian population. Men,women and children.

COMMENT:

Come on, au. If you agree that Israel will use anything and everything -- you are agreeing that they would use terrorism.

That does not mean they have already -- although I think they have used tactics that could easily be deemed as terroristic.

But the main point is that if you agree that they will use anything and everything -- then you are agreeing that they would use terrorism if it became necessary.

Now to the other point: Sending tanks and bulldozers into heavily populated areas are going to cause civilian deaths. Israel has been doing that -- and there seems to be little doubt that Israel has killed many, many more Palestinian civilians than Palestinians have killed Israelis.

If that is not terrorism in your mind, I suggest you have simply closed your mind to the reality of the situation.

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Frank.
The use of tactics which are only aimed at a civilian population with the purpose of killing and maiming as many innocent civilians as possible is terrorism. That is the Palestinian credo. The Israeli's do not use nor would the ever employ such methods. The Israeli's are only acting in self defense trying to root out the terrorists who hide among the civilian population. The Arab world it seems are great believers in human shields.
As for the use of any thing and everything in their defense the Israeli's would never send suicide bombers to blow up busses, dance halls and etc. Your definition of everything and anything in defense of Israel is fallacious.

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The recent conversation here leads me to ask a question.

How is the Palestinian/Israel situ different from the IRA/Brit situ?
I often see the people siding with Palestine's 'freedom fighters' decrying the IRA's attempt to free themselves from Brit oppression...

Seems to me they are identical.

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Belfast=Jerusalem very interesting.

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Speak on it, much-haired one!
I have followed you con mucho gusto!

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I have so little knowledge, only observation. In Belfast we seem to see a protestant population with political/economic power vested by the foreign authority in conflict with an adjacent population of minority power. the latent conflict appears to be centered on economic parity while the manifest conflict is centered on religious domination.

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Where Are All The W.M.D.s?

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