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Where Are All The W.M.D.s?

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 07:56 pm
nimh wrote:
McG, I think probably partly because it's not my President and not my Secretary of State, I have a bit of a different take on that. Also because I dont have the same automatic trust in my (or anyone's) country's authorities as you have. One thing that strengthens me in my lack of a priori trust is that they often themselves disagree.

If the American president and the British PM and the Australian whatever-it-is-they-have say war is necessary right now, because Saddam might any moment pass on WMD to terrorrists who are going to use them to attack the West -- but the German, French, Finnish, Austrian, Greek, Belgian, etc presidents and PMs, the UN Secretary-General and the weapon inspectors themselves all say such immediate threat is not proven at all, and therefore continued inspections rather than war are the answer - well, then I can't easily say, like you do, I'd better trust the authorities on the matter, because which of these two groups are the authorities that I can assume to know best?

Which leaves me to make my own conlusions, in the end ... and, as you'll have gathered, they are different from yours. No offence ;-).


Offence? No offence here. It is good we can disagree civily while we each make our cases.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 09:11 am
Actually, to add to my comments up there a ways about the Australian Prime Minister, the war and motives for joining it etc., I forgot what may be an important point. He was actually in New York/Washington (not sure which city on the day) on September 11th 2001. I suspect - all cynicism aside - that this had a pretty strong emotional effect on him and his feelings about showing solidarity with the US Government. he is a deeply conservative man, and would have personal sympathy for Bush for this reason.

This very day, after having apparently commented in the last day or two about some mobile thingies looking like the elusive bio factories, he was asked in parliament for his comments about it no longer looking as though that is the case.

The opposition has been in disarray, fighting an internal leadership battle. That was resolved today - and the fur on this issue may begin to fly now. I hope so. It is no small decision to send troops to a war - it ought to be made on a very solid factual basis, I believe.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 09:37 am
And to think that this country will use bombs to "shock and awe" on lies and innuendos is a crime to humanity of the worst kind. c.i.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 09:50 am
To be honest, CI, I thought from the get-go that the use of the term "shock and awe" indicated an INTENTION to commit whatever breach of international and moral law they wanted to. Like murderers who leave a little trail on purpose because they kind of want to be caught, brag on their technique....
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 10:24 am
The Dog Ate My WMDs by William Rivers Pitt
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/061303A.shtml
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 10:58 am
The fact these bastards lied and distorted in order to get their war disgusts me.

The fact so many Americans want to excuse and rationalize the lies and distortions makes me want to retch.

Ben Franklin said: You have a Republic, if you can keep it.

Obviously there are Americans who don't have the time or inclination to worry about abuse of our nation.
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Booman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 12:04 pm
" I have seen the enemy, and it is us"-Pogo(?)

...I don't know if the orgin of that quote is really the comic strip. I suspect not, but it's the truth, and I would like to add to it:

.............."And the weopon is apathy"
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 12:47 pm
As a lifelong Pogo fan, I can tell you that it originated with the strip when it covered the Jack Acid Society.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 02:06 pm
PRESIDENT RELEASES NEWLY RECOVERED WARZONE DOCUMENTS OFFERING INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF OF IRAQI ACQUISITION OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
Statement by the President

THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Today, I'm taking just a few minutes off from scarfing down pork rinds at my daddy's 79th birthday party to bring glorious news to the American people. After months and months of fruitlessly scouring the charred carcass of Iraq for some shred of evidence to justify my killing more innocent civilians than died on 9/11, I'm pleased to say that documents newly recovered from Saddam bin Hussein's safe prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this nefarious evildoer was actively scheming with rogue regimes to acquire vast quantities of WMDs. And while I have not had an opportunity to examine the papers myself, I have the utmost faith in the competence of those persons in the Central Intelligence Agency to whom I delegated the task of covering my ass. Therefore, I have ordered these documents to be released immediately. I trust that they will appease the crybaby liberal news media, and effectively debunk any absurd speculation about my Administration and the DoD's Constitutionally suspect Intelligence Office having bullied Georgie Peorgie Tenet and his chubby office jockeys into falsifying reports of Iraqi WMDs just so I could settle a family score. Thank you. EXHIBIT A
EXHIBIT B



http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/images/wmd-receipt1.jpghttp://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/images/wmd-receipt2.jpg
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 02:22 pm
From Bartlett's book of Quotations:

O. H. Perry

We have met the enemy, and they are ours.




Walt Kelly (Pogo)

We have met the enemy, and he is us.




Sir Thomas Browne

But how shall we expect charity towards others, when we are uncharitable to ourselves? Charity begins at home, is the voice of the world; yet is every man his greatest enemy, and, as it were, his own executioner?
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Booman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 05:44 pm
Thanks Edgar , and Frank. That Walt Kelly, had to be one of the heaviest comic strip writers, ever.... And Sir Thomas, reminds me of a conclusion, I came to myself. "I feel like the best things that happen to me, are by the grace of God, and all the bad things can be traced back to something, I did."
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 05:46 pm
http://www.moveon.org/distortion/
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2003 07:01 am
link


Quote:
ELIZABETH, N.J. ?- President Bush, visiting a frozen pasta business in New Jersey on Monday to tout the tax cut passed last month, also took the opportunity to express his impatience with nagging criticism over the war against Iraq.

"This nation acted to a threat from the dictator of Iraq. Now, there are some who would like to rewrite history ?- 'revisionist historians' is what I like to call them," Bush said.

According to Bush, the revisionists are those who have called into question whether the war was justified inasmuch as the United States has not yet found weapons of mass destruction the president and others cited as one of the key reasons for going to war.

A senior advisor said Bush decided it was "time to go on the offensive" to head off the "growing movement over 'Where are the weapons?'"

"Congress has been a full partner [on the issue] going back a decade and has received information both in open and closed session," the aide said. "Go back to the speeches of 1998. Look at ... how many lawmakers said Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction. Do they think since the [United Nations] inspectors left, Saddam got rid of that?"

While Bush did not discuss the details of the hunt for weapons of mass destruction, the administration is stepping up efforts to find them, sending to Iraq former U.N. weapons inspector David Kay (search), now a special adviser to the CIA.

Kay will devise a strategy to search for such weapons and will work hand-in-hand with the 1,300-member military force known as the Iraq Survey Group (search), which is in charge of finding the weapons.

Meanwhile, critics continue to charge the intelligence community exaggerated its information on Iraq.

"If there was shading by the intelligence community to try to support what it perceived to be the policy of the administration or for whatever reason, it would endanger our security," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Members of the Senate Intelligence Committee (search) announced this weekend that it will investigate charges of exaggerated intelligence. The House Intelligence panel has already announced its own inquiry. Hearings, probably behind closed doors, will include questioning of intelligence analysts about their work.

Though the aide said the president does not resent the idea of a congressional investigation, Bush asserted that the United States went to war to respond to a very real threat.

"Saddam Hussein was a threat to America and the free world in '91, in '98, in 2003. He continually ignored the demands of the free world, so the United States and friends and allies acted," Bush said. "And this is for certain: Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States and our friends and allies."

Centrist Democrats of the Democratic Leadership Council (search), who quibble with the president on many fronts, this time agree with Bush, saying the hunt for weapons of mass destruction is not cause for argument.

"If the Bush administration was wrong about Saddam's WMD program, so, too, was just about everybody else, including U.N. inspectors, the French, the Germans, the Russians and the Chinese, all of whom accepted prior evidence of such a program is beyond doubt," the DLC said in a statement.

Evidence or no evidence, many familiar with the intelligence say they believe Saddam voluntarily gave up his weapons after inspectors left in 1998.

"Some are suggesting, certainly, that he destroyed the weapons after 1998 or maybe even sooner," Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., ranking member of the House intelligence Committee, told Fox News. "It's just counterintuitive that he would have done that. His would have been the greatest intelligence hoax of all time, fooling every intelligence agency, three presidents, five secretaries of defense and the entire world into thinking he still had the weapons."

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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2003 07:11 am
Frank
I love your new avatar ;-)
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2003 07:40 am
The opposition in Australia have called for a parliamentary inquiry into the reliability of Australia's intelligence gathering prior to the decision to join the attack on Iraq. This has, it seems, arisen out of the continuing failure to find evidence of WOMD.

I was hearing it on the radio - have not checked papers.

The opposition maintained the view that Australia should not join any non-UN sanctioned attack in the period leading up to, and during, the war.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2003 08:07 am
Quote:
"This nation acted to a threat from the dictator of Iraq. Now, there are some who would like to rewrite history ?- 'revisionist historians' is what I like to call them," Bush said.
Original thinker, this boy.

Quote:
"And this is for certain: Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States and our friends and allies."
Certainty...such a comforting commodity in this big confusing world filled with Grecians and Kosovarians and revisionist thinkers and people who read books.

I love george. I love fox news. I love McG. I love Canada - clearly, the greatest nation on earth.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2003 08:16 am
Feelin' the love!
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2003 08:17 am
blatham
Are you being sarcastic?
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2003 08:26 am
"...President Bush, visiting a frozen pasta business in New Jersey on Monday to tout..." Don't ask me why, but that phrase has me rolling on the floor. I mean, how many presidents do you know who have touted in a frozen pasta business, hmmm? Must be something in the water... Then I must contest Blatham's contention that Canada is the greatest nation on earth. Period. Michael Medved (a brilliant conservative commentator, talk show host*) says the US is, and furthermore it's the greatest nation ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH. Take that you white and brown landscape Canadians...

*Medved thinks he is, anyway. If he's right god is some sort of blind idiot, because from her distance, the earth is blue, and from our distance it sure is losing its green....
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2003 08:31 am
Patriotism - what you have instead of thinking.
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