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Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

 
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 09:10 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
When talking about the bible, the term common sense only becomes an oxymoron. One would come to the same conclusion with any comic book.


When talking to you, the term common sense is absent altogether. One would come to that conclusion based on your inability to hold an adult conversation. It is my opinion, that the only reason you come on these threads is to provoke and frustrate, or...to keep your post count high. Almost 30,000 posts and most of what I have seen have no substance or facts.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 09:14 pm
Hi Intrepid, If I don't make sense, why do you keep reading my posts? hearty har har....
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 09:32 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Hi Intrepid, If I don't make sense, why do you keep reading my posts? hearty har har....

Probably for the same reason I do. We are hoping and praying that once, just once you will back up something, answer a question, stop making fun of...

You can't even recognize when someone is trying to help you and give you the benefit of a doubt.

Intrepid did not say you don't make sense. Intrepid implied you have no common sense and he has gathered that through what you post.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 09:35 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Hi Intrepid, If I don't make sense, why do you keep reading my posts? hearty har har....


hearty har har ??????? Point made.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 09:36 pm
Intrepid, You make me laugh. hearty har har....
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 09:42 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Intrepid, You make me laugh. hearty har har....


Well, I am happy that you are so easily amused. I do, however, find it sad that a grown man who says he has worked in management most of his life and now travels the world has such a limited vocabulary and an apparent inability to form a cohesive sentence.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 10:01 pm
Isn't it amazing how much I've accomplished with such limited language skills? I'm the one most surprised by it all! LOL
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 10:20 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Isn't it amazing how much I've accomplished with such limited language skills? I'm the one most surprised by it all! LOL

C.I.,

Just what is with you? Are you really like this or are you just playing games?
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 01:50 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Intrepid, You make me laugh. hearty har har....
CI you are one to tango with but you are a bad dancer....
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 01:52 am
Where is Frank, on a berserk?
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Implicator
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 06:07 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
I didn't see a sentence before the verse that said, the following word of god is to be taken as a mytaphor.


Funny, that ... just like any work of literature, the Bible does not announce it's metaphors with a disclaimer.

Just keep digging ...

I
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 07:08 am
The Bible is a revealed text - I read that somewhere. I also read that interpretation of the Bible - and some other sacred revealed texts - is carried out by a process called hermeneutics.

Here is one link hermeneutics

I can't tell you if it's useful or accurate or whatever and the only reason I know the word is that I had to read Habermas in my graduate studies. Note - I don't claim to understand hermeneutics or Habermas.

Anyway for what it's worth.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 08:18 am
goodfielder wrote:
The Bible is a revealed text - I read that somewhere. I also read that interpretation of the Bible - and some other sacred revealed texts - is carried out by a process called hermeneutics.

Here is one link hermeneutics

I can't tell you if it's useful or accurate or whatever and the only reason I know the word is that I had to read Habermas in my graduate studies. Note - I don't claim to understand hermeneutics or Habermas.

Anyway for what it's worth.


You are correct, and it is a discipline based on many factors, not the least of which involves a compilation of contributions from people with expertise in ancient languages, geoology, archeology, anthropology, and ancient history who have contributed to the ever-growing body of knowledge related to the Bible and the culture and history surrounding it. And most of those experts who have participated in the research become increasingly convinced of the reliability of the Biblical scriptures provided they are considered within their intent.

The experts have mostly concluded that the Bible is a compilation of myriad manuscripts, edited together with more attention to content than to chronological order. In most cases it must be read through the prism of intent with all the considerations of the perceptions of the people of that time and with attention to what is metaphor, symbolism, poetry, allegory, prophecy, instruction, and history. Attempt to correlate the significance of the words and imagery then with what the same words and imagery would mean now, and you'll get it wrong much more than you'll get it right.

There is a continuous theme throughout the Old Testament, however, that Christians believe culminates in the events of the New Testament. The theme is Creation, Sin, Judgment, Redemption, Reconciliation with God. Once the Bible scholar learns to put the Old Testament into its chronological order--no small task that--the theme can be seen occurring again and again.

In the editing process, duplicate manuscripts were incorporated into the edited text creating 'parallel passages'. Sometimes these occur almost side by side and sometimes they are widely separated in the final collection of writings. And as you always have with eye witness accounts, there will be differences in recollections of the actual events. These result in what skeptics and anti-religion types like to call 'contradictions', but when put into perspective, they reflect only differences in perceptions. This phenomenon occurred both in the Old and New Testaments.

When I teach this, I use the example of Kennedy's assassination. Those old enough to clearly remember that event all remember it vividly--where they were, who they were with, and the imagery of the television pictures are still in our heads. Each one of us could sit down and write a fairly decent mini history of that terrible week. And each of us would remember different things, or would remember the same things somewhat differently or in a different order. So if somebody gathered up all our collective manuscripts and knit them together into one, there would be some parallel accounts that would be portrayed as different events; there would be differences in chronology. Some would remember one thing that another would have left out. There would be some contradictions. Would this discredit the whole work? Not at all so long as the reader is aware that the contributions came from many, each including his/her own experience into the whole.

In the Old Testament you read of a God that the people understood to be an often angry, vindictive, militant, and demanding God. And despite their fear and often attempted rebellions, they understood that this God was the source of life and all of Creation and that it was their sin, not God, that prevented Creation from remaining perfect and thwarted the perfect existence God intended for all. In the New Testament, in the person of Jesus, the people learned that God was not the angry, vindictive, militant God they once presumed, and while they still may have poorly understood him, the emphasis changed to obedience out of love rather than fear.

Despite the efforts of the anti-religious to discredit it in order to justify their own disbelief, it remains a fact that the Bible has been comfort and inspiration to untold millions who know the words are just words, until God speaks through them; thus, the inspired Word of God.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 09:39 am
Foxfyre,
You have brought some sanity to this thread.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 09:55 am
http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/specool.gif
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 11:24 am
Very good, Foxfyre.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 11:31 am
I agree with most of what Foxfyre has to say and it was very eloquently presented... I must though respectfully take up some issue...

There is this scripture...

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God [God Breathed], and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Comment:
Now if people were to recall the assassination of Kennedy God may not really play any part in the recollection. It would most likely be an account if not for the most part written only by men and woman.

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost

Comment:
These "holy" men and women had varying amounts of holy spirit (ghost) and depending on this amount, it dictated how clearly a picture they were able to see of God and his will. The Bible is "inspired by God" thus it is called the "Holy" Bible. The words "inspired by God" are the words "God Breathed"... And the scripture is careful to use the word "All"... All scripture is "God breathed". So the question becomes did God breathe and the Bible simply appear or did God take a lifeless shell of a book and breathe life into it? Did God in knowing what people would recall and write ahead of time chose the authors and the authors used their vocabularies to record events as God approved. Again I come back to the word "all" scripture... Is that all scripture "without exception" or all scripture "with distinction"? An account of Kennedy's assassination would not necessarily have the seal of the divine stamped upon it.

Ps 138:2
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Comment:
To magnify the word above one's name is like putting your signature at the bottom of a check. It is endorsing it's integrity.

Ps 12:6
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Comment:
The words of the lord are pure words... Can people have pure words on their own account? I think the divinity of the scriptures is the issue. And "the word" became flesh and dwelt among us... let there be light [logos].

God who is almighty and a creator of all is also concerned with how he relates to his creation (and how we relate to others). God has chosen his word, astronomy, angels, prophets, kings, priests etc... to be his messengers. Yet in God's foreknowledge God ultimately knew what they would say.

...that bit about Frank going berserk... I only said that trying to provoke a response... I certainly hope he is alright. I would be very sad if he were taken ill or other, and in his absence I will most certainly say a heart felt prayer for him...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2005 03:59 pm
RexRed wrote:
I agree with most of what Foxfyre has to say and it was very eloquently presented... I must though respectfully take up some issue...

There is this scripture...

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God [God Breathed], and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Comment:
Now if people were to recall the assassination of Kennedy God may not really play any part in the recollection. It would most likely be an account if not for the most part written only by men and woman.

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost

Comment:
These "holy" men and women had varying amounts of holy spirit (ghost) and depending on this amount, it dictated how clearly a picture they were able to see of God and his will. The Bible is "inspired by God" thus it is called the "Holy" Bible. The words "inspired by God" are the words "God Breathed"... And the scripture is careful to use the word "All"... All scripture is "God breathed". So the question becomes did God breathe and the Bible simply appear or did God take a lifeless shell of a book and breathe life into it? Did God in knowing what people would recall and write ahead of time chose the authors and the authors used their vocabularies to record events as God approved. Again I come back to the word "all" scripture... Is that all scripture "without exception" or all scripture "with distinction"? An account of Kennedy's assassination would not necessarily have the seal of the divine stamped upon it.

Ps 138:2
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Comment:
To magnify the word above one's name is like putting your signature at the bottom of a check. It is endorsing it's integrity.

Ps 12:6
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Comment:
The words of the lord are pure words... Can people have pure words on their own account? I think the divinity of the scriptures is the issue. And "the word" became flesh and dwelt among us... let there be light [logos].

God who is almighty and a creator of all is also concerned with how he relates to his creation (and how we relate to others). God has chosen his word, astronomy, angels, prophets, kings, priests etc... to be his messengers. Yet in God's foreknowledge God ultimately knew what they would say.

...that bit about Frank going berserk... I only said that trying to provoke a response... I certainly hope he is alright. I would be very sad if he were taken ill or other, and in his absence I will most certainly say a heart felt prayer for him...


I have no quarrel with your take on it, Rex, though I see some interpretations somewhat differently. As the Apostle Paul said (paraphrased), we see now through a glass darkly, but the time will come when we will be face to face with the whole picture in crystal clarity. Each of us who allows God to lead will be led into new understandings and new truths. In the end, we'll all get to the same place and will be able to compare notes. Now THAT will be fun. Smile
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2005 05:16 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Quote:
In the end, we'll all get to the same place and will be able to compare notes. Now THAT will be fun.


Sadly, not all.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2005 06:35 am
Intrepid wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Quote:
In the end, we'll all get to the same place and will be able to compare notes. Now THAT will be fun.


Sadly, not all.


There always seems to be someone around who's very willing to insert that caveat. I think their cocksureness about their place in heaven sort of grates a lot of people.
0 Replies
 
 

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