Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Grinning at Momma and Intrepid and wondering if maybe the current situation is what a modified version of that verse about casting pearls was all about? Smile

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Foxfyre, yes, it probably is. But, we must remember those out there that are really looking for answers.

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I know, Momma, I know. It's kind of like debating whether to stick a buck in the beggar's cup. You know there is a 99% percent chance he'll just use it for booze and further damage himself, but you can't get past the 1% chance that you might pass up a genuinely hungry man.

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Exactly. And that's what we hae to remember. It's that 1% chance that makes all the difference!

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dyslexia wrote:

and here we go with the problem "interpretation" of the bible.

Why is this a problem, do you think?

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It's no wonder we have zillions of protestant sects each with their very own "I have the right interpretation" everyone else just doesn't understand.

No wonder at all, actually. Two different people (regardless of their beliefs) are bound to have two different impressions of any document of any type. Doesn't say anything about the truth of the document, of course; it only speaks of a person's ability to know what the author was saying.

Smile

I

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Foxfyre- The law that some Christians are attempting to change are based on their religious tenets. Christians are attempting to deprive ALL women over soverenity over their bodies. If you think about it, the stand on abortion is simply another facet of the Christian edicts on the control of women.

All Abrahamic religions appear to have rules which describe the role of women and reproduction. What these religions have in common is that in all three, the woman is the "second sex".

Consider this. The Islamic faith has many religious rules about the roles of women. I daresay that the stance of the fundamentalist Taliban is little different in its attitude towards women than the Judeo-Christian tradition. The concept is exactly the same. IMO, it is all a matter of degree.

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Miniscule degree at that. I would further opine that most protestants make the Taliban seem like radical feminists.

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First you state:

Phoenix32890 wrote:

Foxfyre- The law that some Christians are attempting to change are based on their religious tenets.

... and then:

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Christians are attempting to deprive ALL women over soverenity over their bodies.

You mean some Christians, right?

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If you think about it, the stand on abortion is simply another facet of the Christian edicts on the control of women.[/color]

Is it possible, do you think, that the motivation of some of the Christians in question is not at all about control over women, but rather a concern for the unborn child? Or do you think that is all just a smokescreen to gain control?

I

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Foxfyre wrote:

Grinning at Momma and Intrepid and wondering if maybe the current situation is what a modified version of that verse about casting pearls was all about?

I think that your REAL feelings show through, loud and clear, on that post.

Foxfyre wrote:

I know, Momma, I know. It's kind of like debating whether to stick a buck in the beggar's cup. You know there is a 99% percent chance he'll just use it for booze and further damage himself, but you can't get past the 1% chance that you might pass up a genuinely hungry man.

Momma wrote:

Exactly. And that's what we hae to remember. It's that 1% chance that makes all the difference!

So, apparently what you folks want is not a real discussion about issues, with give and take, and real thought. It appears to me that your agenda is searching for that 1%.

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Implicator wrote:

You mean some Christians, right?

You are right. I WAS guilty this time of painting with a broad brush. Sorry!

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Phoenix,

No! You misunderstand. There have been many times that I have wanted to quit participating in these threads, yes. But, because of those such as you and yes, those out there just watching and not posting, I stay. As long as someone wants to discuss the issues civilly I will hang in there.

Sometimes I just have to remind myself that it is those that WANT the discussions that I should stay for. I am so sorry if I misrepresented that in my statement about the 1%.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Foxfyre- The law that some Christians are attempting to change are based on their religious tenets. Christians are attempting to deprive ALL women over soverenity over their bodies. If you think about it, the stand on abortion is simply another facet of the Christian edicts on the control of women.

Well now Phoenix, are you saying that because some Christians wish to abolish abortion in entirety that these same Christians or even all Christians should be denied a voice in their government? And if the stand on abortion is simply another 'facet of Christian edicts', how do you account for the prolife athiests out there? I know you don't think that everybody you disagree with should be banned from politics. I am pretty certain you don't think Christians you disagree with should be banned from politics. But just singling out Christians for rebuke, here, could be interpreted as a kind of prejudice don't you think?

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All Abrahamic religions appear to have rules which describe the role of women and reproduction. What these religions have in common is that in all three, the woman is the "second sex".

Most Jews and most Christians teach and believe that life begins at conception. They don't give civil authorities the right to determine right and wrong, but make their own distinctions about what is or is not moral. Based on your previous posts in this thread, I would guess that the more compelling point of morality that you see is in the woman's right to have an abortion. Most Christians and Jews see the sanctity of life as encompassing both the mother and the unborn and that both should be given equal weight in considerations of that kind. You aren't required to share their view. But to suggest that it is wrong for Christians and Jews to lobby for what they believe to be morally right again suggests a kind of prejudice as well as a double standard in the matter of rights.

Islam stands alone in relegating women to second class status. Neither Christians nor Jews do that.

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Consider this. The Islamic faith has many religious rules about the roles of women. I daresay that the stance of the fundamentalist Taliban is little different in its attitude towards women than the Judeo-Christian tradition. The concept is exactly the same. IMO, it is all a matter of degree.

While I hold you in high regard, Phoenix, I daresay that in this opinion of ours, you daresay what is conclusively false.

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Implicator wrote:

Is it possible, do you think, that the motivation of some of the Christians in question is not at all about control over women, but rather a concern for the unborn child? Or do you think that is all just a smokescreen to gain control?

I think that there are sincere Christians who believe that an abortion is taking the life from an innocent child. I can respect that view, although I disagree with it. For some though, the entire issue of abortion (and many others) are based on the Abrahamic traditions of keeping women controlled by and subservient to men.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Grinning at Momma and Intrepid and wondering if maybe the current situation is what a modified version of that verse about casting pearls was all about?

I think that your REAL feelings show through, loud and clear, on that post.

So, apparently what you folks want is not a real discussion about issues, with give and take, and real thought. It appears to me that your agenda is searching for that 1%.

You think my real feelings shine through about those who just snipe at any Christian value and refuse to discuss any issue? Yes. Guilty as charged.

Do I include you among that group? No I do not.

Do I enjoy a real discussion about these things though? Yes I do. What have I said or implied or done that would make you think that I did not?

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Grinning at Momma and Intrepid and wondering if maybe the current situation is what a modified version of that verse about casting pearls was all about?

Phoenix replied:

Quote:

I think that your REAL feelings show through, loud and clear, on that post.

I would be curious as to what you think Foxfyre meant by that statement.

Foxfyre wrote:
I know, Momma, I know. It's kind of like debating whether to stick a buck in the beggar's cup. You know there is a 99% percent chance he'll just use it for booze and further damage himself, but you can't get past the 1% chance that you might pass up a genuinely hungry man.

Momma wrote:
Exactly. And that's what we hae to remember. It's that 1% chance that makes all the difference!

Phoenix wrote:

Quote:
So, apparently what you folks want is not a real discussion about issues, with give and take, and real thought. It appears to me that your agenda is searching for that 1%.

We don't want the 1% to be overlooked. We have no problem dealing with the 99%.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Implicator wrote:
Is it possible, do you think, that the motivation of some of the Christians in question is not at all about control over women, but rather a concern for the unborn child? Or do you think that is all just a smokescreen to gain control?

I think that there are sincere Christians who believe that an abortion is taking the life from an innocent child. I can respect that view, although I disagree with it. For some though, the entire issue of abortion (and many others) are based on the Abrahamic traditions of keeping women controlled by and subservient to men.

The former fits the description of every Christian I have ever met who opposes abortion. That is to say, my perception of every Christian I have ever met, who opposes abortion, is that their reason is based entirely on concern for the unborn.

I won't say there aren't others whose agenda is simply control - I just haven't personally met any who I perceived to have this agenda.

Different perceptions, I guess.

I

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That's the thing, Implicator. I doubt any two of us Christians agree on every single thing, but a majority of us might hang together on a particular issue. So it is with the non-religious or differently-religious. We each have our own world view of what is and is not ethical, morally correct, or edifying for humankind, and these frequently differ, yet a majority of any group might align on issues such as religious symbols or abortion.

Still other issues (gun control, taxes, entitlements, etc.) you can't pin down any probability based on a person's religious orientation.

Yet, if there should be tolerance for anything, there should be tolerance for everybody having a right to voice their opinons, preferences, and to lobby their elected representatives to vote a certain way on any given issue.

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and there should be a barrier to the inflicition of mob rule.

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Implicator wrote:

Phoenix32890 wrote:
Implicator wrote:
Is it possible, do you think, that the motivation of some of the Christians in question is not at all about control over women, but rather a concern for the unborn child? Or do you think that is all just a smokescreen to gain control?

I think that there are sincere Christians who believe that an abortion is taking the life from an innocent child. I can respect that view, although I disagree with it. For some though, the entire issue of abortion (and many others) are based on the Abrahamic traditions of keeping women controlled by and subservient to men.

The former fits the description of every Christian I have ever met who opposes abortion. That is to say, my perception of every Christian I have ever met, who opposes abortion, is that their reason is based entirely on concern for the unborn.

I won't say there aren't others whose agenda is simply control - I just haven't personally met any who I perceived to have this agenda.

Different perceptions, I guess.

I

I also agree with the definition put forth. The only reason that I am familiar with is the concern for the unborn.

The perception of keeping women controlled is foreign to anything that I know, or have experienced. Are there hard facts and statistics to support this, or is this simply an opinion born of intolerance?

Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

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