Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

What are you guys talking about here? I don't have the time to read 128 pages.

Fill me in.

Actually...I can do it.

Implicator and Intrepid think they can show scenes from the Bible where the god is not threatening, punishing, killing, or asking others to kill.

So far they have offered three passages...

...one showing the god making a 90 year old woman pregnant...

...one showing the god punishing every last human that will ever live on this planet...

...and one showing the god drowning almost every human and every animal onl the planet.

I have rejected the last two for reasons that should be apparent to you without further explanation.

Well, Frank, I have to agree with you. The God of the Old Testament was truly a violent entity. Wiped out women, kids, animals, everything.

We have to remember that humans wrote and rewrote the books of the bible many times and much has gotten lost in the translation. Also, there are a lot of books that have never been included in the KJ Bible. For some reason. Probably because they did not support the Trinity.

Adam and Eve (symbolic in my mind, like most of the Bible) supposedly knew not to eat of the 'tree of knowledge' but did anyway. At least, God warned them not to eat any fruit. So they did and the whole human race suffers and dies because of it for eternity. Or until global warming ends it all. But, I thought Jesus died for our sins? Then, following that logic, doesn't that mean that if we are now sinless, we shouldn't die?

I recall a passage in the Bible (I can find it if you like) where people carrying the Ark were actually killed on the spot because they did not carry it correctly. They were zapped by whatever electrical current the Ark generated. (God was supposed to reside inside).

The Old Testament was supposed to be nailed to the cross, so to speak, when Jesus died. Much of it is historical and correct as far as battles, empires, etc. but it certainly does not show a kind, loving God. The New Testament (unless you are Jewish) is the book that Christians should be following. If so, Jesus's admonition to turn the other cheek, love one another, esp. your enemies, etc. has certainly been lost upon the brethren. Esp. Bush, who seem to relish killing. So to answer your question, no, Jesus did not advocate killing at all, therefore we should not be having wars where we have to have victories. Ask yourself -who would Jesus bomb? Churches are attempting to brainwash people into thinking that Bush is right, war is good, (check out America21 online where pastors are being recruited for Bush and a 'safer (haha) America). However, old men like to send young men off to be killled. It has always been thus and I don't see that man has evolved since the beginning of time as far as war/killing. People who point to the Bible and say 'god did plenty of killing' are trying to justify their actions. God hasn't spoken to Bush or anyone else and told them to kill anyone. Too bad more 'christians' don't actually read the Bible and see for themselves, rather than having it spoonfed.

Good thread, Frank. I can see this one going for years!

Even if you are sinless, and you happend to be at the wrong place at the wrong time......BAM! you're gone.

Frank Apisa wrote:


There you go. Since it is the only one that you knew about, it makes it the only one possible. I can't type any more...l a u g h i n g too hard

I'm waiting for any others you can produce.

I guess there might be more. I suspect there are not...since it is the only one anyone has ever produced in response to this challenge.

Since you have pages and pages of 'em...it should be no problem to produce many.



Perhaps as soon as you stop laughing...you'll get at it.

How are my questions "bait," MA?

God is all loving.

And as a Christian you're supposed to follow god's example, loving even your enemies, and blessing them.

So then, if god is all loving, does he love pedophiles?

Do you as a Christian, loving even your enemies, and blessing them, love pedophiles, and bless them?

Don't forget the title of your thread, Frank, because the question and the issue are the same:



The people inside the city are being offered the same gift of salvation we are offered by God. Neither is much of a bargain. If they surrender (accept salvation) they are enslaved. If they do not surrender (even though they choose this through Free Will) they are condemned to death. Neither the Old Testament bargain nor the New Testament gift offers much to the receivers unless they desire a life as happy slaves.

I have no doubt that those who continue to believe in God or gods or mystic spirits or astrology, the belief that there is some controlling force outside of themselves, are happy. And, no, they are not aware of the fearful situation they are in that we see from our vantage point. This happens a lot in human conditions. Karen Hughes just stood up in front of 800 of the richest, elite women of Saudi Arabia and wondered aloud if they didn't feel deprived in some way because they weren't allowed to drive a car. The Saudi women were incredulous. Why, they asked, would I want to drive a car when I have someone to do it for me now?

Frank is asking here for believers to give up their drivers and do for themselves. I have no quarrel with them living with their irrationality, it is when they attempt to insert that irrationality into laws and science that they run afoul of the real world and we who live in it.

Joe(once a lamb like you)Nation

You are confusing natural death with spiritual death.

You are confusing a fairytale..with divine revelation.

Joe Nation Wrote:



I am happy, yes. A slave, no.

You say the Bible says you are to love your enemies and turn the other cheek. How does your pastor/rev/priest rationalize this in view of what you "Christians" are doing to Iraqis through your so-called "Christian" president? I'd love to hear the reasoning on this one, and I bet Frank would too.

What do you mean what us "Christians" are doing to Iraqis through our so-called "Christian" president?

I suggest you take that up with the President. I support our troops. I don't get involved in the politics of the war.

If about 40% of Americans support the war, I would assume, since America purports itself to be a Christian country, that a good proportion of that 40% would be Christian. Therefore, following that logic, Christians (and I know quite a few in the US who support the war) ARE supporting the war against this false threat of 'terror' perpetrated by American media. It's about oil, mom, and it's pretty transparent for those who watch something on TV other than CNN & Fox. Try BBC once in awhile. It's also about world domination by America, putting puppet governments everywhere they can manage. Everyone seems to know that on the planet, except of course the Americans, whom I know can't peacefully protest anymore. I guess you don't hear about certain things on your TV either. So much for freedom of the press.

You support the troops. But you don't get involved in the politics of war? Oxymoron, since it's the politics of war that sent them there, and politics that provide funding for the VA Hosp. for these kids when they come home with no legs or arms. Sure hope you don't have a kid over there.

I notice you are from Louisiana. Think Bush can rebuild your state and fund his war as well? Without raising taxes? Don't think so.

I'd like to see you quote the Bible, where it says that one should 'turn the other cheek', and 'love one another'. Jesus said that. I notice you ignored that completely. Doesn't fit in with your Christian creed? Hard to rationalize it, I know. It's ok for Bush to sanction killings of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, because he goes to church on Sunday, and God talks to him. Or Satan.

You Americans are the ones who should be talking to Bushbaby and asking him how he can rationalize killing, being a "Christian', and why in hell he even picked on Iraq, since it was the Saudis who bombed the towers on 9/11. (Answer: Bush and binLaden families are friends. They are all in the Carlyle Group. Look it up online). Terrorism has been going on a long, long time. It didn't just start in America on Sept. 11. It began when Cain killed Abel, and for Americans to act like it's the worst thing that ever happened is presumptuous and arrogant. Which is why they were bombed, because they don't have a clue about the rest of the planet, nor do they care. However, the way America is going (downhill) they'll be like Rome in the last days. Enjoy the ride.
Superpower, hahahahahah.

And where, pray tell, are you from?

and why, pray tell, does that matter? you still haven't answered my question: love one another, etc etc....

Well, since you say You Americans, it kind of leads me to believe that you might not be an American?

I have 3 passports. One of them is American.

And the quotes I have referred to, which you are ignoring? Because it would go against supporting troops and killing, wouldn't it? Gotcha between a rock and a hard place.

No, you don't have me between a rock and a hard place. I know my position very well, thank you.

I am asking you directly, are you an American?

Have you ever heard of duel citizenship? That is what I have. Yes, I am American. For the present. My other citizenship could be figured out from my avatar.

I am asking you directly: how does turning the other cheek and love one another translate into killing people? How have 'Christians' managed to twist that one up so much?

Do you think Jesus would bomb Iraq?