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Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Forums: Spirituality And Religion, Religion, Christianity, God, Bible
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 12:16 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote in a reply to Momma Angel:
Quote:
You can be thankful to your god (no problem with that)...and I can just be thankful.


Finally, something that we agree upon, Frank ;-)


It can happen!

I'm glad it did.

If we talk long enough...I suspect you would see that we agree on lots more.

Twisted Evil
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 04:49 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
And frankly, I don't blame you. If I thought for one second that god existed...I'd be needing constant laundry changes I'd be in so much fear.


Powerful words. That conjures up a truly frightening visual.
:wink:
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 04:51 pm
That fear would certainly be different than the "fear" that the Christians on this board have been discussing with you. :-o
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 04:57 pm
Pay attention Intrepid. I have stayed out of the fear debate, however Frank is right. Laughing
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Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 09:07 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Just pointing out that we have one author and two apparent accounts....


Nope. What we have is you missing the point.

"The Jerusalem leaders ultimately agreed that non-Jews had no obligation to obey the laws of Judaism, removing a major obstacle to the conversion of gentiles. "

Men, not God, not Jesus, pulling the strings in the background.
P
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 09:22 pm
mesquite wrote:
Pay attention Intrepid. I have stayed out of the fear debate, however Frank is right. Laughing


That is debatable Laughing
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 05:04 am
Really.

No fear of hell when you fall from grace.
No fear of God's Judgment on the last day.
No fear of being left behind in the Rapture.

No fear of God's wrath.

(Where did the idea of God having wrath come from?)

Isn't God going to punish me for dis-believing?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 09:34 am
Joe,

Why is it when 'we' explain what fear of God means to us, you seem to totally discount it?

Is God going to punish you for 'dis-believing'? Joe, I can only tell you that is between you and God. If you don't believe in God then why would you even ask that question? Christians do not have the authority to condemn anyone.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 09:47 am
MA...a few questions, if I may:


Do you "believe" that your god may choose to reward certain people by giving them "eternal life" in Heaven?

Do you "believe" that your god may choose to punish certain people by placing them in Hell....a place of excruciating, unrelenting torture....for all the rest of eternity?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 09:58 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
MA...a few questions, if I may:


Do you "believe" that your god may choose to reward certain people by giving them "eternal life" in Heaven?

Do you "believe" that your god may choose to punish certain people by placing them in Hell....a place of excruciating, unrelenting torture....for all the rest of eternity?

Frank,

I can answer those questions very easily. God wants everyone to live in eternity with Him. He offers us the gift of salvation. He has given us the free will to accept it or not. Just like with any gift from anyone, you have the choice to accept it or not.

Frank, just as the legal system has consequences for committing crimes, this decision is up to the individual. The legal system doesn't decide who suffers the consequences of breaking the law. Individuals do that for themselves when they commit the crimes.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 07:09 pm
Luke 12:4-5 "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Hmm. ...has the power to throw you into.... there has been some discussion lately over what kind of coercive pressure can be put upon a witness (NYT reporter goes to jail), just what kind of gift comes with the coercive pressure to accept or be condemned?

Isn't that like being made an offer you can't refuse?

Joe(take me off the gift list)Nation
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 08:11 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
Luke 12:4-5 "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Hmm. ...has the power to throw you into.... there has been some discussion lately over what kind of coercive pressure can be put upon a witness (NYT reporter goes to jail), just what kind of gift comes with the coercive pressure to accept or be condemned?

Isn't that like being made an offer you can't refuse?

Joe(take me off the gift list)Nation

No more so than if you decide to break the law when you know the consequences.
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Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 09:17 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
MA...a few questions, if I may:


Do you "believe" that your god may choose to reward certain people by giving them "eternal life" in Heaven?

Do you "believe" that your god may choose to punish certain people by placing them in Hell....a place of excruciating, unrelenting torture....for all the rest of eternity?

Frank,

I can answer those questions very easily. God wants everyone to live in eternity with Him. He offers us the gift of salvation. He has given us the free will to accept it or not. Just like with any gift from anyone, you have the choice to accept it or not.

Frank, just as the legal system has consequences for committing crimes, this decision is up to the individual. The legal system doesn't decide who suffers the consequences of breaking the law. Individuals do that for themselves when they commit the crimes.


It's not a gift if it has a string tied to it. How is it free will when it says " Love me or I'll burn you in Hell." Sounds more like a stalker than a "loving" god.

The legal system does not condemn you to eternal torture for not believing it.

Seems to me hell and the devil were invented by Christians and are part of the "carrot and stick" technique used by Christians to recruit more sheep and help control those that are already part of the "flock".

P
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 09:31 pm
A loving god would never consider eternity in hellfire for anybody - no matter how bad they may have been on earth. Only a demon would consider such penalties. Even civilized people (humans) of this world would not consider such a harsh penalty for any crime committed.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 10:05 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
A loving god would never consider eternity in hellfire for anybody - no matter how bad they may have been on earth. Only a demon would consider such penalties. Even civilized people (humans) of this world would not consider such a harsh penalty for any crime committed.

C.I.,

I don't know about that. I have had some pretty drastic punishments run through my mind for pedophiles.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 11:21 pm
And yet you love them, right?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 11:23 pm
InfraBlue wrote:
And yet you love them, right?

InfraBlue,

Would you care to explain exactly what you mean by that?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Oct, 2005 11:42 pm
c.i. was pointing out the irony of a loving god damning people to eternal hellfire.

Does god love pedophiles? Do you?
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 03:59 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
MA...a few questions, if I may:


Do you "believe" that your god may choose to reward certain people by giving them "eternal life" in Heaven?

Do you "believe" that your god may choose to punish certain people by placing them in Hell....a place of excruciating, unrelenting torture....for all the rest of eternity?

Frank,

I can answer those questions very easily. God wants everyone to live in eternity with Him. He offers us the gift of salvation. He has given us the free will to accept it or not. Just like with any gift from anyone, you have the choice to accept it or not.

Frank, just as the legal system has consequences for committing crimes, this decision is up to the individual. The legal system doesn't decide who suffers the consequences of breaking the law. Individuals do that for themselves when they commit the crimes.


The point of my questions, MA, were in response to your insistence that you are not in fear of the monster.

But here you hve acknowldged that the monster has complete control over your eternity...and can give you what you consider the greatest present ever conceived...or the most horrendous punishment any sick mind has ever devised.

In effect...you are saying that this monster has a gun not only pointed at your head...but at the head of every person on this planet whom you love...

...and you are trying to convince us that you are not in dread of it???

C'mon, MA.

Be real.

Any intelligent, reasonable human being would be in terrifying dread of that monster and that situation.

Either that...or so in dread that severe delusion takes control.

Your choice.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 09:12 am
Infrablue,

I am not taking your bait.

Frank,

So, even if I don't answer a question you are still going to tell me what I think, feel, and believe?
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