Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

I quote the Bible exactly. I never create strawman arguments.

You are a pretender...not truly up to the arguments being made here.

Take the passage I offered at the beginning of this thread...and tell me how to take it "figuratively." You mentioned that it should not be taken literally. I want to know how to take it figuratively.

I may learn something.

I will start by looking at the god's recommendation for how to handle victory in battle:

At Deuteronomy 20:10 the god decrees:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you."

I really don't understand why "you folks" have to criticize, criticize, criticize. You speak of "their handicap...half-ass etc. etc. If you are so against Christianity why do you bother to write about it? That is one thing that Christians, regardless of whether they can quote effectively from the bible, do not do. Belittle, harass and call names to the people that do not agree with us. That alone is a reason to be a Christian... to love our fellow man regardless of what failings they have or what they appear to have. That is not an admission to any failings on the part of any Christian, it is an example of the way things should be. Funny that the same people who hate god and Christians are the same people who usually advocate abortion and war. Is there a correlation? You decide.

Are they good Christians?

The problem is they see themselves as doing God's work when they promote and pass laws that restrict rights rather than expand them, when they restrict science in experimentation, when they propose to equalize the science behind the Theory of Evolution with Creation Science or Intelligent Design or whatever the believers have decided to call it this week. It's the "good" Christians like George Bush who are foisting what they think is Christ's mission onto the world. When are the true Christians going to say "Hey, what are you doing?"

And to those who have said, well Frank keeps bringing up verses that ought not be taken literally in this day and age, the Christian Right seems to be able to pick and chose which verses shall be taken literally, mostly those involving homosexuals, and those that ought not to be, ie. divesting oneself of riches in order to achieve the Kingdom of Heaven. Talk about your "you decide". It's more like the Verse of the Month Club.



Joe(heard it so many times before)Nation

Intrepid wrote

Quote:

I really don't understand why "you folks" have to criticize, criticize, criticize. You speak of "their handicap...half-ass etc. etc. If you are so against Christianity why do you bother to write about it? That is one thing that Christians, regardless of whether they can quote effectively from the bible, do not do. Belittle, harass and call names to the people that do not agree with us. That alone is a reason to be a Christian... to love our fellow man regardless of what failings they have or what they appear to have. That is not an admission to any failings on the part of any Christian, it is an example of the way things should be. Funny that the same people who hate god and Christians are the same people who usually advocate abortion and war. Is there a correlation? You decide.

Sounds good. The problem however is one can not erase the historical record that proves that a lie.

Frank Apisa wrote:

I must have missed the passage where your god sets an expiration date on this advice! Why don't you offer a citation of the passage for consideration.

JOHN 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. "

Recall that the advice you're quoting was given to a theocracy; theocracy is passe (you can read all about it in HEBREWS in the N.T.). The new Christian "nation" is purely spiritual, encompassing all the believers of all times and nations. Our concrete "nation" (what Augustine dubbed the "City of God") will be installed sometime in the future, outside of time.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Even if he "fulfilled the law"...Heaven and Earth have not passed away....And even if he fulfilled the law...does that mean that the law no longer applies?

What He means by "heaven and earth will not pass away" is that the principles summed up in the Decalogue constitute the DNA of the (moral) universe. He's saying that the truth of the Decalogue is, as it were, imprinted into every molecule of the (moral) universe; that it's not merely situational or relative but valid for all time.

Quote:

Diagknowz: "Yes, so why would a "good man" like Jesus worship a god who (according to you) is HORRRRRIBLE?"

Frank: "So answer your own question, if you can."

What I was getting at is the statement by many Liberals that Jesus is a "good man." If He is, then He wouldn't worship the kind of god you think is portrayed in the O.T. So, either He is really off-base, and not a good man after all, or you are off-base.

Frank Apisa wrote:

I quote the Bible exactly. I never create strawman arguments.

You are a pretender...not truly up to the arguments being made here.

Satan quoted the bible exactly when he tempted Jesus. So what?

You misrepresent the meaning of what you quote.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Take the passage I offered at the beginning of this thread...and tell me how to take it "figuratively." You mentioned that it should not be taken literally. I want to know how to take it figuratively.

I may learn something.

Frank, offering his passage wrote:

I will start by looking at the god's recommendation for how to handle victory in battle:

At Deuteronomy 20:10 the god decrees:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you."

Would any of these things have been written; would any of these things have occurred if not for the Edenic rebellion?

These events are a consequence of sin; and they demonstrate God's understanding of sin.

Do you mourn for those who died as a result of these judgements? Would you think it fair that they be given another chance? That's what Jesus' sacrifice is for.

You create the straw man when you assign the guilt for human misery to God and not to his resister, Satan.

We all want to attack the perpetrator of evil. Just make sure you get the name straight.

Why do keep coming back to this?

War happens. Whether it happens because Adam and Eve succumbed to your idiot god's sting or not is not that important.

If you think it shouldn't be taken literally...tell us how to take it figuratively.

You create the straw man when you assign the guilt for human misery to God and not to his resister, Satan.

Christ almighty, Neo...this entire post of yours is nothing but a pitiful strawman. No part of my post is strawman. It is a quotation from your Bible...and I am asking for your opinion on whether or not it is good advice...the kind of advice we Americans should heed?

We all want to attack the perpetrator of evil. Just make sure you get the name straight.

How should we take this idiotic advice figuratively????

Let's look at the big picture. God created man with "free will." In his teachings, he says "don't have any gods before me." If you do, you will roast in hell forever. Some minds are tender enough to believe this BS, and are in fear of roasting in hell forever, so where's the "free will" for these poor saps?
They take up religion believing that's a road to "salvation" and everlasting life, and their brain goes on cruise-control, while the world around them continues to have wars, discrimination, bigotry, rape, killings, robbery, and all that good stuff - and oftentimes christians are the worst offenders. Has religion helped mankind? NOPE.

Let's look at the big picture. God created man with "free will." In his teachings, he says "don't have any gods before me." If you do, you will roast in hell forever. Some minds are tender enough to believe this BS, and are in fear of roasting in hell forever, so where's the "free will" for these poor saps?
They take up religion believing that's a road to "salvation" and everlasting life, and their brain goes on cruise-control, while the world around them continues to have wars, discrimination, bigotry, rape, killings, robbery, and all that good stuff - and oftentimes christians are the worst offenders. Has religion helped mankind? NOPE.

Intrepid wrote

Quote:

I really don't understand why "you folks" have to criticize, criticize, criticize. You speak of "their handicap...half-ass etc. etc. If you are so against Christianity why do you bother to write about it? That is one thing that Christians, regardless of whether they can quote effectively from the bible, do not do. Belittle, harass and call names to the people that do not agree with us. That alone is a reason to be a Christian... to love our fellow man regardless of what failings they have or what they appear to have. That is not an admission to any failings on the part of any Christian, it is an example of the way things should be. Funny that the same people who hate god and Christians are the same people who usually advocate abortion and war. Is there a correlation? You decide.

Sounds good. The problem however is one can not erase the historical record that proves that a lie.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:

Christ almighty, Neo...this entire post of yours is nothing but a pitiful strawman. No part of my post is strawman. It is a quotation from your Bible...and I am asking for your opinion on whether or not it is good advice...the kind of advice we Americans should heed?

Quote:

Neologist replied:
The 'advice' was not given to us 'Americans,'.

Now you are lumping everything in the same pot the same as the others. Do you despise all Germans because of Hitler? Do you desipise all Japanese because of Pearl Harbour? Do you despise all presidents because of George Bush? etc. etc. etc.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Why do keep coming back to this?

War happens. Whether it happens because Adam and Eve succumbed to your idiot god's sting or not is not that important.

It's wasn't a sting; and it is the entire point. Sorry, Frank; but God is not the idiot here.

Frank Apisa wrote:

If you think it shouldn't be taken literally...tell us how to take it figuratively.

Take it literally, Frank. Just keep in mind why it happened.

neologist wrote:

You create the straw man when you assign the guilt for human misery to God and not to his resister, Satan.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Christ almighty, Neo...this entire post of yours is nothing but a pitiful strawman. No part of my post is strawman. It is a quotation from your Bible...and I am asking for your opinion on whether or not it is good advice...the kind of advice we Americans should heed?

The 'advice' was not given to us 'Americans,'.

neologist wrote:

We all want to attack the perpetrator of evil. Just make sure you get the name straight.

Frank Apisa wrote:

How should we take this idiotic advice figuratively????

We should take it for what it is, Frank. Nothing more; nothing less.

You've got too much straw in your cigar, Frank. It's affecting your ability to see the obvious.