Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Several countries have already made laws legallizing gay marriage. I wonder why the christians in those countries have a different take on the bible god over the American christians?

Have you considered that since the law is alread enacted, the "Christians" are obeying the law? People do not lobby their opinions once the law is in place. A Christian has a duty to obey the laws of the land while adhering to God's laws.

Okay...

...so "god's law" is that anyone caught engaging in homosexual paractices should be stoned to death.

Do you adhere to "god's law"...or to the law of the land?

Any thinking, knowledgeable person knows that stoning has not been practiced for eons. Not for homosexuality, not for adultery, not for anytbing. Why do you ask a question that has an obvious answer? Are you that uninformed or are you trying to trick somebody into saying what you want them to say so you can appear to be right and allknowing? You seem to think that we have not progressed in 2000 years. You do not realize that what was written for the priests and particular people of that time continues on to day. You do not see any of this in the 10 commandments. THAT is the law of God. THAT is what Christians adhere to. You seem to throw stones at Christians daily, Frank.... Do you believe in stoning?

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Volunteer for what?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Hey, Frank, do you MA and the other christians will make an effort to legalize slavery again - since that's god's will? Maybe, they'll start with stoning unbelievers.

You would think at some point...one or two of 'em would give up the ghost on this and simply acknowledge that more than likely...this passage is not from any god...not even the pitiful, barbaric god of the Bible.

The best guess that can be made about it is that it is something that ancient Hebrews thought was okay...and they simply put those words into the mouth of a god they invented.

You are an expert at guessing, aren't you Frank.

Great retort, Intrepid. Did you have help with it...or did you think it up by yourself?

Nope, I thunk it upp al bi miself, Frank. I was gonna call you fer advice, but yu was on de fone wid CI at de time.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Volunteer for what?

Yup, you would be perfect for it Laughing

Maybe your mentor, Frank can explain it to you.

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Oh, you mean only the sin of homosexuality has survived these 2000 years? Did your god send a message recently that your selection of god's laws was okay for contemporary times?

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Perfect for what?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Oh, you mean only the sin of homosexuality has survived these 2000 years? Did your god send a message recently that your selection of god's laws was okay for contemporary times?

What the heck are you talking about? Didn't you get the e-mail?
Shocked

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Cicerone Imposter Wrote:

Quote:

Oh, you mean only the sin of homosexuality has survived these 2000 years? Did your god send a message recently that your selection of god's laws was okay for contemporary times?

Cicerone, do you realize that you are not doing one thing to further the stance of your position or is it just your position on the "team" to bait?

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Intrepid wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Several countries have already made laws legallizing gay marriage. I wonder why the christians in those countries have a different take on the bible god over the American christians?

Have you considered that since the law is alread enacted, the "Christians" are obeying the law? People do not lobby their opinions once the law is in place. A Christian has a duty to obey the laws of the land while adhering to God's laws.

Okay...

...so "god's law" is that anyone caught engaging in homosexual paractices should be stoned to death.

Do you adhere to "god's law"...or to the law of the land?

Any thinking, knowledgeable person knows that stoning has not been practiced for eons. Not for homosexuality, not for adultery, not for anytbing. Why do you ask a question that has an obvious answer?

Because it is there!

In any case...your god decrees that death be the penalty for homosexual behavior.

You claim you follow your god's laws.

I was just wondering if you really do...or if you were just trying to build up brownie points with the god.

Don't answer the question if you don't want!

Quote:

Are you that uninformed or are you trying to trick somebody into saying what you want them to say so you can appear to be right and allknowing?

No...and NO. I just asked a very logical question in light of your comment.

Quote:

You seem to think that we have not progressed in 2000 years.

Well...most of you Christians really haven't...at least not on the essentials.

Quote:

You do not realize that what was written for the priests and particular people of that time continues on to day. You do not see any of this in the 10 commandments. THAT is the law of God.

Oh, I see...you pick out just those ten...and the rest can be disregarded.

I forgot about that...although I did allude to it in my post to ci.

What about that first "commandment"? You know...the one that goes:

"I, the Lord, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation, but bestowing mercy, down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments." Deuteronomy 5:6ff

How do you feel about that one, Intrepid? (Or is this another question you are going to pretend should not be asked?)

Quote:

THAT is what Christians adhere to. You seem to throw stones at Christians daily, Frank.... Do you believe in stoning?

No, Intrepid. I do not "believe" in stoning. I am a fan of truth and reality, though.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Cicerone Imposter Wrote:

Quote:
Oh, you mean only the sin of homosexuality has survived these 2000 years? Did your god send a message recently that your selection of god's laws was okay for contemporary times?

Cicerone, do you realize that you are not doing one thing to further the stance of your position or is it just your position on the "team" to bait?

Yo, ci...

...you're doing plenty to further the stance. Don't listen to MA...she is just saying this because she has nothing of real value to offer.

Keep on truckin', ci. Keep on truckin' Twisted Evil

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That's really funny coming from somebody who can't produce any evidence that the bible or their god is for real. Even comic books have more logic, since we understand from the very beginning that it's all fiction. I'm not the one trying to defend one book called the bible that's filled with contradictions, errors and omissions. Circular logic and subjective selection of verse from the bible that are contradictory elsewhere in the same book leaves me to believe the authors did a piss-poor job of writing it. With so many who believe in it say "it's the word of god," your god makes too many mistakes for serious consideration.

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MommaAngel wrote:

I am a fan of truth and reality, though.

You have a strange way of showing it, MA!

Truth and reality are NOT achieved by faith. Faith is suspending your reason in the service of the supernatural. Some people derive comfort from faith, and as far as I am concerned, that is fine. But don't be so naive as to believe that faith and reason can coexist. They can't. They are a contradiction in terms.

erratum: MA- Looks like I have done the same thing that you did...............ascribe a quote that you didn't write. Sorry 'bout that. But my statement concerning the quote still stands.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

MommaAngel wrote:
I am a fan of truth and reality, though.

You have a strange way of showing it, MA!

Truth and reality are NOT achieved by faith. Faith is suspending your reason in the service of the supernatural. Some people derive comfort from faith, and as far as I am concerned, that is fine. But don't be so naive as to believe that faith and reason can coexist. They can't. They are a contradiction in terms.

You are gonna catch some shyt on this, Phoenix!

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FrankApisa wrote:

You are gonna catch some shyt on this, Phoenix!

Bring it on! :wink:

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

FrankApisa wrote:
You are gonna catch some shyt on this, Phoenix!

Bring it on! :wink:

Don't say I didn't warn ya!

(The quote was from me...not MA!)

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Frank, You're doing a yeoman's job of challenging the neo-christians too, so keep up the good work. Your knowledge of the bible far exceeds mine, so keep quoting it back to them. We all know it ain't gonna do any good, but it'll help the rest of us gain the knowledge needed to challenge others.

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Phoenix Wrote:

Quote:

Momma Angel Wrote:

No, Intrepid. I do not "believe" in stoning. I am a fan of truth and reality, though.

Actually, Phoenix, it was Frank that said "I am a fan of truth and reality, though." It wasn't me, as I see Frank has told you.

No harm, no foul.

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Cicerone Imposter Wrote:

Quote:

That's really funny coming from somebody who can't produce any evidence that the bible or their god is for real. Even comic books have more logic, since we understand from the very beginning that it's all fiction. I'm not the one trying to defend one book called the bible that's filled with contradictions, errors and omissions. Circular logic and subjective selection of verse from the bible that are contradictory elsewhere in the same book leaves me to believe the authors did a piss-poor job of writing it. With so many who believe in it say "it's the word of god," your god makes too many mistakes for serious consideration.

Perhaps it would be easier for us to explain our position if you would quit changing what you are asking for. First you want proof. Now, you just want evidence?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Cicerone Imposter Wrote:

Quote:
Several countries have already made laws legallizing gay marriage. I wonder why the christians in those countries have a different take on the bible god over the American christians?

Most likely they believe as you seem to. That's it is ok to make a sin legal.

Did you hear that Intrepid?

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Frank wrote:

Let me take the three you just posted:

Quote:
Jud 15:19
But God split the hollow place that is in Lehi so that water came out of it. When he drank, his strength returned and he revived . Therefore * he named * it En-hakkore, which is in Lehi to this day.

There is absolutely no indication that the god is on the scene...

So then...who split the rock???

Frank wrote:

...but beyond that...we are in the midst of absolute carnage in the name of the god. Over a thousand men died in the passages immediately preceding this particular line...in what Samson says was done as a servant of that god. The god is being thanked for the "great victory"...which includes the carnage. And supposedly...some water comes on the scene for Sampson to drink...as a result of his prayers.

How the hell does this show love for humanity? How the hell can you suggest that there is not killing being done in the name of the god? What are you thinking about?

Frank, as the expert on strawmen, surely you recognize the ones you yourself build. The scene was one of God splitting a rock so Samson could drink. Not the activities that occur before or after. And I've already conceded that acts of God (or those that act for God) are not always comprehendable. But I believe your challenge was that the God of the bible was always that way (except once). Giving a thirsty person water via a miracle is not a loving act??? Even you in your stubbornheadedness surely can't mean that.

Frank wrote:

Quote:
Ge 25:21
Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD answered him and Rebekah his wife conceived

A woman got pregnant...and the narrator is saying that "god" did it. C'mon, Shock. The god is not on the scene. A woman got pregnant. And the god is being thanked for it.

In any case...how can you possibly suggest that allowing a woman to become pregnant possibly shows great love for humanity?

How can you possible suggest that is not. Where would humanity be without pregnant women???
The point I'm trying to bring out is that God has demonstrated his caring for individual people and their problems. Now I know you don't believe in a "personal God", but are you suggesting that a God capable of paying attention even to these trivial human concerns is not worthy of worship?

Frank wrote:

And since this line is a part of the Esau/Jacob fiasco...and all the crap that ensued for the two camps as a result...it truly is not free of the "asking others to kill" bit.

But I will grant you this is close.

Pity that a Christian, however, is reduced to showing something like this as an example of the great love the god of the Bible shows for humanity.

I think I'm more than "close"...but thanks anyway. And I'm of the opinion that a God who is able to care for and find time for individuals is far more worthy than one who can't.

Frank wrote:

Quote:
Da 6:22
"My God sent His angel and shut the lions' mouths and they have not harmed me, inasmuch * * as I was found innocent before Him; and also toward you, O king, I have committed no crime."

This specifically mentions that the god is not on the scene. How can you possibly suggest the god is here...when it says that the god is not there...but had sent a messenger?

I'll grant you that God was not "on the scene" but is not the act of sending a messenger an act of a loving God? Especially when the presence of the messenger is all between a man and several hungry lions?

Or perhaps you are willing to concede God was not "on the scene" during all the Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Joshua, etc. passages you quote about killing, enslaving, etc., because it was Israelites, not God himself, that actually were doing the killing and enslaving? Or God's messenger (Moses) doing the talking not God himself?

Ball over to you....

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Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

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