1
   

Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

 
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 04:01 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
I enjoyed the passion in your rationalization of why your god gave such savage and barbaric advice.


I disagree with the rationalization...but it is your rationalization...and I accept that.

In any case, it reduces to agreement with me that the god is savage and barbaric...even if you add your caveat of "it was necessary."


Frank, you would disagree with my rationalization no matter what was written. Even if proved absolutely wrong, you would take a stand and fight to the death against your detractor.

However, I must have given you pause for thought since you didn't call me an idiot or use your usual foul language. I personally do not care whether you agree with me or not.
I have faith....you do not. You find satisfaction in attacking others...I do not. You are a bully...I am not. You enjoy belittling others...I do not. Being a Christian ain't so bad.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 05:08 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
Intrepid wrote:

Look around at all that God has created. If you did a mathematical equation on the odds of everything being what it is today, it would be beyond human comprehension. The odds of a tornado blow through a junkyard and blow pieces of junk into a complete 747 jumbo jet are probably less.


This "look around" argument is nonsense, Intrepid.

What's here...is what's here.

It can just as easily be an accident as anything else.

The mathematical equation of duplicating it exactly ...may be "beyond human comprehension" (and I suspect it is)...but to take "what's here" as a finished product and say the odds against it happening accidentally is simply misusing logic and math.

You do understand that, don't you? I don't have to explain it in simpler terms, do I?


Frank, I previously replied to your remarks with the one word of nonsense because that is what I think it is. Realizing that this did not give a full reply, I am adding to that comment.

You throw off the "look around" comment easily. Did you give thought to that, or was that just a hysterical comment without form?

If you look around, you will see that very form of life on earth is highly specialized and perfectly adapted to its environment and to its place in life and for the purpose for which it was created.

The cactus in the desert, the eagle in the air, the tiger in the jungle, the whale in the sea, all function perfectly where they are and where God provided that they be. Our orderly, well-planned world, having WATER (practically unknown in the rest of the universe), a well-balanced atmosphere, almost 100 necessary and useful elements, and climactic conditions permitting life on earth, gives us abundant evidence that our world is unique in the universe, and was designed by an all-wise and all-powerful architect for human and animal habitation.

The innumerable and highly complex specialized organs, such as the eye and the ear, the sonar system of bats, the beak of the woodpecker, the tongue of a toad, the trunk of an elephant, the spinerettes of the spider, and mother's breast, are of such a nature that to be useful and functional they had to come into being at once, and could not have developed gradually through chance mutations, random changes," or natural selection. God created everything in it's place.

The medical properties of plants, the healing power of minerals and the food sources from the land and sea are all provided by God.

Yes, Frank....look around. Figure out exactly what the odds of this happening by chance would be. Include everything that interacts with each other and the perfect way that they work.

Yes, Frank as surely as these things are before us....there is a God,
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 05:55 am
Intrepid wrote:
If you look around, you will see that very form of life on earth is highly specialized and perfectly adapted to its environment and to its place in life and for the purpose for which it was created.


Isn't evolution wonderful? What "works" survives, and what doesn't becomes extinct!

One question. If you can explain to me me who or what created this God, I might tend to consider your "takes" on the matter a bit more seriously!
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:02 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:

One question. If you can explain to me me who or what created this God, I might tend to consider your "takes" on the matter a bit more seriously![/color][/b]


Why, Phoenix, that's an easy one. Man created this god. In his own image, too.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:07 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
If you look around, you will see that very form of life on earth is highly specialized and perfectly adapted to its environment and to its place in life and for the purpose for which it was created.


Isn't evolution wonderful? What "works" survives, and what doesn't becomes extinct!

One question. If you can explain to me me who or what created this God, I might tend to consider your "takes" on the matter a bit more seriously!


God is not as you and I who were created. Since God exists outside of time and space, and since He is the Creator of time and space, He obviously was not created! God began the beginning! This is why He says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:10 am
Intrepid wrote:
God is not as you and I who were created. Since God exists outside of time and space, and since He is the Creator of time and space, He obviously was not created! God began the beginning! This is why He says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."


What you are saying is that God was just "here". Pretty words, but logically meaningless.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:12 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
God is not as you and I who were created. Since God exists outside of time and space, and since He is the Creator of time and space, He obviously was not created! God began the beginning! This is why He says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."


What you are saying is that God was just "here". Pretty words, but logically meaningless.


Could you expand on why this is "logically meaningless"?

Perhaps you could explain to me where matter started from.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:12 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
God is not as you and I who were created. Since God exists outside of time and space, and since He is the Creator of time and space, He obviously was not created! God began the beginning! This is why He says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."


What you are saying is that God was just "here". Pretty words, but logically meaningless.


Something that doesn't seem to follow for me is that non-believers insist that the idea of God would have to fit our ideas of what is logical. Does mankind itself behave logically, bya and large? Why would you assume God would "make sense" to you?
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:16 am
Snood,
It never ceases to amaze me how non-believers debunk everything that they read, but have no facts to backup their contentions. God could stand here on earth and they would say that is illogical because God is eternal and does not show himself. It is something like trying to teach a child how to sneeze, wink or whistle.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:22 am
I have never said there is no God. My reply to Phoenix concerned this God that you all seem to be on about, the one that created a universe in six huuman days and looks like an old man in an ill-fitting night shirt, according to Michaelangelo.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:24 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
I have never said there is no God. My reply to Phoenix concerned this God that you all seem to be on about, the one that created a universe in six huuman days and looks like an old man in an ill-fitting night shirt, according to Michaelangelo.


I will respond when you post other than nonsense. You are mistaken when you say that God created everything in 6 human days. What does an artist's depiction of what he assumes God to look like have any bearing on His existence.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:26 am
Intrepid wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how non-believers debunk everything that they read, but have no facts to backup their contentions.


And what facts do YOU have to back up your contentions? Some ancient book written by primitive peoples who saw the world from an unsophisticated viewpoint?

It is not up to me to prove something does not exist. It is up to the person who says something DOES exist, to provide the proof.

If I said that there are little green men on Mars who do not need oxygen to survive, it would be up to me to provide the proof, not you to prove that there aren't little green men. The little green men postulate, IMO, is on the same level of logic as the contention that there is a God!
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:26 am
Merry Andrew wrote:
I have never said there is no God. My reply to Phoenix concerned this God that you all seem to be on about, the one that created a universe in six huuman days and looks like an old man in an ill-fitting night shirt, according to Michaelangelo.


But, the thing is that ANY depiction of God would be disputed by you, wouldn't it? Not just THIS one, but any? Faith has little to do with what you can be debated into.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:27 am
Up until now, I have been quite happy to sit back and read on this thread, but I think I will jump in here and give my two cents worth.

Frank, you posed the question about why God appears to be so cruel as to instruct the Israelites to do what He did when they conquered a city. Well, I don't claim to be an expert, but I will attempt to answer based on my study and understanding.

God had chosen the Israelites to be His chosen people. It was His plan to bring the Messiah into the world through them. He had promised them the land of Israel as part of His covenant with them. But God also knew that immorality and evil have a way of spreading through a society unless it is excised out. He knew that if left alone, other people living in the land He gave His people would eventually infest the Israeli society. It was God's desire to live among His people (as in, His presence in the Holy of Holies). But God, being Holy, cannot be present where sin is. God was effectively excising the sin from among Israel by instructing them to utterly destroy those they conquered within the promised land. In a figuretive way, God was trying to teach His people that sin needed to be completely removed if God was to abide with them.

You will notice that at no time did God demand that Israel go about attacking those not within the borders of the promised land and killing all of them. Israel failed to fully obey God's command, and predictably, as time passed, the Israelite society was infected with the habits of those they allowed to dwell among them. They repeatedly turned from God to worship the idols of those they did not destroy.

This is the basis for God's command that you question. God's command was not given to us, but rather was given to a specific people at a specific period of time and for a specific purpose.

You may see it as cruel. That's fine. Certainly your right. I can totally understand why it appears cruel. But admittedly I am not God and do not always understand the whys. Nor does God ask me to understand. Only to trust Him.

I am quite sure this explanation will not satisfy you Frank, but then nothing will. As I said up front, this is just my two cents worth.

Ma, Intrepid and others, hope this adds a bit more for you to think about. I hope my thoughts on this are understandable and that it will give you something more to think about on this subject.

Y'all have a good day.

You too Frank. Laughing Have a good day.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:29 am
Snood- Once you have subscribed to faith, logic and reason go out the window.IMO, faith and reason are incompatible with each other.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:34 am
Thank you CoastalRat. A very insightful post, IMO.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:36 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Snood- Once you have subscribed to faith, logic and reason go out the window.IMO, faith and reason are incompatible with each other.


For many, it is logic and reason that lead to the faith!
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:37 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Snood- Once you have subscribed to faith, logic and reason go out the window.IMO, faith and reason are incompatible with each other.


Everyone's entitled to their opinion. In my opinion, people who have ruled out God aren't reasonable.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:41 am
Snood- I haven't ruled out anything. What I am saying, is that I have no reason to believe that there is a God. If and when someone comes up with some rational reason that I should believe there is a God, then I will give it much contemplation. Until then, the entire concept has no meaning for me.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:49 am
Phoenix,
We are not trying to push Christianity on you or anyone else. You have your own opinions and decisions to make. We only offer our take on it. If our take has no meaning to you, that is your decision. It could be said that billions of people can't be wrong, but I would not say that. Peace and Love.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 11/17/2024 at 01:30:45