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Reasons to not want Hillary in '24

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2022 12:29 pm
@hightor,
And when AOC runs in 12 or so years, if she continues to show she is the people's champion and further develops her natural aptitude to lead , I hope to be around to vote for her.

I am impressed with her, even her occasional missteps are handled well. She seems to have a very good control of herself. I feel lucky to get to see her entrance and growth in the House.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2022 05:50 pm
More than ever before the elections hold the fate of millions by a thread. I understand being impatient with ones you disagree with. Being personally abusive I don't get.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Jan, 2022 06:45 pm
By Mark Murray
WASHINGTON — Overwhelming majorities of Americans believe the country is headed in the wrong direction, that their household income is falling behind the cost of living, that political polarization will only continue and that there's a real threat to democracy and majority rule.

What's more, the nation's top politicians and political parties are more unpopular than popular, and interest in the upcoming November midterms is down — not up.

And when Americans were asked to describe where they believe America is today, the top answers were "downhill," "divisive," "negative," "struggling," "lost" and "bad."

Those are the grim findings of a new national NBC News poll conducted less than 10 months before the midterm elections, when control of the U.S. Senate, U.S. House and governors' mansions across the country will be up for grabs.

"Downhill, divided, doubting democracy, falling behind, and tuning out — this is how Americans are feeling as they're heading into 2022," said Democratic pollster Jeff Horwitt of Hart Research Associates, who conducted this survey with Republican pollster Bill McInturff of Public Opinion Strategies.

That pessimism and gloom isn't helping the party in control of the White House and Congress.

While the poll shows Democrats enjoying a narrow 1 point advantage over Republicans as the party that should control Congress, it also shows President Joe Biden's job approval rating remaining in the low 40s, Republicans holding a double-digit edge in enthusiasm and key Democratic groups losing interest in the upcoming election.

"There is nothing but flashing red flights and warning signs for Democrats," said McInturff, the Republican pollster.

'Bad news for the party in power'
According to the poll, 72 percent of Americans say the country is headed in the wrong direction — essentially unchanged from the 71 percent who held this view in October's NBC News poll.

It marks just the sixth time in the poll's history when 70 percent or more have said the nation is on the wrong track in back-to-back surveys.

"In the three instances when this sustained dark outlook coincided with an election year, it foreshadowed bad news for the party in power — 1992, 2008 and 2016," said Horwitt, the Democratic pollster.

On the economy, while job creation is up and the unemployment rate is down, 61 percent of respondents in the poll say their family's income is falling behind the cost of living.

That's compared with 30 percent who say they're staying about even and 7 percent who say their income is going up faster than the cost of living.

By contrast, 27 percent agree with the statement that, despite the nation's strong partisan differences, the country always comes together to solve the greatest challenges.


That's a significant shift from when this question was last asked in 2010 — when 50 percent answered that America always comes together in tough times, versus 45 percent who said that the nation's political differences would only grow.

And on the state of democracy, a whopping 76 percent of Americans — including 7 in 10 Democrats, Republicans and independents — believe there is a threat to democracy and majority rule in this country.

A look ahead to the midterms
With fewer than 300 days until the November midterm elections, the NBC News poll finds 47 percent of registered voters saying they prefer a Democratic-controlled Congress, while 46 percent want Republicans in charge.

That's essentially unchanged from October, when Democrats held a 2 point edge on this question, 47 percent to 45 percent.

But Republicans enjoy a double-digit advance on enthusiasm ahead of November's elections, with 61 percent of Republicans saying they are very interested in the upcoming midterms — registering their interest either as a 9 or 10 on a 10-point scale — compared with 47 percent of Democrats who say the same.

In previous midterm cycles — whether 2006, 2010, 2014 or 2018 — the party that held a double-digit advantage in enthusiasm ended up making substantial gains.

Additionally, overall enthusiasm for the upcoming midterms is down from 59 percent who indicated a high level of interest in October, to 51 percent in this most recent poll.

And some of the biggest drops have come from key segments of the Democratic base, including Black voters, young voters and urban voters.

The top issues facing the country
Asked their two most important issues facing the country, the top responses from Americans were jobs and the economy (a combined 42 percent), the coronavirus (29 percent), voting rights and election integrity (25 percent), the cost of living (23 percent) and border security and immigration (22 percent).

Among Democrats, the top issues were the coronavirus, voting rights and election integrity, social and racial justice, jobs/economy and climate change.

Among Republicans, the top issues were jobs/economy, border security/immigration, taxes and spending and the cost of living.

Unpopular politicians and parties
Finally, the NBC News poll finds every politician and political party it tested to be more unpopular than popular with the American public:

Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo.: 23 percent positive, 29 percent negative (-6)
President Joe Biden: 39 percent positive, 48 percent negative (-9)
The Republican Party: 34 percent positive, 44 percent negative (-10)
Donald Trump: 37 percent positive, 51 percent negative (-14)
The Democratic Party: 33 percent positive, 48 percent negative (-15)
Vice President Kamala Harris: 32 percent positive, 49 percent negative (-17)
The NBC News poll was conducted Jan. 14-18 of 1,000 adults — including 650 respondents who only have a cellphone — and the overall margin of error is plus-minus 3.1 percentage points.

The margin of error for the poll's 790 registered voters is plus-minus 3.5 percentage points.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/downhill-divisive-americans-sour-nation-s-direction-new-nbc-news-n1287888
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 06:03 am
@edgarblythe,
Assange won it, he can now appeal to the Supreme Court.

Personally I think he should be sent back to Australia, he is not an American citizen, so he should not be subject to American laws.

He exposed war crimes, that is a fact, whether or not he jeopardised ongoing operations is a matter for debate.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 07:27 am
@izzythepush,
What was the result of his war crime revelations?
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 07:35 am
@izzythepush,
I am firmly on Assange's side in this.
izzythepush wrote:

Assange won it, he can now appeal to the Supreme Court.

Personally I think he should be sent back to Australia, he is not an American citizen, so he should not be subject to American laws.

He exposed war crimes, that is a fact, whether or not he jeopardised ongoing operations is a matter for debate.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 07:41 am
He should’ve had whistleblower protection from the beginning.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 07:45 am
@Lash,
Whistle Blowers go the whole way and go to court and explain themselves. There is no concept in law that protects whistle blowers from consequences of breaking laws.

He is no whistleblower.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 07:46 am
@bobsal u1553115,
I disagree.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 07:50 am
The Intercept

The government should not be allowed to break or circumvent law. When no one can stop them—journalists should be able to reveal the truth.

https://theintercept.com/2020/12/23/assange-snowden-whistleblower-pardons-espionage/
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 08:10 am
@Lash,
Daniel Elsberg is a whistle blower. Julien Assange wants to tip the cart and walk away from the result.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 08:22 am
@bobsal u1553115,
I disagree. Vilifying journalists who prove the villainy of corrupt governments puts you squarely on the wrong side. They go up against untouchable, otherwise unaccountable behemoths for the sake of uncovering extreme wrongdoing to assist the people. How can you side with the all-powerful, murdering monster? It makes no sense.

Btw, Ellsberg legit stole documents from a government office. (And also fyi: good for him.

Oh. Is it because Ellsberg informed on Nixon and Assange informed on Obama?

I get it now.

edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 08:29 am
The only reason one would condemn Assange for his truth telling would be to endorse the crimes he uncovered, whether inadvertently or knowingly.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 08:39 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Whistle Blowers go the whole way and go to court and explain themselves. There is no concept in law that protects whistle blowers from consequences of breaking laws.

He is no whistleblower.


Once again we are in agreement, Bobsal.

He is a guy who made money doing things that were illegal.

Tony Soprano was a fictional character who did that same thing...as was Al Capone...although Al was not fictional.

bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 08:39 am
@Lash,
Daniel Elsberg broke the law, blew the whistle, stood his ground and got to try his his motive (the US was acting illegally in Viet Nam) in court and won.

Assange just dumped the results of hiss illegal searching on the ground and escaped. Why didn't he show where public interests were the over riding reason for his actions, that made theft of state secrets a public good and not criminal? You know, like Daniel Elsberg and the tradition of American Whistle Blowers.

Why do you believe Australians can't break American laws in Great rittain?

How do you feel about nations, like GB who try and jail British pederasts for what they did in Thailand on sex tours after they get back to GB? We try those sorts of criminals here in the US, too.

I want him to come back and defend his breaking of US law and explain how breaking those laws benefits the American public.

I don't want him in jail, I want him to act like what a whistle blower would. If he can't prove was not criminal, then just like some other great American whistle blowers like the Berrigan brothers, both Catholic priests, did: (they went to prison -Lewisburg - and never whined) and go to jail.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 08:46 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Inaction, if American soldiers were subject to the international war crimes commission in The Hague things would be a lot different. As America is the most powerful nation on Earth it can afford to ignore human rights and the rule of law. The My Lai Massacre is proof of that.

If anyone does pay the price it's always the lowest ranking least important like Lyndie England.

Just because America lacks the will to prosecute war crimes doesn't mean the truth should be buried.

I don't particularly like Assange, I think he's quite repulsive and he should have answered for crimes he is alleged to have committed in Sweden.

He is not a whistle-blower, he was a publisher who would publish anything he was given. Now you can argue that what he did was quite irresponsible compared to how more mainstream news companies deal with leaks, but all he did was publish.

He did not break any official secrets act, or the American equivalent because he never signed. He published what he was given, he is not an American citizen and should not be subject to American laws.

Look at it this way, if I decided to start my own leak website called Izzyleaks, and someone from the Kremlin sent me details of Russian war crimes and I published it, should Putin be able to sue me for giving away plans of the imminent invasion of Ukraine?

bobsal u1553115
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 08:57 am
@izzythepush,
That's all true.

And Assange did nothing to stop or fix any of it. He seems more self aggrandizing than anything. If he wants to be a whistle blower he needs to go to court and expose this truth he believes need exposing fo the public and humanity's good and take his chances.

If he publishes Russian state secrets, he exposes himself to Russian law. Good law or terrible law. That's part of the playing field for a whistleblower: there are international law courts to fight Russian bad laws, but just as the US, China, Russia, etc, ect, etc - there's a real disrespect for international laws and agreement. We know who to blame. What do we do about it realistically?
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 09:11 am
@Frank Apisa,
He wants to be known, maybe as a "Whistle Blower", but he is no whistle blower.

Basically he brokered stolen goods/services.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 09:44 am
@bobsal u1553115,
So did Ellsberg. He actually did the stealing. A glaring chunk of hypocrisy on this issue.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2022 10:00 am
@Lash,
And didn't run away or whine and cry, he surrendered himself, stood trial, defended himself and was found not guilty.

Daniel Elsberger is a great American hero and whistle blower.


Assange does things not wanting to face the music. He didn't defend himself of rape charges, choosing to run like a coward; he tried to middleman US state secrets and sell them, and ran out out again on the consequences.

Dan took responsibility and went to trial and won, Julien took French leave and will be continuing to face the music for years more. Maybe if he had just not bought and sold information and not sexually assault women he'd look a little less crooked.
 

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