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Fitzgerald Investigation of Leak of Identity of CIA Agent

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 07:41 pm
Even liberals like Dershowitz, among others, thinks the Libby conviction and sentence are not proper.

http://newsbusters.org/taxonomy/term/336
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2007/06/legal-scholars-dispute-libby-conviction.php
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/08/politics/main2905501.shtml

I think Fitzgerald is going to end up with egg on his face, big time, if he doesn't indict somebody for the original crime. I predicted this a long time ago, as have many others. If he is so competent and detailed, where are the results? The man went looking for a tree to cut down and got lost in the forest. He is still lost.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 07:43 pm
Fitz said early on in his investigation, he's not going to go witch-hunting.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 09:14 pm
Okie, you only found one lib for letting Scooter off. Even a lib (Dershowitz) can be wrong sometimes. Remember, Dersh. is a defense lawyer, likely to favor the defense.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 10:36 pm
okie wrote:
HokieBird wrote:

You are clearly wrong.

Just to save you the effort, Hokiebird, Parados will never, never admit he was wrong. He must be a lawyer, and he will parse every word down to the gnat's hair.


Oh, good grief ... not a chance in hell, okie. Parados has an aversion to logical thinking, which I've demonstrated time and again. Law schools try to weed out those folks early on in the process.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 12:50 am
My deepest apologies to the legal profession, Ticomaya.

I do recall shortly after joining this board that Parados and I had a lengthy debate concerning some very simple points of logic, one being about Clinton's admission that he had the opportunity to get Bin Laden from the Sudanese, and Parados carried on the very convoluted argument that Clinton's statement meant nothing about Bin Laden being offered by the Sudanese. He did that by parsing Clinton's words in a very strange way, much like in the spirit of Clinton's meaning of what the word "is" is. After that exchange, I concluded that Parados would never admit any point, regardless how obvious and convincing the point was.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 06:36 am
Ticomaya wrote:
okie wrote:
HokieBird wrote:

You are clearly wrong.

Just to save you the effort, Hokiebird, Parados will never, never admit he was wrong. He must be a lawyer, and he will parse every word down to the gnat's hair.


Oh, good grief ... not a chance in hell, okie. Parados has an aversion to logical thinking, which I've demonstrated time and again. Law schools try to weed out those folks early on in the process.

It makes one wonder if you really are a lawyer Tico, after that statement.

But if you want to join okie in claiming that people went to jail for crimes related to Whitewater feel free. I'm sure you can make a much stronger case than he has been able to. Maybe you can even use the actual words from the indictments. I won't hold my breath waiting for your "logical thinking" to reveal where I have been incorrect.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 06:43 am
okie wrote:
My deepest apologies to the legal profession, Ticomaya.

I do recall shortly after joining this board that Parados and I had a lengthy debate concerning some very simple points of logic, one being about Clinton's admission that he had the opportunity to get Bin Laden from the Sudanese, and Parados carried on the very convoluted argument that Clinton's statement meant nothing about Bin Laden being offered by the Sudanese. He did that by parsing Clinton's words in a very strange way, much like in the spirit of Clinton's meaning of what the word "is" is. After that exchange, I concluded that Parados would never admit any point, regardless how obvious and convincing the point was.

That's nice okie. You and Sean can go off on your own and make up your own meanings for words in the English language. The rest of us will rely on the dictionary and the rules of grammar.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 10:11 am
parados, Most attorneys I know specialize in one area of the law such as "trusts and wills" or "labor laws." Ticomaya's knowledge about "law" is very limited, and he has no logic/common sense ability. I wouldn't hire him to mow my lawn, because I know he would over-charge for his (under)skill level.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 04:13 pm
Tico recently said that he wasn't a lawyer. He said that he was in middle management. Is that a flip-flop?

BTW, I can't understand why all the conservatives have no difficulty with the White House, for political reasons, outing a CIA spy. Accordingly, they have no problem with the guy who lied and obstructed justice in the matter. I guess our country stands in second place to the well-being of Bush and his thugs.

Scooter should serve at least 18 months, which is the duration of Judith Miller's stay in prison because Scooter wouldn't speak up regarding his statements to her.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 04:40 pm
parados wrote:
That's nice okie. You and Sean can go off on your own and make up your own meanings for words in the English language. The rest of us will rely on the dictionary and the rules of grammar.

I presume you are referring to Sean Hannity that talked about this repeatedly, and still mentions it from time to time. I find your interpretations of issues pretty amazing, Parados, including the meaning of Clinton's own words, but anyway no need to rehash that again. Be assured it is in the memory bank as a point of reference.

In regard to Libby, he should have just said, "I don't recall" as many times as necesary, as Hillary perfected it as an art, and he probably would not have the trouble he has to deal with now.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 04:42 pm
Quote:

In regard to Libby, he should have just said, "I don't recall" as many times as necesary, as Hillary perfected it as an art, and he probably would not have the trouble he has to deal with now.


Lol, probably not!

But, he didn't, and he's now getting what he deserves.

Cycloptichorn
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 04:46 pm
Cyclops, my position on this issue would be different if I did not believe this was a political vendetta by the Wilsons, from the very start, possibly with cooperation of others. Due to that factor, I believe Novak did the right thing to publish what he did.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 05:00 pm
okie wrote:
Cyclops, my position on this issue would be different if I did not believe this was a political vendetta by the Wilsons, from the very start, possibly with cooperation of others. Due to that factor, I believe Novak did the right thing to publish what he did.


Snort

What a crazy conspiracy theory you've plotted out here, Okie. I hope you realize that this puts you up there with the 9/11 and 'no moon landing' nutjobs.

Nothing that the Wilsons did gives anyone the right to violate the law, unfortunately for your position.

Cycloptichorn
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2007 09:51 pm
Advocate wrote:
Tico recently said that he wasn't a lawyer. He said that he was in middle management. Is that a flip-flop?


What have you been smoking? I'm not in middle management, have never been in middle management, and have never said I was in middle management.

You must have me confused with c.i.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2007 07:58 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
[
Nothing that the Wilsons did gives anyone the right to violate the law, unfortunately for your position.

Cycloptichorn

What law was violated, cyclops?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2007 08:51 am
okie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
[
Nothing that the Wilsons did gives anyone the right to violate the law, unfortunately for your position.

Cycloptichorn

What law was violated, cyclops?


Depends on who you are talking about. But the intentional revelation of Plame's identity would be a violation of the IIPA and the oath that is taken by WH members not to reveal secret information. If it was knowingly discussed, then there's Conspiracy to commit crime.

As for Libby, he violated laws against Obstructing Justice and Perjury, effectively blocking any resolution on the investigation into the other potential infractions.

Today is Libby's hearing on whether or not he gets to stay out of jail during appeal; I predict he will not.

Cycloptichorn
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2007 08:57 am
Cyclo: Depends on who you are talking about. But the intentional revelation of Plame's identity would be a violation of the IIPA and the oath that is taken by WH members not to reveal secret information. If it was knowingly discussed, then there's Conspiracy to commit crime.


That is correct; anyone that will have access to secret or top secret information is given a background check by the government before they are authorized access to information that are classified. They are instructed not to reveal that information, or to talk about classified information outside their workplace. When I was in the US Air Force, SAC, I had a top secret clearance, because I worked with nuclear weapons. We were told if caught, the penalty was ten years in jail and $10,000 (big money back in the late fifties).
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2007 09:03 am
Remind me again why Sandy Burgler isn't in jail?
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2007 09:15 am
McGentrix wrote:
Remind me again why Sandy Burgler isn't in jail?



He pleaded guilty and copped a plea. Nothing he did endangered the country. That is not true for the WH gang that outed a CIA spy, and then lied and obstructed.

BTW, it is not disputed that Libby leaked Plame's ID to Matt Cooper, and why he was not held accountable is beyond me.

Fitz said that Rove did not commit perjury, although the FBI disagrees.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2007 09:43 am
5 myths about the Libby case
The public still has startling misconceptions about the investigation
CAROL LEONNIG
Washington Post
Judge Reggie Walton, who last week sentenced Lewis "Scooter" Libby to 30 months in prison for lying to federal investigators about his role in the leak of a CIA officer's identity, got 373 pages of letters about the high-profile convict whose fate he had to decide.

Many argued for leniency on behalf of Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff. Others were outraged about the example Libby set; one letter from "An Angry Citizen" demanded the longest prison term possible.

While covering this case for The Washington Post from the beginning of Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation in December 2003, I've received a steady stream of mail about the case, most of it fuming -- some because they think a tireless patriot is being persecuted by a runaway prosecutor, others because they think a ruthless traitor is getting off easy for jeopardizing national security.

Neither caricature is fair -- let alone accurate. But even now, four years after Valerie Plame's identity hit the papers, the public still has some startling misconceptions about this fascinating, thorny case.

1. Valerie Plame wasn't a covert operative.

Wrong. She was.

Granted, this wasn't so clear at the start of Fitzgerald's grand jury investigation, so Libby's allies argued that the beans he spilled weren't that important to begin with. In fact, many of the officials who actually knew about her classified CIA status kept mum, which let Libby's pals jump to assert that she wasn't an undercover operative at the time of the leak.

But a CIA "unclassified summary" of Plame's career, released in court filings before Libby's June 5 sentencing, puts this one to rest: The CIA considered her covert at the time her identity was leaked to the media.

When Libby was convicted, some conservative pundits complained that Fitzgerald had presented no compelling evidence at trial that Plame was covert. But that wasn't for lack of evidence; it was because Libby's lawyers convinced the court to bar any mention of her status during the trial, arguing that evidence suggesting that her job was classified would have been "unfairly prejudicial" to their client.

The CIA says she was covert. Which other spook bureaucracy do you need to ask?

2. Karl Rove would have been indicted in the Plame case if it hadn't been for all the destroyed evidence.

You'll find this conspiracy theory all over left-wing blogs. The main cause of the hyperventilating is a series of missing White House e-mails, supposedly containing marching orders from President Bush's top political adviser in which Rove told his troops to out Plame and punish her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, for having poured cold water over reports that Saddam Hussein had sought uranium in Africa.

Those e-mails may well contain interesting stuff, but for now, it's rank speculation to suggest they contained information about the Plame case or would have pushed Fitzgerald to charge Rove with perjury.

Fitzgerald told the court just that. He was exercising standard prosecutorial discretion when he decided not to charge Rove, according to sources close to the probe: He simply didn't think he had a strong enough case to prove that Rove had intentionally lied to investigators (though some FBI agents disagreed).

3. Libby didn't leak Plame's identity.

Oh brother, am I tired of this one. Libby wasn't charged with the crime of knowingly leaking classified information about Plame; he was charged with lying to investigators. But the overwhelming weight of the evidence at the trial -- including reporters' notes of their interviews with Libby -- showed that Libby had indeed leaked classified information about Plame's identity, even though that wasn't what put him in the dock. The jury agreed that Libby lied when he said that he'd only been telling reporters what other reporters had already told him about Plame's role at the CIA.

What is unclear is whether Libby knew she was a covert CIA agent at the time he discussed her with reporters -- a key point in determining whether this was an illegal leak.

4. Bad press doesn't get under Vice President Cheney's skin.

The most powerful vice president in U.S. history is usually described as a tough customer who shrugs off media criticism. But if he had been that immune to it he would never have told his top aide to talk about Joe Wilson, and none of this would ever have happened.

5. The White House would fire any administration official who leaked classified information about Plame.

When the leak probe began in 2003, the president said he hated leaks and would hold leakers of classified information accountable. But he's still never sacked anyone over the case.

Libby resigned the day he was indicted in October 2005. Two other officials who gave reporters information about Plame, former deputy secretary of state Richard Armitage and former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, left government before Fitzgerald's probe concluded. And Rove, who first told Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper about Plame's CIA identity, remains in the White House as deputy chief of staff.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carol Leonnig, formerly a reporter at the Observer, covers federal courts for The Washington Post. Write her at [email protected].
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