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Fitzgerald Investigation of Leak of Identity of CIA Agent

 
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 08:55 pm
Quote:
The only argument for why someone wasn't charged is that the prosecutor feels they don't have enough of a case to convict. It doesn't mean anything else.


So,it doesnt mean that there was NO CRIME COMMITTED?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 08:57 pm
Yes, to break the law, at least two hoops to jump through, one being covert, and the other being intent and knowledge of her status. Unfortunately, Fitz has failed to even jump through the first hoop, let alone the second, which would be probably the most difficult of all. Which makes many of us sit out here for years wondering what in the world is this man doing anyway?

To bring up an analogy I used before, if an investigator investigates a possible burglary, he must first establish items are missing, and secondly that someone stole them without permission. Once that is established, that a crime actually did occur, then continue to investigate the crime to find out who did it. In this case, he has yet to tell anybody if he has established that anything is even missing, after 3 years.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 09:06 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Charges have not been brought for one simple, over-arching, inescapable reason: no underlying crime for which anyone might be charged has been found to exist.
Failure to bring charges in no way shows that no crime was found. Is a bank not robbed if no one is charged with the crime? Is a murder not committed if no one is charged with the crime.

There are many reasons for why a crime isn't charged.
1. There was no crime.
2. The person that committed that crime has not been found.
3. A prosecutor feels they don't have enough evidence to convict the person that committed the crime.
4. The prosecutor makes a judgement to not charge the crime for a number of other reasons.
5. The Grand Jury fails to bring the indictment even though the evidence was there.

Your reason is not over-arching or inescapable Timber. It is one of many reasons. We don't know which one is the real reason.

Your conjecture as to the reason is no more valid than any other conjecture.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 09:15 pm
okie wrote:
Yes, to break the law, at least two hoops to jump through, one being covert, and the other being intent and knowledge of her status. Unfortunately, Fitz has failed to even jump through the first hoop,

And you know this how okie? Please provide us with your inside knowledge of what the CIA told Fitzgerald.

You are doing nothing but speculating. Your speculation requires that the CIA lied to investigators when they asked for the investigation. If the CIA lied why have no CIA officials been indicted? I highly doubt a prosecutor willing to make a name for himself would have missed the opportunity to ingratiate himself to the administration while at the same time indicting high ranking members of the CIA. Imagine the circus with 3 or 4 CIA officials on trial. Fitzgerald would be your hero if he had done that okie. But no, he charged the wrong people with lying. You just can't believe so you make up your own evidence and claim it is true.

Provide us with your source that shows the CIA didn't tell the truth.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 09:36 pm
okie wrote:
Yes, to break the law, at least two hoops to jump through, one being covert, and the other being intent and knowledge of her status. Unfortunately, Fitz has failed to even jump through the first hoop, let alone the second, which would be probably the most difficult of all. Which makes many of us sit out here for years wondering what in the world is this man doing anyway?

To bring up an analogy I used before, if an investigator investigates a possible burglary, he must first establish items are missing, and secondly that someone stole them without permission. Once that is established, that a crime actually did occur, then continue to investigate the crime to find out who did it. In this case, he has yet to tell anybody if he has established that anything is even missing, after 3 years.


Please stop bringing up things you've said before. I'm getting embarrassed for you.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 09:42 pm
parados wrote:
okie wrote:
Yes, to break the law, at least two hoops to jump through, one being covert, and the other being intent and knowledge of her status. Unfortunately, Fitz has failed to even jump through the first hoop,

And you know this how okie? Please provide us with your inside knowledge of what the CIA told Fitzgerald.

Have you seen any news that she was covert, Parados? Have you ever heard Fitzgerald say anything that proves he has established that? In fact, in his interview in 2005, he backed away from declaring she was covert, only that her job was classified, which is a big difference. When you can find me a quote, then I will admit he has cleared the first hoop. So far, I've seen nothing.

Quote:
You are doing nothing but speculating. Your speculation requires that the CIA lied to investigators when they asked for the investigation. If the CIA lied why have no CIA officials been indicted? I highly doubt a prosecutor willing to make a name for himself would have missed the opportunity to ingratiate himself to the administration while at the same time indicting high ranking members of the CIA. Imagine the circus with 3 or 4 CIA officials on trial. Fitzgerald would be your hero if he had done that okie. But no, he charged the wrong people with lying. You just can't believe so you make up your own evidence and claim it is true.

Provide us with your source that shows the CIA didn't tell the truth.


No, I don't see any need to show the CIA lied at all. They are not versed in the law. In fact, has anyone ever been convicted under the law we are talking about? They asked for an investigation, but a finding of no crime does not imply that they lied. I don't need to provide any source, as I have never asserted the CIA did not tell the truth. I think they probably were not sure if the case met the criteria, and it may have been a political move more than anything else, simply to divert the attention away from their own intelligence failures. If you care to read all the theories on that, there are probably plenty, but I do not think it is reasonable at all for Fitz to indict CIA officials for turning in a non-crime. Have you lost your mind, Parados?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 09:48 pm
Yes, JTT, I will admit I have been flailing away at this far too long. My apologies. I have said the same thing too many times to count, so on that I will agree.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 09:51 pm
bazaar?
did you mean bizarre?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 09:51 pm
Gee,
The police withhold information about crimes all the time. Failure to tell the public what was missing in no way means the crime didn't occur. It could mean the police are withholding that information because only the criminal would know what it was. Most bank robberies fail to list the amount of money that was stolen


This story says 408 bank robberies occured in NYC in 2003 but only lists the amount of money stolen in one of them. Does that mean the other 407 didn't occur okie? Bank robberies The police are obvious liars, aren't they okie? They haven't produced any evidence of how much money was taken in those bank robberies so those bank robberies didn't happen. Your logic is impeccable, don't you think?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 09:53 pm
Ha, dys, I edited the post before you got me.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 09:57 pm
You are too funny okie.
It is a crime to make a false crime report. You do know that, don't you?

In one paragraph you claim they shouldn't be charged while claiming they did it for political reasons and not because it was actually a crime. Why on earth would a prosecutor out to make a name for himself not jump on a crime like that?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 10:00 pm
parados wrote:
Gee,
The police withhold information about crimes all the time. Failure to tell the public what was missing in no way means the crime didn't occur. It could mean the police are withholding that information because only the criminal would know what it was. Most bank robberies fail to list the amount of money that was stolen


This story says 408 bank robberies occured in NYC in 2003 but only lists the amount of money stolen in one of them. Does that mean the other 407 didn't occur okie? Bank robberies The police are obvious liars, aren't they okie? They haven't produced any evidence of how much money was taken in those bank robberies so those bank robberies didn't happen. Your logic is impeccable, don't you think?


Your example doesn't work. You say the police reported 408 robberies. Who cares how much money was stolen, as it doesn't matter. Only that some was stolen, so the robberies were robberies. In this case, no robbery has ever been established, not even that any money is missing, regardless of the amount, let alone it being intentionally stolen.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 10:07 pm
A lovely special pleading fallacy there okie.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 10:07 pm
parados wrote:
You are too funny okie.
It is a crime to make a false crime report. You do know that, don't you?

In one paragraph you claim they shouldn't be charged while claiming they did it for political reasons and not because it was actually a crime. Why on earth would a prosecutor out to make a name for himself not jump on a crime like that?


Away with ya, Parados, use a little logic. It is not a crime to report a possible crime, to see if a law was broken. Thats all this is. If no law is broken, case closed, and thats what should have happened. Everybody goes home happy.

Look, I don't know why the CIA turned it over, at least not all of the reasons. Only the people responsible at the CIA know this. I can speculate, however, and I think it may have been political reasons. No prosecutor in their right mind could make a case out of that. I do think, however, that he made a wrong turn and should have gone down the road of questioning Joseph Wilson under oath. After all, he has information pertinent to this case, that would be important factors in establishing whether this is actually a crime, and if so, who originally leaked the information.

As I said, I am want to quit wasting time on this for a while.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 10:09 pm
A "little logic" would be more than you are demonstrating okie. :wink:
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 10:13 pm
If no law is broken everyone goes home but because everyone didn't go home it must mean no law was broken?


In fact it points to the opposite okie. Don't you agree? Because everyone didn't go home it probably means that a law was broken. Or are you going to make another special pleading?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 10:15 pm
Well, I think it takes logic to recognize logic, Parados. Remember the argument we had about Clinton being handed OBL on a silver platter by Sudan? I knew after that argument that you would never ever admit any hint of being wrong about anything, regardless of how compelling the evidence and logic was.

As cyclops says, cheers. At least you are fun to debate, although frustrating as well. Maybe if you would grow up past the crybaby stage, you could understand logic? Laughing
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 10:17 pm
There go you again okie. Making claims that are not supported by any evidence or logic..
Quote:
I do think, however, that he made a wrong turn and should have gone down the road of questioning Joseph Wilson under oath. After all, he has information pertinent to this case, that would be important factors in establishing whether this is actually a crime, and if so, who originally leaked the information.

Please tell us what Wilson knows. Tell us how your knowledge of Wilson makes your logical conclusion compared to your knowledge of what Fitz has told you.

In one case a lack of being told proves it doesn't exist. In the other case a lack of being told proves it does exist. Quite the logic you are using okie.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Feb, 2007 10:19 pm
okie wrote:
Well, I think it takes logic to recognize logic, Parados. Remember the argument we had about Clinton being handed OBL on a silver platter by Sudan? I knew after that argument that you would never ever admit any hint of being wrong about anything, regardless of how compelling the evidence and logic was.

As cyclops says, cheers. At least you are fun to debate, although frustrating as well. Maybe if you would grow up past the crybaby stage, you could understand logic? Laughing

How compelling? You mean the fact that a government investigation said it never happened? Yeah. real compelling argument there okie but you continue to argue it did happen.

Your evidence and logic was non existent there too okie.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Feb, 2007 06:48 am
Okie.


We can both agree that the first thing Fitzgerald should have done in his investigation was to determine the role of Plame and if she met the standard under the law to pursue that investigation.

That leads us to 4 possible choices of what Fitzgerald did before he questioned any WH administration officials. Which do you think is accurate or supply a different choice.

1. He was incompetent and didn't ask the CIA anything before questioning the WH officials.
2. He did ask the CIA and determined she was classified but not covert but there was still a possible violation of the law simply because her status was classified.
3. He did ask the CIA and determined classified but not covert but he went forward anyway simply because he saw a political opportunity.
4. He did ask the CIA and determined she was covert and then went on to question WH officials.
0 Replies
 
 

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