Does anyone here know of any unvaccinated person who has been denied medical care?

@hightor,

My mother-in-law (who is vaccinated) was recently refused emergency admittance to her local hospital and sent to a hospital in a nearby town due to lack of available facilities. Stories of hospitals where a local spike in cases has resulted in no beds are pretty easy to find.

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@hightor,

It is political bullshit!

- People choose to smoke and get lung cancer. They take hospital beds.
- People choose to use recreational drugs, and get addictions and OD. They take hospital beds.
- People choose to get obese and get diabetes. They take hospital beds.
- People ignore their doctors about exercise and salt. They take hospital beds.
- People drink to excess and need kidneys. They take hospital beds.

Why don't Bobsal and Engineer whine about any of these people?

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@bobsal u1553115,

Unfortunately you're dealing with an propagandist who dismisses anything that doesn't fit with his ideology.

Lies are all he has.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

How much of this do you blame on Republicans

I blame individuals who are actively promoting vaccine skepticism. If they identify as Republicans, Trump supporters, or Sanders socialists it makes no difference. They are prolonging the pandemic and endangering public health.

Quote:

...and how much is because we are in a global ******* pandemic.

The pandemic is the base level problem. It would be really stupid to blame the pandemic — for what? For being a pandemic? The pandemic isn't at fault for people's refusal to be vaccinated.

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@izzythepush,

Oh look. Izzy isn't ignoring me (he was doing Ok for a little while).

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

Why don't Bobsal and Engineer whine about any of these people?

When was the last time there was a worldwide shortage of hospital beds because smokers, diabetics, fat people, drug addicts, and alcoholics were all hospitalized at the same time? You're really trotting out some off-the-wall "arguments" – they could certainly be labeled "political bullshit".

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@hightor,

That doesn't make any sense Hightor. The majority of covid deaths happened before there was any vaccine.

You can say that people not being vaccinated is "prolonging the pandemic"... but hundreds of thousands of people in the US would have died even if everyone was a virtuous as you.

The virus is killing people.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

The majority of covid deaths happened before there was any vaccine.

Which is a good argument for universal vaccination.

Quote:

...but hundreds of thousands of people in the US would have died even if everyone was a virtuous as you.

Sure, before there was a vaccine there was a higher rate of infection and death. That is totally beside the point. The fact is, there are a lot of people needlessly contracting the disease and being hospitalized. (I'm hardly "virtuous" for getting a free vaccination and I resent your cheap shot.)

Quote:

The virus is killing people.

The point is that it is killing more people than it would if more people were vaccinated.

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@hightor,

I agree with everything you are saying in this post. Yes, vaccinations work and yes, getting people vaccinated will save lives.

We agree on all of this. What we disagree about is the political outrage that attacks people rather than looking for solutions.

Where maybe we disagree...

1. The suggestion that maybe we should let people die if they are unvaccinated is barbaric.

2. Whining that unvaccinated people who need serious medical care are taking away from elective eye surgery is vindictive and petty.

3. Punishing people from making irrational health choices, be it smoking, or obesity or drug use or vaccinations always causes more problems.

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@maxdancona,

We agree that people should get vaccinated....

I am objecting to the idea that people who choose not to get vaccinated should be made to suffer. There is a level of anger and vengefulness coming from the political left that I don't think is productive or warranted.

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@maxdancona,

A cataract surgery is performed here in Germany as an outpatient operation (in this context, "outpatient surgery" refers to certain surgical services that are performed in the practice, practice clinic or hospital without subsequent overnight stay [hospitalisation]).
The missus was going to get two. They are postponed until further notice - not because the vaccine has only been available for 10 months, but because of the duties of the anaesthetist, the nurses, etc.
According to the hospital guidelines here, a certain number of (normal) hospital and intensive care beds must be kept available for so-and-so many outpatient operations.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The suggestion that maybe we should let people die if they are unvaccinated is barbaric.

To let people die in hospital although theoretically help could be done, is barbaric.
But that's - triage - what starts now e.g. in certain Austrian states. (We can avoid it until now by sending patients e.g. from Bavaria to northern or western German states.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

It is my understanding that German employers can not mandate vaccinations for their employees, or even inquire about an employee's vaccination status (I work for an European international corporation, and I believe the unions squelched any possibility of a vaccine mandate from my employer). Germany is very serious about privacy.

You can correct me if I am wrong about that.

I find it very unlikely that vaccination status would have any bearing on triage decisions.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I find it very unlikely that vaccination status would have any bearing on triage decisions.

It's certainly not the vaccination status which has a bearing on triage decisions. (I don't know about Austria, but in Germany we've got a document entitled "Decisions on the allocation of intensive care resources in the context of the COVID 19 pandemic" which gives medical, legal and ethical aids for the medical personal.)

n very general terms, triage involves assessing the severity of the disease
the general state of health, possible concomitant diseases that may worsen the diagnosis (e.g. advanced cancer or immunodeficiency) are assessed.

But: the situation to consider a triage certainly has the reaso because of the many covit patients in intensive care. And here, between 70% and 90% are unvaccinated.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

It is my understanding that German employers can not mandate vaccinations for their employees, or even inquire about an employee's vaccination status (I work for an European international corporation, and I believe the unions squelched any possibility of a vaccine mandate from my employer). Germany is very serious about privacy.

Employers can at least inquire the vaccination status of their employees in certain enterprises. (The obligation to provide information pursuant to Section 36 (3) of the Infection Protection Act only applies to the facilities and enterprises named in Section 36 (1) and (2) of the Infection Protection Act, since particularly vulnerable groups of people are cared for or accommodated there, or numerous people are exposed to a risk of infection due to the spatial proximity.)

As there is no compulsory vaccination in Germany, the employer cannot take action against those who are not vaccinated or do not intend to be. The employer therefore remains contractually obliged to employ - with or without vaccination.

In some federal states there are legal ordinances that allow companies/businesses to introduce a so-called 2G option, i.e. to open public operations exclusively for vaccinated and recovered persons. Employees who work with the public or with customers are also to be covered by the 2G regulation according to the regulations of these states.

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I don't think anyone was suggesting unvaccinated people not get treatment. And bobsal wasn't whining. I heard it as a statement.

Stop attributing untruths to people, max. Some of your claims are outrageous.

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@maxdancona,

And there you go again. We present an argument and fact and you troll.

WHY ARE YOU TROLLING ME?

Why are you unable to marshal any semblance of argument or fact, only personal insults not relating to the topic at hand?

WHY ARE YOU A TROLL???

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@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Why are you unable to marshal any semblance of argument or fact, only personal insults not relating to the topic at hand?

Because it's all he ever does, lies and insults, it's like infowars in a wig.

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@maxdancona,

You think it's funny that Texas has a less than 60% vax rate? Murdering people must get a big belly laugh out you.

Why are you such a troll?

Why do you find it so hilarious I can't get a needed surgery because people think its OK to spread filth and disease and you defend them? What about having to wait extra weeks for my cancer treatments and checkups. Why do you think its funny?

WHY.ARE.YOU.A.TROLL?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

It is political bullshit!

- People choose to smoke and get lung cancer. They take hospital beds.
- People choose to use recreational drugs, and get addictions and OD. They take hospital beds.
- People choose to get obese and get diabetes. They take hospital beds.
- People ignore their doctors about exercise and salt. They take hospital beds.
- People drink to excess and need kidneys. They take hospital beds.

Why don't Bobsal and Engineer whine about any of these people?

I think this is a valid point. With which of my statements do you disagree?

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Does anyone here know of any unvaccinated person who has been denied medical care?

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