ABORTION.......

There is a big difference in respecting someone and respecting someone's behavior.

I will add that I am not one of the people who argue well.
I am most interested in fine tuning my own opinions and expressing them from time to time coherently. Sometimes that will add beef or grief to one side or another or another.

Sorry about answering so late. Anyhow, as a Christian you should refrain from placing judgment on other human beings of course. Never place judgment on those women who have had abortions, but rather pray for them and sympathize with them. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that one should refrain from condemning the practice of abortion itself if one considers it to be murder, or at least potential murder. As a Christian you should abhor all forms of sin, and fight against it, but only using legitimate means of course. Burning abortion clinics is not acceptable.



I really don't know where they get that idea actually. I'd like to know that as well.



From a Christian point of view, it's simply not your right to decide who dies or lives, regardless if the life in question is inside your womb or not. Therefore, in my opinion, abortion is not even an option. You say that adoption isn't always favourable, but from the Christian viewpoint, it's not your role to judge whether the life of another is favourable, because you can know nothing about whether it is favourable for the soul in question. To choose abortion is to judge the child to death based on your own perception of whether the child would have a meaningful life or not, and that means that you place your own judgment above God's.

ossobuco and ehBeth,
I am glad that Frank has some friends. I was specifically referring to people posting on this thread. If attacking people and name calling are effective means of arguing, then he does this extremely well. Respect is earned. He may have earned yours, ehBeth, but he has not earned mine. Having said that, I do not harbour disrespect anyone and believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Perhaps it is the way the opinion is presented that irks me. Not that matters to him. As I said, I have given up trying to converse with him.

Derevon, you do understand that there is not one Christian viewpoint, don't you?

Christians have as many different viewpoints and opinions as there are Christians.

And I am right behind Intrepid in that assessment. We have tried to converse civilly and Frank won't have any of it. So, I too, stopped conversing with Frank.

Franks dumps on arguments, not people. It is disconcerting. Some dump on arguments more politely.

I recall when Frank first showed up at AFUZZ . . . i liked him then and i like him now. I consider him to be as full of poop as an overflowing cess pool on many topics, but i like him.

I'll agree that dumping on arguments politely leaves the argument-dumpee in better shape, which probably promotes more open discussion, but there is something to be said in the long history of argument for forthright debunking.
People vary in their conversation, discussion, and argument methods.

Frankly, Frank is not as fearsome as a few folks here who are also good at argumentation. His 'hotness' is humanizing, in a way. One or two others - you'll feel your brain has been reamed out, I say, speaking for myself, and they'll also do it without insulting you personally, in a cool way.

Ossobuco,

If Frank only dumped on arguments and not people, I would have no problem with him at all. But, saying that he lives to bash Christians, is not what I consider dumping on an argument. Let's face it, friends are going to do just as his friends are doing here, just as anyone would do for a friend, standing up for their friend and trying to make it make sense.

I too am glad that Frank does have friends. Everyone should. But, a true friend will also point out where another friend may need some guidance.

Like I said, don't have a problem with him not agreeing with me or my beliefs. I have a big problem being called insane, a moron, etc.

You might not want to leave that invitation out there, MoAn. Someone may take you up on it.

Yep, a friend of Frank's all right.

Momma, can you point to where he specifically called you a moron?
He presumably called your ideas moronic, or christians' ideas moronic. I know that's hard to take.

Also, as has been pointed out, people who appreciate Frank don't agree with him on all his views all the time.

Ossobuco,

Well, as a matter of fact, he did call my beliefs moronic. But, he called me insane, a moron, incapable of logical thinking, etc.

He calls Christians, religious nuts, superstituous, hypocrites, etc. He says he feels he owes it to mankind to do this! He thinks he has the right to force his belief down my throat but God forbid it even seems I am doing anything like that to him.

Now, you can side with him, you can justify for him, you can do whatever you wish. The facts are that Frank behaves in a rude offensive manner intended to incite and ridicule those that do not believe the way he believes.

I went back through this thread from the beginning. I wanted to make positively sure that I was not just taking this the wrong way. Well, when someone flat out calls you a religious nut or hypocrite, there's not much wiggle room there. He either did it or he didn't. And, he did it.

Can you quote where he said you were a religious nut, moron, and so on? He shouldn't do that if he did.
But go ahead and talk with him...

Ossobuco,

Since you asked in a nice polite manner, I am going to point out the specific places Frank was totally inappropriate.

"...but I don't want you people imposing your silly beliefs and Gods on the rest of us." - Page 5

"And all I said was that I don't want you hypocrites imposing your will on the rest of us." - Page 11

"According to your idiotic religion, MA..." - Page 11

"And I am a hell a lot more rational in my responses than you poor deluded sheep." - Page 12

Bella Dea Wrote: "Boy, I just love getting beat up for my beliefs, don't you?" - Page 12

Frank's Response: "Good then you should stick around because if that is so, I'm gonna make you very, very happy." Page 12

"...willing to cater to you religious nuts..." - Page 16

It was in another thread that he called me insane and a moron. Now, you cannot tell me that this is not, at the very least, offensive and discriminatory to Christians. If he would just tone the language down and stop accusing us of forcing our beliefs upon him when we are taking great pains to make it clear that the beliefs are ours and we are merely stating them. NO ONE HAS SAID TO FRANK OR ANYONE ELSE IN HERE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HELL. The only judgements anyone has made are the ones on Frank's behavior. And, he proves our point for us with his name calling and ridicule of the God we believe in and our beliefs.

I like Frank too. I like to think of his neck veins bulging out as he struggles to be 'nice'.

Momma! Those insults are badges of honor from Frank. Cherish them.

Yeah, he should mind his p's and q's on the personal bit, though the first one about silly beliefs is fair game and the second, re idiotic religion is his opinion and not that you are an idiot.

I see your point on some of the others.

You've gotten your badge...

I'm sorry, Neo. I just keep coming back to how badly I feel for Frank. In order for someone to behave as he has there has to be something behind it. Who hurt him so badly he feels the need to lash out like this?

If I try to look at him through God's eyes, I don't see a mean spirited, vindictive, and hateful human being. I believe God sees Him as one of His children that needs love just like everyone else. Of course it makes me angry that he uses the hateful words he uses. I am human. I have feelings. But, I'd like to think that I can look past that and continue to try to get through to him that it would be so much nicer for EVERYONE involved in these discussions if he would just stop belittling and name calling.

In order to change something, the problem must be pointed out. I take great care in what I put in these posts. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, belittle them, etc. I try to make them understand that this is the way I believe, and I feel and not criticize them for not feeling the same way.

I look at this world today and I see so many things that could be made better if people would just respect each other more. I am a middle-aged woman who grew up saying yes, ma'am, no sir. I was taught not to call people names or hate them for the color of their skin. I was taught to hate the sin and not the sinner. I try my best to do these things. I fail at times, as we all do. But, I believe that anyone can make a change for the better. Anyone of us can make a big difference in this world. Frank may even have some valid points along the line, but his offensive manner detracts from what he is trying to say. He keeps slapping heads and expects attention for that. And, it is just not right. Period.

There is right and there is wrong. I keep learning things in these threads. But, it seems when Frank interjects his abuiveness, we get off track and the learning stops. I already know how not to act. I want to hear more of the history of these things. I want to hear more of everyone's opinions.