Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:08 pm
snood wrote:
Intrepid - face it. Right and wrong? You're gonna have to dumb down the conversation considerably to reach some folk (or throw in a buncha mystical sounding psychobabble - same dif). You gotta get to the level of your audience, y'know?


Thanks for the advice Snood. I have tried, but I just don't seem to have what it takes to get there. <sigh>

I am off to find some psychobabble as we speek.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 10:10 pm
Doktor S wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
real life wrote:
Eorl wrote:
real life,

If you remove the rhetorical language, you can look objectively at the value of that which is lost....and subjective value is absolutely the point.


The fact that people experience different levels of grief under different circumstances in no way means that one person's life is worth less than another's.

What defines a persons worth?


What value do you place on your own life?

The highest.
But I don't get upset when I read about a plane crash or how many strangers had died of cancer that week.
And I would wager you don't either.


You would lose your wager. Then again, someone who thinks he is a god and does not pray to the true God wouldn't understand the love of fellow man who undergoes adversity or the families of those who die.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 11:22 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Not just like me. Many, many people with differerent views and values than me do, however, share the reverence for human life. What do you value?

Ahh, so people who revere human life say abortion is wrong. Gotcha.
What of those that don't agree a fetus constitutes human life?
And what exactly makes the human animal any better than any other type? Do you mourn your steak or your hotdog? Maybe your vegan. How about plant life?
Just humans, huh.
What makes 'human life' so special anyway?

What if I told you I do think aborting a baby is a sort of killing, and that it didn't bother me in the slightest?
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2006 11:25 pm
Quote:

You would lose your wager. Then again, someone who thinks he is a god and does not pray to the true God wouldn't understand the love of fellow man who undergoes adversity or the families of those who die.


ROFL
Of course, only religious people feel empathy and sorrow. How absurd of me to think otherwise!

But seriously, I highly doubt your claims of feeling actual concern for the deaths of total strangers. If this is really the case, you must be in a constant state of grief. How sad.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 07:38 am
Intrepid wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

It is wrong

Say's who?


Responsible, intelligent, caring and moral people.... that's who.


I don't doubt I am more responsible, caring and moral (you can have "intelligent") than you when it comes to my position on abortion. The suffering that would be caused by your "principle" in practice is barbaric, dangerous and cruel to actual real people (as opposed to mere potential people up to 80% of whom won't become people anyway due to the normal biological process of miscarriage).

If you're right about conception instantly creating complete human beings then everything you say makes perfect sense....but if you're WRONG about that... then you are wrong about EVERYTHING that stems from that wrong assumption.

As I've said before, if you want the world to come with you, you've got to prove you're right about that initial assumption, instead of taking that as a given and making judgements about the rest of us from that standpoint.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 08:25 am
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

You would lose your wager. Then again, someone who thinks he is a god and does not pray to the true God wouldn't understand the love of fellow man who undergoes adversity or the families of those who die.


ROFL
Of course, only religious people feel empathy and sorrow. How absurd of me to think otherwise!

But seriously, I highly doubt your claims of feeling actual concern for the deaths of total strangers. If this is really the case, you must be in a constant state of grief. How sad.


Hey blowhard - Intrepid asked what you value. Can't you answer a simple question?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 08:41 am
snood wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

You would lose your wager. Then again, someone who thinks he is a god and does not pray to the true God wouldn't understand the love of fellow man who undergoes adversity or the families of those who die.


ROFL
Of course, only religious people feel empathy and sorrow. How absurd of me to think otherwise!

But seriously, I highly doubt your claims of feeling actual concern for the deaths of total strangers. If this is really the case, you must be in a constant state of grief. How sad.


Hey blowhard - Intrepid asked what you value. Can't you answer a simple question?


Well, without calling him names (though I am sympathetic to that in this case), I can assure you that Doktor does not answer direct questions that would in any way compromise his own particular and quite poorly defined rationale for his opinions. He generally just ignores pertinent questions and goes on to the next insult which is not helpful to the discussion, of course, but does beautifully illustrate the emptiness of much of the pro-abortion position.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 08:55 am
snood wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

You would lose your wager. Then again, someone who thinks he is a god and does not pray to the true God wouldn't understand the love of fellow man who undergoes adversity or the families of those who die.


ROFL
Of course, only religious people feel empathy and sorrow. How absurd of me to think otherwise!

But seriously, I highly doubt your claims of feeling actual concern for the deaths of total strangers. If this is really the case, you must be in a constant state of grief. How sad.


Hey blowhard - Intrepid asked what you value. Can't you answer a simple question?

Actually, my less than observant theistic chum, he asked me what value I placed on my own life, to which I replied 'The highest'. Do try to pay attention.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 09:06 am
Foxfyre wrote:



Well, without calling him names (though I am sympathetic to that in this case), I can assure you that Doktor does not answer direct questions that would in any way compromise his own particular and quite poorly defined rationale for his opinions. He generally just ignores pertinent questions and goes on to the next insult which is not helpful to the discussion, of course, but does beautifully illustrate the emptiness of much of the pro-abortion position.

Psychological projection at it's finest. Smile

No, the truth is you don't like that I aggressively challenge your comfortable fairy tale belief system. That someone in your position would question someones rational borders on the absurd.
Firstly, I do not directly insult people. That has been largely the domain of the christian contingent (see: snoods last post) Point out where I have done this or retract the statement.
Secondly, I do not dodge or ignore questions. As my philosophy sits on firm logical grounding, I have no need to use diversion tactics or rhetorical dodges, again, this has been the domain largely of the christian contingent (see: anything ever posted by 'real life').
I challenge you to point out an instance of me dodging a question, or retract the statement.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 09:20 am
Doktor S wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:



Well, without calling him names (though I am sympathetic to that in this case), I can assure you that Doktor does not answer direct questions that would in any way compromise his own particular and quite poorly defined rationale for his opinions. He generally just ignores pertinent questions and goes on to the next insult which is not helpful to the discussion, of course, but does beautifully illustrate the emptiness of much of the pro-abortion position.

Psychological projection at it's finest. Smile

No, the truth is you don't like that I aggressively challenge your comfortable fairy tale belief system. That someone in your position would question someones rational borders on the absurd.
Firstly, I do not directly insult people. That has been largely the domain of the christian contingent (see: snoods last post) Point out where I have done this or retract the statement.
Secondly, I do not dodge or ignore questions. As my philosophy sits on firm logical grounding, I have no need to use diversion tactics or rhetorical dodges, again, this has been the domain largely of the christian contingent (see: anything ever posted by 'real life').
I challenge you to point out an instance of me dodging a question, or retract the statement.


You have little or no insight into what is truth for me. Answering a different question is not the same thing as answering the question asked. Changing the premise of a statement is not the same thing as addressing a statement. As far as "anything ever posted by 'real life' and. . .

...as far as dodging a question--in this case a challenge--try this one:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1941782#1941782

Which you have yet to address in any way other than a dodge.

(Also apologies to Real Life who is so well researched and whose arguments have been so consistently well formulated, I assumed he just had to be a she. Smile (Intrepid gently straightened me out on that.)
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 09:25 am
Doktor S wrote:
snood wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

You would lose your wager. Then again, someone who thinks he is a god and does not pray to the true God wouldn't understand the love of fellow man who undergoes adversity or the families of those who die.


ROFL
Of course, only religious people feel empathy and sorrow. How absurd of me to think otherwise!

But seriously, I highly doubt your claims of feeling actual concern for the deaths of total strangers. If this is really the case, you must be in a constant state of grief. How sad.


Hey blowhard - Intrepid asked what you value. Can't you answer a simple question?

Actually, my less than observant theistic chum, he asked me what value I placed on my own life, to which I replied 'The highest'. Do try to pay attention.



I observe just fine, "chum".

Intrepid:

Quote:
Not just like me. Many, many people with differerent views and values than me do, however, share the reverence for human life. What do you value?
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 09:42 am
ff,
Quote:

You have little or no insight into what is truth for me.

That you would use the word truth without context does much to answer this question. Wink
Quote:

Answering a different question is not the same thing as answering the question asked. Changing the premise of a statement is not the same thing as addressing a statement. As far as "anything ever posted by 'real life' and. . .

...as far as dodging a question--in this case a challenge--try this one:

Ahh yes, your little 'disprove real lifes opinions' tirade you were on. That you haven't figured out how ridiculous that is yet tickles me pink.
You seem to be the poster child for cognitive dissonance.
Quote:

Which you have yet to address in any way other than a dodge.

Since you couldn't be bothered to state but one single example of an opinion of 'real lifes' that you support, I had nothing to dodge, and in fact, no reason to think you had even read any of real lifes posts. That you were being lazy does not constitute a 'dodge' on my part, but it does indicate weak debating skills on yours Smile

Again, produce an example of me dodging/ignoring a question. (refusal do do your homework just doesn't count I'm afraid) or retract the statement you made.

And apparently you lack the courage to retract your claim about me name calling? Back it up or retract it, or remain
silent as a liar.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 09:45 am
snood wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
snood wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

You would lose your wager. Then again, someone who thinks he is a god and does not pray to the true God wouldn't understand the love of fellow man who undergoes adversity or the families of those who die.


ROFL
Of course, only religious people feel empathy and sorrow. How absurd of me to think otherwise!

But seriously, I highly doubt your claims of feeling actual concern for the deaths of total strangers. If this is really the case, you must be in a constant state of grief. How sad.


Hey blowhard - Intrepid asked what you value. Can't you answer a simple question?

Actually, my less than observant theistic chum, he asked me what value I placed on my own life, to which I replied 'The highest'. Do try to pay attention.



I observe just fine, "chum".

Intrepid:

Quote:
Not just like me. Many, many people with differerent views and values than me do, however, share the reverence for human life. What do you value?

That you seem to be ignoring my answer to the question 'what value do you place on your life' also answers the previous question smacks of dishonesty.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 09:59 am
Doktor S wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
Not just like me. Many, many people with differerent views and values than me do, however, share the reverence for human life. What do you value?

Ahh, so people who revere human life say abortion is wrong. Gotcha.
What of those that don't agree a fetus constitutes human life?
And what exactly makes the human animal any better than any other type? Do you mourn your steak or your hotdog? Maybe your vegan. How about plant life?
Just humans, huh.
What makes 'human life' so special anyway?

What if I told you I do think aborting a baby is a sort of killing, and that it didn't bother me in the slightest?


So DO you actually equate human life with plant life ? Then why are there penalties for killing humans, but not for plants?

Or is this just another rhetorical dodge because your position completely lacks coherence and substance?

Since you don't seem to have a problem with killing, even if you acknowledge it as such, we can only be thankful that only a miniscule fraction of the population shares your lack of moral sense.

That being the case also, your fringe view is probably irrelevant to the issue at large.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:04 am
Yer losin' it - if you ever had it to lose - you never asked me anything....
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:04 am
Doktor S wrote:
ff,
Quote:

You have little or no insight into what is truth for me.

That you would use the word truth without context does much to answer this question. Wink

I used 'truth' as you used it. That's not in context enough for you?

Quote:

Answering a different question is not the same thing as answering the question asked. Changing the premise of a statement is not the same thing as addressing a statement. As far as "anything ever posted by 'real life' and. . .

...as far as dodging a question--in this case a challenge--try this one:

Ahh yes, your little 'disprove real lifes opinions' tirade you were on. That you haven't figured out how ridiculous that is yet tickles me pink.
You seem to be the poster child for cognitive dissonance.
Quote:

Which you have yet to address in any way other than a dodge.


Where is there anything other than an insult in this? What question would a reasonable person glean from it?

Since you couldn't be bothered to state but one single example of an opinion of 'real lifes' that you support, I had nothing to dodge, and in fact, no reason to think you had even read any of real lifes posts. That you were being lazy does not constitute a 'dodge' on my part, but it does indicate weak debating skills on yours Smile

Not at all. I held out ANY of Real Life's comments as supportable. I never said I agreed with each one, but I did challenge you to pick ANY of Real Life's posts and demonstrate how they were as bad as you said they were. I mean if they are ALL as bad as you say, how hard could it be to pick out just one? So far you have been unable to do so.

Again, produce an example of me dodging/ignoring a question. (refusal do do your homework just doesn't count I'm afraid) or retract the statement you made.

I've done my homework and I produced a link to an example. I just wanted you to demonstrate that you have in any way done yours.
And apparently you lack the courage to retract your claim about me name calling? Back it up or retract it, or remain
silent as a liar.


And I will retract it or back it up if you can produce any quote of mine in which I accused you of name calling.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:31 am
FF
Quote:

I used 'truth' as you used it. That's not in context enough for you?

Nope. there is a huge difference between the nebulous concept of 'truth', and 'the' truth regarding a specific issue.





Quote:

Not at all. I held out ANY of Real Life's comments as supportable. I never said I agreed with each one, but I did challenge you to pick ANY of Real Life's posts and demonstrate how they were as bad as you said they were. I mean if they are ALL as bad as you say, how hard could it be to pick out just one? So far you have been unable to do so.

Yawn. cognitive dissonance indeed.

Quote:

And I will retract it or back it up if you can produce any quote of mine in which I accused you of name calling.


foxfyre wrote:
He generally just ignores pertinent questions and goes on to the next insult which is not helpful to the discussion

You have yet to produce an example of either of these things you accuse me of. I'll just assume you are going to stick to your dishonest 'neener neener' approach and be done with you I think. Come back when you have a basic understanding of logical debate.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:33 am
real life wrote:

Or is this just another rhetorical dodge because your position completely lacks coherence and substance?

Must be a clearance sale at the psychological projection warehouse today or something.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:34 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Also apologies to Real Life who is so well researched and whose arguments have been so consistently well formulated, I assumed he just had to be a she. (Intrepid gently straightened me out on that


Oh zat so? Only the ladies can be logical? Laughing

Love ya Foxfyre. My wife and you would get along famously, I am sure.

I thank you for your kind words and I am glad each time I see that public opinion, especially among the young, is headed in the pro-life direction.

The radical support for abortion on demand is headed for the dustbin of history; and it's no surprise that younger folks who could have been the victims of abortion, but escaped, see it for the evil that it is.
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2006 10:38 am
snood wrote:
Yer losin' it - if you ever had it to lose - you never asked me anything....

Are you really that lost? Razz
By the 'previous question' I was refereing to the question to me from intrepid you quoted in your previous post.
This is getting amusing..like something from abbott and costello get alzheimers.
0 Replies
 
 

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