ABORTION.......

Foxfyre- I'm an old broad, and proud of it. I have no problem with the word "Granny" when it is used in a friendly way. When it is thrown out simply to insult, to me it is no different than calling a person by a demeaning racial or religious slur.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Frank, if you can find a single quote of mind where I referred to anyone with the term 'baby killer' I'll send a $100 contribution to Planned Parenthood. Nor have I told a single lie except in your own wierd mind. I've already withdrawn from the debate, but I'll have to keep pointing out the lack of merit (or truth) in your insults directed at me.

You people are a laugh...but most especially you, Fox.

I cannot count the times you have referred to a woman choosing to terminate her pregnancy as "killing a baby."

How else can that possibly be interpreted...except as calling those who perform abortions as baby-killers...and as calling those who support a woman's right to choose to terminate her pregnancy...as abettors of baby-killing.

As for you being a liar...

...well you have on several occasions said that you are not trying to take away any rights from a woman.

But you most assuredly are. You are trying to take away her right to terminate her pregnancy if she chooses.

I've called that to your attention...and you have continued to assert it.

YOU ARE A LIAR.

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Phoenix, I know. I take into consideration the intent. And I don't mind a friendly insult either when I know it is good nature. Sometimes tit for tat is more funny than insulting. But there are degrees of insult too, so maybe its all relative.

Anyhow, I suspect we are very close contemporaries. Smile

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And I stand by my earlier comment.

I have had many, many more insults thrown my way than I have hurled to others....especially during the last month.

I have made a concerted effort to stop all (what is referred to as) foul language...

...and except for that moronic caricature of a god described in the Bible (and maybe Dumbya)...I have tried never to call anyone any names.

And I think I've been successful.

But I don't sit around crying about people calling me names. I continue to fight the fight I think is appropriate.

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Frank, I don't stand around crying when you or anybody else starts throwing out the personal insults. I could go back and copy and paste all of yours over the last few days, but frankly, I don't care enough to go to the trouble. You said I had used the term "Baby killer". I haven't. Ever. Does that make you a liar?

I just figure since you can't find much to support your position other than insulting your opponent, you're just blowing smoke.

I have as much right to say that the unborn child is a baby, a human being, as you have a right to say that it is not. And I have as much right to say that the adults responsible for the unborn baby should take care of it to be best of their ability as much as you have a right to say they can kill it at any time, any place, for any reason.

And every single one of the prolifers have stated they would not want abortion to be made illegal in all circumstances, but also want protections for the unborn. That is our right.

I even used the analogy of the woman who is stressed out, worn out, sleep deprived, and thoroughly disgusted with the screaming child she brought into the world. It is very definitely affecting her body. But she can't kill it. If there was a circumstance that she had to nurse it or it would die of starvation, would a court of law require her to nurse it? I don't know, but I suspect she could be held liable if she did not.

Prolifers see that as little different than the responsibility she has for the unborn baby.

And here I got sucked back into it, didn't I? After saying that I intended to withdraw from the debate.

So you can call me a liar for that if you like.

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Frank,

You just hold it right there Mr.! How many times have I asked you not to ridicule me or my beliefs or ask you not to call them idiotic or moronic? Huh Frank? How many? And yet, you tell me that you are not calling me those names you are speaking of my beliefs!

What the heck is the difference here? You are the one that pointed this out! We have NOT called you or anyone else a baby killer! Those were your words!

I suggest you start eating them!

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Don't forget all the times he accused us of "wanting to strip women of all their rights" Momma Smile

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Yeah! What Foxfyre said!

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It is my opinion that a woman has a right to terminate a pregnancy if she chooses to do so...

...that no one in this thread or the government should prevent her from exercising that right should she chose to do so...

...that a fertilized egg is a fertilized egg; a zygote is a zygote; an embryo is an embryo; and a fetus is a fetus...and that none of those things is "a living human being.

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And, it is my opinion, that a woman does not have the right to take the life of her child because she chooses to do so.

...that it is my responsibility to try to protect the rights of the child....

....that the fertilized egg is a growing human being...

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Yeah, what Momma Angel said!

Yours truly,

The lying, idiot Intrepid ;-)

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Foxfyre wrote:

I even used the analogy of the woman who is stressed out, worn out, sleep deprived, and thoroughly disgusted with the screaming child she brought into the world. It is very definitely affecting her body. But she can't kill it. If there was a circumstance that she had to nurse it or it would die of starvation, would a court of law require her to nurse it? I don't know, but I suspect she could be held liable if she did not.

Prolifers see that as little different than the responsibility she has for the unborn baby.

Of course you are right Foxfyre.

Interesting article at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12208017&dopt=Abstract

Several points are worthy of note:

The synonomous use of the terms "fetus" and "child"

The argument that these unborn children are deserving of protection from harm inflicted on them in utero.

Keep up the good work Foxfyre.

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frank apisa wrote:

...well you have on several occasions said that you are not trying to take away any rights from a woman

We go on the idea that abortion is murder........murder was never a right granted by the constitution. It was something foolishly granted to the masses of people who choose the easy way out.

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

frank apisa wrote:
...well you have on several occasions said that you are not trying to take away any rights from a woman

We go on the idea that abortion is murder........murder was never a right granted by the constitution. It was something foolishly granted to the masses of people who choose the easy way out.

In the United States, Thunder...the Supreme Court decides what the constituion grants and does not grant....not you.

The Supreme Court has decided that the constitution does grant a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy if she chooses.

Anyone trying to take away that right away from a woman...but who asserts they are not trying to take any rights away from a woman...is lying.

Live with it.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

thunder_runner32 wrote:
frank apisa wrote:
...well you have on several occasions said that you are not trying to take away any rights from a woman

We go on the idea that abortion is murder........murder was never a right granted by the constitution. It was something foolishly granted to the masses of people who choose the easy way out.

In the United States, Thunder...the Supreme Court decides what the constituion grants and does not grant....not you.

The Supreme Court has decided that the constitution does grant a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy if she chooses.

Anyone trying to take away that right away from a woman...but who asserts they are not trying to take any rights away from a woman...is lying.

Live with it.

Thunder,

In my opinion, go ahead and tell Frank, yes, you are trying to deny the woman the right to make that choice. I told him. In our efforts to SAVE INNOCENT BABIES the woman will lose her right to choice. But, understand this Frank, I never thought she had that right to make that choice in the first place. I don't believe anyone has the right to kill an innocent baby whether it is just conceived, 6 weeks in the womb.....8 months and 29 days in the womb. I believe it is wrong.

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Momma Angel wrote:

[Thunder,

In my opinion, go ahead and tell Frank, yes, you are trying to deny the woman the right to make that choice. I told him. In our efforts to SAVE INNOCENT BABIES the woman will lose her right to choice. But, understand this Frank, I never thought she had that right to make that choice in the first place. I don't believe anyone has the right to kill an innocent baby whether it is just conceived, 6 weeks in the womb.....8 months and 29 days in the womb. I believe it is wrong.

Okay...you "believe" it is wrong.

I don't.

The Supreme Court decides if it is a right or not.

Whether they are right or wrong in their decision really doesn't play a part in what we are discussing here. If they decide it is a right...IT IS A RIGHT.

And if you are trying to take that "right" away...it makes no sense to insist you are NOT trying to take it away.

Even you see the inconsistency.

So????

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Momma Angel Wrote:

Quote:

....................In our efforts to SAVE INNOCENT BABIES the woman will lose her right to choice.................................

I guess you missed the part where I am ADMITTING I AGREE I AM TRYING TO TAKE AWAY THE RIGHT! I don't deny it. I won't deny it. and I will lobby to change the law!

Now, is it clear?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Momma Angel Wrote:

Quote:
....................In our efforts to SAVE INNOCENT BABIES the woman will lose her right to choice.................................

I guess you missed the part where I am ADMITTING I AGREE I AM TRYING TO TAKE AWAY THE RIGHT! I don't deny it. I won't deny it. and I will lobby to change the law!

Now, is it clear?

Try considering the "you" as a universal "you", MA...and maybe you will be able to keep yourself under control.

You really don't look good when you lose control they way you have been.

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Frank,

Since you quoted ME I assumed you meant me. I am not losing control. Just emphasizing hoping you would at least read those words.

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Considering all the discussion in this thread about Fox making the assertion that she is not trying to take away any rights from women...while trying her best to take rights away from women...

...I cannot understand why you thought I was zeroing in on you.

But...you only seem able to understand things clearly when written by people with whom you agree.

Rather selective understanding!

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ABORTION.......

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