ABORTION.......

Foxfyre wrote:

Nobody is trying to take away the rights of the woman. We are trying to protect what we see are the unalienable right to life of the unborn. And yes, there are then those difficult choices that must be made re rape, incest, certain health issues, etc. Maybe a case can be made for it being more ethical to terminate a pregnancy before we know whether it is even viable as opposed to terminating it after the body and brain has formed and the heart is beating. These are all things that reasonable people can certainly consider.

But all are moot so long as the pro-abortionists assign subhuman status to the unborn and consider it dispensable at whatever whim of the host parent.

I've told you several times, the women who are getting abortions do not assign subhuman status to the unborn. You are lying when you say this... or just don't know what you're talking about.

It has been explained to you dozens of times.

"What's up"...is that either you cannot or will not understand the explanation.

Slaughtered in the womb? Thousands of childless couples... well there are millions... 35 million abortions per year. Who is going to take care of all those? If you have say 100,000 couples taking 35 million children who would otherwise be "slaughtered" then ... let's see... that's.... uhm... 350 children... per year.... per couple. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to take on that responsibility.

I think that masturbation is a normal part of the human sexual sphere. Maybe you should think about it and you'd come back into the real world. I bring it up because I see that human sperm as an issue in this. If there weren't any of those, we wouldn't be having a problem. If men would just masturbate more, women wouldn't get pregnant.

The arrogance is deciding that she isn't taking responsibility.
The arrogance is seeing her fetus as more important than the entire rest of her life.
The arrogance is seeing that every sexual act by a woman under your strange and awful system would mean that she may be risking pregnancy... despite any precautions she has.

If they aren't aborted, they'll be born, then they'll be destroyed. Here's a recent description from a medical exam performed this week on a child who was sexually abused. The little girl, between the ages of 4 and 7, gets kicked in the face by her father for not sharing. Has been kicked several times and lost teeth, constantly bruised. She wonders how she can keep him from kicking her. She has also been sexually abused by her older brother, but her father only cries about that... then kicks her and keeps humping her mother who has poured out three more children younger than this girl and is now pregnant again. Now there's a life being destroyed in front of our eyes.

Actually, Americans have made a decision. You just don't like it and so you're trying to change that decision.

I wonder how long those noses are that look down on these fallen women? Will they feed and clothe and school those children? Will they care for them and keep them out of mischief?

Then you obviously haven't been in the lines and seen what is really happening.

Oh yes, they are fallen women... and they've danced the responsibility dance. And they need to take responsibility for their actions. If their birth control didn't work... darn it. They've got another kid and they need to take responsibility for it. Of course, choosing abortion, in your eyes, is not taking responsibility for that.

It is perfectly clear to me that if abortion were made illegal, which despite the back-pedaling of Momma (this is not a black and white issue) Angel and Fox (I'm not saying I'd be against all abortion) Fyre is just what you want.

I see how doctors, under your mishmash of reasoning, could be sentenced to crimes for performing abortions.... and in fact, have been murdered and attacked by the vigilante actions of the anti-choice-pro-life-I'll choose-for-you-crowd.

I see how the entire sorry spectacle is part of the greater fear and hatred that you people... yes... you people.... have for the inherent sexuality of our species.

I see how doctors, under your mishmash of reasoning, could be sentenced to crimes for performing abortions.... and in fact, have been murdered and attacked by the vigilante actions of the anti-choice-pro-life-I'll choose-for-you-crowd.

I see how the entire sorry spectacle is part of the greater fear and hatred that you people... yes... you people.... have for the inherent sexuality of our species.

At least my argument has more substance than 'it is so because I say so" and 'anybody who disagrees is stupid, lying, pathetic or any number of uncomplimentary adjectives hich is about all that Frank can come up with.

Well, it seems a lot has been said. Sorry I missed it at the time. Let's see if I can catch up.

Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:

It has been explained to you dozens of times.

"What's up"...is that either you cannot or will not understand the explanation.

What's up is that even when we explain something to you that you seem to think we should be following as to what it means to us you ignore it. You continually post verses from the OT and we have explained them and the NT to you and the ENTIRE concept of God. Yet, you dismiss it and post again and again and again your OT verses with the same questions.

And Frank,

With all that analyzing of 'us', did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night or do you have a degree in psychology or psychiatry?

Foxfyre wrote:

At least my argument has more substance than 'it is so because I say so" and 'anybody who disagrees is stupid, lying, pathetic or any number of uncomplimentary adjectives hich is about all that Frank can come up with.

Well...as a matter of fact, Fox...you have been much, much more nasty than I have been in this discussion we've been having.

As for "substance"...my arguments are every bit as substantive as your....and you deciding they are not does not impact on that. And, your "substance" includes an obvious LIE...namely that you are not trying to take away any women's rights.

But...you do provide laughs...and what more can one ask of a fellow human being who was once a fetus, an embryo, a zygote, a fertilized egg...and from all indications, part of a star.

I love you, Fox....despite all your faults, pretentions...and the fact that you would lie so blatantly to try to support your efforts to take rights away from women.

I love you.

Actually, my graduate work was in psychology...although my undergrad majors were economoics and philosophy.

Actually, my graduate work was in psychology...although my undergrad majors were economoics and philosophy.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:

Actually, my graduate work was in psychology...although my undergrad majors were economoics and philosophy.

What exactly is economoics?

I wouldn't put much stock into what Frank says about you being nasty. (IMO) you have been straightforward but you have not resorted to the same tactics as others have.

And Frank, yes, I will say this. In trying to protect the child, I the woman's right to make that choice will be taken away.

Tell you what, you give up your right to fight this abortion issue and I will give up my right to fight you on the religion issue? Not much chance of that is there? So, let's lay off on taking away rights, ok?

Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:

Actually, my graduate work was in psychology...although my undergrad majors were economoics and philosophy.

Well, then it's a good thing I didn't pay you anything. I would have had to sue you for a missed diagnosis.

Frank,

That's not nice! I am not delusional. Look, I have had therapy for years after my childhood. Delusional is one thing I most definitely am not.

So you are saying that the women who are getting abortions are intentionally killing a human baby?

Oh well. That makes it okay then.

Frank,

That's not nice! I am not delusional. Look, I have had therapy for years after my childhood. Delusional is one thing I most definitely am not.

Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

That's not nice! I am not delusional. Look, I have had therapy for years after my childhood. Delusional is one thing I most definitely am not.

No MommaAngel, you are not in the least bit dilusional.

You, Real Life, and some others would probably vote to be somewhat more restrictive in abortion laws than I would probably vote--I would have to think on that more--but you have not been in the least bit irrational, inconsistent, or delusional, and I can't fault you for your position on this issue.

It still boils down to the fact that 'they' have to a) agree that killing a human baby is okay

... or b) relegate the growing baby to subhuman status in order to justify abortion.

They are unable to justify either point so they can't have a debate on anything other than the most superficial level.

And because they cannot justify it on anything other than the most superficial level, they have to ridicule and insult and accuse the prolifers with ridiculous charges or try to deflect to something else.

We are probably beating our heads against a brick wall. But at least we know we are on the defensible side of the issue.

Yeah...you holy rollers want to vote on whether or not a woman can make a decision to terminate a pregnancy or not. You seem to think it is perfectly okay for you folks to make that decision for her...but that there is something wrong with her making it for herself.

Egad. What do they feed you to get into this condition?

I've told you several times, the women who are getting abortions do not assign subhuman status to the unborn.

Foxfyre wrote:

So you are saying that the women who are getting abortions are intentionally killing a human baby?

Oh well. That makes it okay then.

I don't think I said that, but I will, if you want. If a woman who finds herself pregnant decides to terminate her pregnancy, then she is surely losing that child. She is making the choice to not let it be born. She has looked at the options for herself and her family and sees that she cannot handle the trauma of pregnancy, the having a baby and raising it. You don't think she has the right. I do.

I am particularly incensed that you assume there is no grief, no concern, no questions... it is uncalled-for and a bitter way for Pro-Life people to pat themselves on the back. I guess that way you can huddle together and be sure you're doing the right thing.

The right thing in my opinion is to take care of the living, breathing human who lives right down the street.

That you think you should make the choice for that woman and her family... is patriarchal government, repressive and unfeeling at its very worst. Not only that, you are arguing against the law of the land WHILE your duly promoted president is waging hideous uncalled-for war even now, killing not just fetuses but babies and children and women and men.


That you refuse to discuss those 35 million babies who would need to be cared-for, or the flat-footed agenda of Pro-Life becomes absurd.

Roll your eyes, it suits you.

The argument of Pro-Life is based on beliefs that I don't happen to share... I don't believe in fate vs science. I don't believe that "things happen for a reason" and I don't believe birth control should be controlled by someone other than the person giving birth.

Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:

Yeah...you holy rollers want to vote on whether or not a woman can make a decision to terminate a pregnancy or not. You seem to think it is perfectly okay for you folks to make that decision for her...but that there is something wrong with her making it for herself.

Egad. What do they feed you to get into this condition?

Let's rewrite that shall we Frank? Let's see...

You non-believers (specifically Frank) want to vote whether or not a person can make the decision to practice Christianity or not. You seem to think it is perfectly okay for you folks to make that decision for others...but that there is something wrong with us making it for ourselves.

Frank, I couldn't have said it better myself!