Foxfyre wrote:
My group? I haven't even discussed the morning after pill. I don't recall anyone else discussing the morning after pill. Perhaps we could keep the discussion on the pertinent points that have been raised.
I put you in the Pro-Life group. Do you want to become a member of the Pro-Choice group?
The Morning-After Pill is extremely pertinent to this discussion, because it absolutely proves my point. Your group is afraid of sex and hates women. Even the women among you hate women.
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I don't know. I haven't asked anyone what they think about masturbation. I don't think about it much. Do you think about it a lot? You must think about it more than I do since you brought it up, so what do you think about it?
I think that masturbation is a normal part of the human sexual sphere. Maybe you should think about it and you'd come back into the real world. I bring it up because I see that human sperm as an issue in this. If there weren't any of those, we wouldn't be having a problem. If men would just masturbate more, women wouldn't get pregnant.
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I don't see a human egg or a human sperm as an issue. These are natural products of the human body that regularly occur from the time of puberty and require no conscious choice on our part. I do see a developing baby within the womb as a living human being deserving of all the consideration we give to any human being.
No conscious choice? Except where responsibility is concerned, yes?
The human egg and the human sperm are exactly the issue. What part of the sexual act do you not understand? I am amazed that someone of your age never got this.
Quote:specifically that the foetus is seen as sub-human, non-person, dispensible or whatever.
I told you in a long and heart-felt description that in fact, a woman who makes a choice has very, very strong feelings for her fetus. It is you who pretends that she does not. How many people have you counseled when they're pregnant anyway?
Quote:Quite the contrary. I see her as a person who has chosen to risk taking on the responsibility of another life. Once that responsibility is hers, then I see her as a person quite capable of making good choices for the well being of the baby for which she now has responsibility. How arrogant is it to assume that she is incapable of handling the responsibility she has taken on or that the baby's life or anybody's life is of no importance or consequence?
The arrogance is deciding that she isn't taking responsibility.
The arrogance is seeing her fetus as more important than the entire rest of her life.
The arrogance is seeing that every sexual act by a woman under your strange and awful system would mean that she may be risking pregnancy... despite any precautions she has.
So let's get back to the Morning-After Pill. Why is it that this pill is so hard to acquire? Wh do teenagers needs permission to get it?
It would be a simple solution for many and they wouldn't have to resort to abortion. But no, your group (Yes, your group... you haven't proved yourself to be anything other than a no-choicer except my choice Pro-Lifer) ... your group wants to keep this away from desperate women and has done everything they can think of to keep it out of women's hands.
Quote:Could you find me a quote from any of the prolifers in this thread that suggest they are willing to play fast and loose with the health and well-being of the living women and their families?
Every single time they demand that women can't have a choice in their pregnancy, they are playing fast and loose with those who are alive.
Quote:I believe most, if not all, are quite willing to keep abortion safe and legal. But every single one of us is not willing to kill a baby just because it was not wanted or is inconvenient to the adult who took it on.[/b]
How can this possibly be both? Unless you are willing to leave the law as it is? You group tell us that the 32 cell fetus is a baby. A BABY.
I'm astounded that you say you'd keep abortion safe and legal... please tell me what the circumstances would be for this?
Quote:If we "close the gap" of willful destruction of unborn children purely for the convenience of the mother, I think there will be a whole lot less destruction of unborn children.
Actually, you are completely wrong on that.
If they aren't aborted, they'll be born, then they'll be destroyed. Here's a recent description from a medical exam performed this week on a child who was sexually abused. The little girl, between the ages of 4 and 7, gets kicked in the face by her father for not sharing. Has been kicked several times and lost teeth, constantly bruised. She wonders how she can keep him from kicking her. She has also been sexually abused by her older brother, but her father only cries about that... then kicks her and keeps humping her mother who has poured out three more children younger than this girl and is now pregnant again. Now there's a life being destroyed in front of our eyes.
Quote: And, as was the case when abortion laws were far less lenient, there will not be an increase in unwanted children.
Wrong again.
Quote: When there are no quick and easy solutions for the consequences of our indiscretions, most people, even women, are quite capable of making better choices and almost certainly will.
Better choices being the choices you would have them make, not the ones they may want to make for themselves. Good grief, do you realize how patronizing that sounds?
Quote:The argument that what cannot be done legally will be done illegally is true about just about anything. But fortunately, there are only a few who take that option.[/b]
Wrong again.
Somebody has to make the decision. Who will it be?
The mother who is pregnant and imagining how best to manage her future or the "Compassionate Conservatives" ?
Quote:I would hope it is a decision that all Americans will make together. I do not think 'liberal' is synonymous with pro-abortion any more than 'conservative' is synonymous with anti-abortion. The extremists on both sides will not settle for anything other than abortion at any time, any place, for any reason or no abortions at any time, any place, for any reason. The rest of us are capable of accepting a more reasonable policy.
Actually, Americans have made a decision. You just don't like it and so you're trying to change that decision.
I wonder how long those noses are that look down on these fallen women? Will they feed and clothe and school those children? Will they care for them and keep them out of mischief?
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You see them as fallen women? How interesting. I see them as adults who are capable of accepting responsibility for the consequences of their choices and who are capable of making good choices given incentive to do so.
Then you obviously haven't been in the lines and seen what is really happening.
Oh yes, they are fallen women... and they've danced the responsibility dance. And they need to take responsibility for their actions. If their birth control didn't work... darn it. They've got another kid and they need to take responsibility for it. Of course, choosing abortion, in your eyes, is not taking responsibility for that.
Quote: There are thousands of childless couples out there who are more than eager to take on the responsibility of feeding, clothing, and schooling the few unwanted children that are brought into the world. Every one of us would have preferred that rather than be slaughtered in the womb.
Slaughtered in the womb? Thousands of childless couples... well there are millions... 35 million abortions per year. Who is going to take care of all those? If you have say 100,000 couples taking 35 million children who would otherwise be "slaughtered" then ... let's see... that's.... uhm... 350 children... per year.... per couple. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to take on that responsibility.
