ABORTION.......

There is the scientific viewpoint of life at conception and then there is the "religious" viewpoint.

I believe that since a human life is God's creation, it is just that, a human life from the second of its conception.

Frank Apisa wrote:

A fetus is a fetus. A child is a child. Try to understand the distinction.

You avoided answering the question.

So what you're saying is that all fetuses, i.e. not born, are on the level of warts and cancerous tumours?

And the minute they come out, they are fully fledged human beings with all human rights?

What are you assuming happens to the soul if the fetus is aborted?

Derevon wrote:

As for the argument that a woman has the right to do whatever she wish with her body, it's definitely not so from a Christian point of view. A Christian belongs to God and don't even have the right to kill himself/herself, let alone somebody else. In my opinion, if a woman consents to having sex, she has made her choice already. She has accepted that there is the possibility of a child being conceived, and therefore she cannot simply decide later that she doesn't want the baby.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Well that is all fine and dandy for you Christians...but I don't want you people imposing your silly beliefs and gods on the rest of us.

You asked for input from Christians, and you had it. No need to get irritated.

All I've been saying is that abortion is wrong from a Christian point of view. From an atheist/agnostic/scientific point of view it might perhaps be acceptable, but that discussion is for another thread outside the Spirituality/Religion forum I suppose.

Frank Apisa wrote:

And what if she didn't make that choice?

Do things change?

If not...why make that argument?

In my opinion, she must give birth to the baby regardless, but may choose to place the child for adoption if she is unable to support it.

Derevon,

Very, very well put. Clear, concise and to the point. Man, I wish I could articulate like that!

It is totally innocent....absolutely without any sins (except the Original Sin nonsense)...and it seems completely logical, from this Christian perspective, to suppose its soul instantly gets a free pass into Heaven...and it begins its eternity in complete bliss with the god the Christians worship.

So what is the problem?

Where is the foul?

Any of you Christians want to discuss this?

Bella,

You bring up some very good points. I ca only imagine how difficult it would be to be in any of those positions. I still believe though that abortion is wrong. There are always options other than the killing of another. I do believe that the decision is between the mother and God, as He is the ultimate authority.

Yet, I am not sure about the legalizing it. To me, that is tantamount to saying it is right. It's such a hard issue. I feel you can agree to or be sympathetic with points for both sides.

But, in my viewpoint, God's laws always take precedent. Society today is becoming so tolerant to so many things it used to be intolerant of. God has not changed His laws, man changes God's laws to bend to man's will.

That is very true, but it is still part of her. And, why should the child suffer because of something someone else did?

There is always the option of abortion. I just feel there is always an option preferable to death.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Derevon wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

A fetus becomes a child when it is born.

Let's not get into semantics over the definition of 'fetus'. When exactly does a fetus/child cease being on the level of a cancerous tumour and becomes a human being in your opinion? Surely you're not suggesting that the fetus is on the level of a cancerous tumour two seconds before he/she is born?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:

A fetus is a fetus. A child is a child. Try to understand the distinction.

So, just so I understand this. If a fetus becomes a child when it is born it would be a fetus 5 seconds before birth and it would be ok to kill the "fetus" at that point. Even an athiest like yourself should have more compassion than that.

One...I am not an atheist...no matter how you spell it.

Two...a fetus is a fetus until it stops being a fetus....and it stops being a fetus when it is born into this world as a child.

That is the way things are.

Try dealing with the way things are...rather than the way you want them to be in order to please your god.

We are now facing the fact that the murder is OK if the mother chooses it.

First, I mean there is always the option of adoption! Mistyped there.

And yes Intrepid, I asked Frank the same question. Though he never really answered it.

Momma Angel wrote:

First, I mean there is always the option of adoption! Mistyped there.

And yes Intrepid, I asked Frank the same question. Though he never really answered it.

Maybe he will answer it when he gets back from the beach today. Frank?

Momma Angel wrote:

Don't ya' just love him?

Except, I did give him a different timeframe. I asked him about two seconds before birth. You should go back and see what he posted.

He's after us Christians again.

I did read it and am dumbstruck by his answer. Not the posting of a rational person who obviously has no real knowledge of the Christian world.

But I think Frank's question in interesting. I'm curious about the notion of soul in miscarriages and still births.

If there is no baptism in those cases is limbo still the destination?

I think baptism is a way for people to feel better about stuff. A baby who can't make bad decisions and isn't baptized isn't going to hell. That would make God a monster. And the God I serve is not a monster.

Boy, I love getting beat up for my beliefs, don't you?

My guess is I have more knowledge of the Christian world than you do. I would love to take a test to decide that...and I'd be willing to put up a lot of cash betting that I would acquit myself very well.

And I am a hell of a lot more rational in my responses than you poor, deluded sheep.

Frank, you are an intelligent man but you really act ignorant sometimes.

In answer to your question, those souls go to heaven. They've committed no sin.