ABORTION.......

You didn't ask me, but I will put my two cents in. In all three cases, I would not come to the person's assistance directly, but I would call the police, and make sure that they came to the scene.

The reason I would not intervene directly is because I am not willing to sacrifice my safety for some random stranger. I could be at risk if I intervened, and the perp had a knife, a gun, or could overpower me.

If the person being hurt were someone that I loved, I then would be willing to take a greater risk.

Intrepid wrote:

Isn't that like the unbelievable comment by a member on another forum posting that those being killed in Iraq would probably die from car crashes and other tragedies anyhow so are people complaining about them dying in a war? Both cases are incredible.

Don't know what in hell you are talking about here, Intrepid...and I suspect neither do you.

It is my opinion that a woman has a right to decide if she wants to continue a pregnancy occurring in her own body...or if she wants to terminate it.

If you see that as having something to do with Iraq and car crashes...what can I tell ya???

One...the god adds to the indignity suffered by the soul by refusing it entry into heaven because it still is contaminated by Original Sin (an eventuality which was argued by several of the early Christian fathers)...or....

...two...the soul is welcomed into Christian heaven on a free pass...and begins enjoyment of salvation for all of eternity immediately...

...having suffered great pain during the abortion...but probably much, much, much, much less than it would have endured had it lived its life.

So where is the great loss for this "living human being?

Isn't that like the unbelievable comment by a member on another forum posting that those being killed in Iraq would probably die from car crashes and other tragedies anyhow so are people complaining about them dying in a war? Both cases are incredible.

Seems to me you are in no position to be judging others on offensive posts, Snood.

Fact is...the language and the supposed abuse...IS A RED HERRING.

But Christians are always looking for reasons to avoid dealing with the issues raised...and I guess this is as good a one as any.

MommaAngel- Frank is right in this instance. He was making his point by using "colorful" language, but he was not calling you a f**khead.

MommaAngel wrote:

Why should anyone want to believe or agree to anything you say when you cannot show the slightest of common courtesy?

FrankApisa wrote:

If I said "2 + 2 = 4, you dumb f**khead...would that make my math any the less valid?

maporche,

I have been mulling over some of the things you said about not being a moral compass. It raises a few questions for me. Can I ask you how would you respond in some of these situations?

1. You encounter a man beating a woman or a child on the street.
2. You have proof someone is committing incest with their child.
3. You encounter a woman being raped.

I would call the police in each of these instances. I may take more action, but it would depend on the circumstances involved (If I was carrying my gun or knife (for protection, believe me I would not pull my gun needlessly), if I was by myself and not with my girlfriend, etc). I would only take action because these are violent offenses that are against the law.

I do not see how my comment about being a moral compass in regards to the language used on this board has led you to these questions however. Obviously the situations are completely different.

Now, these are all three situations in which I believe we all agree are just plain wrong. And I understand that these are rather extreme situations. My point is this. If we would stand up for what is right at the very beginning, wouldn't it follow that perhaps things like the above might not happen as often? The problem with this statement is that it's not always clear what is right or wrong. You would prefer if everyone used your morals/beliefs, but who's to say that those are correct? Christians can't even agree on what is true or literal in the bible, how can someone govern/live based this?If you let someone get away with something wrong it's like condoning that behavior. Then if that behavior is condoned, it's easier to condone even more inappropriate behavior?

I mean this sincerely in asking you these questions. I am very interested in your answer.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

Isn't that like the unbelievable comment by a member on another forum posting that those being killed in Iraq would probably die from car crashes and other tragedies anyhow so are people complaining about them dying in a war? Both cases are incredible.

Don't know what in hell you are talking about here, Intrepid...and I suspect neither do you.

It is my opinion that a woman has a right to decide if she wants to continue a pregnancy occurring in her own body...or if she wants to terminate it.

If you see that as having something to do with Iraq and car crashes...what can I tell ya???

What a pathetic claim of ignorance. Your suspicions are unfounded because you don't have the remotest clue as to what I know and don't know. Let me refresh your apparently failing memory as to what you said and what I responded to.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:

One...the god adds to the indignity suffered by the soul by refusing it entry into heaven because it still is contaminated by Original Sin (an eventuality which was argued by several of the early Christian fathers)...or....

...two...the soul is welcomed into Christian heaven on a free pass...and begins enjoyment of salvation for all of eternity immediately...

...having suffered great pain during the abortion...but probably much, much, much, much less than it would have endured had it lived its life.

So where is the great loss for this "living human being?

Intrepid responded

Quote:

Isn't that like the unbelievable comment by a member on another forum posting that those being killed in Iraq would probably die from car crashes and other tragedies anyhow so are people complaining about them dying in a war? Both cases are incredible.

Can you see the similarity, Frank? This poster claimed that those dying in Iraq would probably die in car accidents etc. anyhow so what is the loss.

You claim that the pain that the fetus endures may be less that what it would endure had it lived it's life. You ask where is the great loss.

Other than your supportive cronies who usually come to your defence, who among us can possibly agree with this?

Frank Apisa:

Quote:

Seems to me you are in no position to be judging others on offensive posts, Snood.

Find someone else I've had repeated incidences of ugly encounters with besides you. And if you find one, compare my handful with the to-dos you get into with so many people. You can't carry on a conversation without insulting someone.

Quote:

Fact is...the language and the supposed abuse...IS A RED HERRING.

Well, I guess for you to avoid the simple truth that you're a foul mouthed goon who makes enlightening conversation difficult, it would have to be.

Quote:

But Christians are always looking for reasons to avoid dealing with the issues raised...and I guess this is as good a one as any.

Since you're so astute, find a post where I claim to be a Christian. You're so narrow minded that since I can co-exist with them, you have to toss me and them into the same "opposition". If you were an iota as bright as you try to portray, you'd notice that I simply side with people of faith in God, no matter what particular stripe.

Perhaps a little off topic, but I wonder, Frank, why you consistently abuse the TOS rules 1 through 6 and continue to do so. Do you have special immunity? Have you been doing it so long that it is now considered acceptable behaviour? Does using the * in particular parts of a word ensure your continued ability to do so? I am curious because on another board even adding * etc. to words is grounds for being barred.

Back to the issue. I disagree with your premise.

Intrepid,

What are TOS rules?

first of off MA since you don't already know, I spend a lifetime career as a member/supervisior of a child protection unit. I have personally dealt with every imaginable horror that can happen to a child. I have dealt with every excuse imaginable from "I was drunk at the time and didn't know what I was doing" to "it's none of your damn business what I do with my own family, this is between me and my god" I have investigated sexual abuse/incest cases, death by beating with a belt for a 6 month old and death by starvation for a nine year old locked in a closet (the list goes on into infinity) I have also (as a child welfare policy analyst for the state lobbied against "christian" groups who wanted/demanded that the "state" not be allowed to interfere with a "god given right" to decide "family matters" So you say "spanking" and I say "beating to death" all boils down to the same thing-child abuse. I am now retired but I can never forget the many years of self-rightous excuses I heard endlessly from "christians" "yes he/she died but that was an accident, I only meant to provide christian morality re his/her potty training" etc etc etc. I am more than willing to carry on this conversation with you re my experiences but I warn you there may be some "unpleasant" words from my keyboard.