ABORTION.......

Hi Chumly,

If you will read my post in context, it will be clearer to you.

It had been asserted by Rex that overpopulation (i.e. too many babies) were causing global warming (i.e. polar icecaps melting etc).

My question is : if humans and human activity are to blame for global warming on Earth , then what is causing the same phenomenon on Mars? Icecaps are melting there too.

My suggestion is that perhaps the sun is the cause and not humans.

That would be a reasonable guess, I would think; but not politically attractive to some since it takes the steam out of the eco-wackos argument for draconian economic restrictions, and also destroys the ludicrous justification for abortion that some try to establish when they claim that abortion is "a good thing" because easing "overpopulation" will also have the benefit of easing "global warming".

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Hi real life,

Let's start at the beginning:

Firstly where is your evidence that "the same phenomenon" is happening "on Mars"?

Phenomenon:
An occurrence, circumstance, or fact that is perceptible by the senses. pl. phe·nom·e·nons
a. An unusual, significant, or unaccountable fact or occurrence; a marvel.
b. A remarkable or outstanding person; a paragon. See Synonyms at wonder.
Philosophy. In the philosophy of Kant, an object as it is perceived by the senses, as opposed to a noumenon. Physics. An observable event

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Momma Angel wrote:

[quote]...it might be one the most charitable, selfless thing a Christian could do.

This has got to be, by far, the saddest rationalization for abortion I have ever seen. Yes, it's been stated before but I let it go. Not now.

I guess if this innocent soul of this baby would immediately go to heaven it's okay to kill it?

I guess if I or any other person that believes we are going to heaven when we die, it ought to be okay to kill us also? I mean, isn't that the charitable thing to do?

Using one's religious beliefs to kill? Hmmmm. This is something I have heard many non-religious have said happens.

I didn't realize that they were using MY religious beliefs as THEIR excuse forto do it! Shocked

[/color][/quote]

Hey, MA...it is your silly religion...not mine.

If your religion actually preaches that a human who sins is denied an eternity in bliss with that idiot god of yours...and may conceivably be consigned to a hell where the human will be tortured relentlessly and excruciatingly throughout eternity...

...then killing a human while its soul has no sin...and allowing it a free pass into heaven...

...might well be...

...as I stated...

...one the most charitable, selfless thing a Christian could do.

Instead of ranting and raving, MA...show where my reasoning is wrong.

Lemme ask this:

(AND PLEASE TRY TO GET THE HYPOTHETICAL NATURE OF THIS POST...SO I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH YOUR REGULAR MISUNDERSTANDING OF HYPOTHETICALS.)

According to your religion...according to Christianity...would the soul of Adolph Hitler be any better off today than if his mother had aborted him..rather than having carried him full term?

How about the soul of Ted Bundy?

How about the soul of Joseph Stalin?

How about my soul when I go?

According to your religion...would my soul have been any better off if my mother had aborted me during her pregnancy?

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Frank,
If I may just jump in for a second. I may be off base, but my thinking on this is that hindsight is 20/20, regardless of the abortion question.

Why would Hitler's mother have had a reason to abort him in the first place? Are you hypothesing that the acts that he committed would never have happened if she had? Do you think she would have been aware of what he would be like? Do you consider that it could have been somebody else if not him.

How do you equate this with the innocent babies that are killed by abortion. Nobody knows what they would have been like. Is this like preventive medice thinking?

Any sinner has the opporunity for redemption.

Even you. Smile

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Frank,

I don't know where Hitler's, Ted Bundy's and/or Joseph Stalin's souls are, Frank. I don't know where yours will end up either.

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You two need to try and think in a theological/philosophical perspective. This is not literalism.

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Intrepid wrote:

Frank,
If I may just jump in for a second. I may be off base, but my thinking on this is that hindsight is 20/20, regardless of the abortion question.

Jump in any time, Intrepid.

Quote:

Why would Hitler's mother have had a reason to abort him in the first place?

Who knows? Certainly not me. But that doesn't impact on my question....for does it impact on my contention that, if the religion is correct about consequences...it might be the most charitable thing a person could do.

The consequences...if the religion is correct...is that the innocent soul gets to spend eternity in Heaven...and all it misses is a few years on this planet...and the opportunity to screw things up.

Quote:

Are you hypothesing that the acts that he committed would never have happened if she had? Do you think she would have been aware of what he would be like? Do you consider that it could have been somebody else if not him.

That has absolutely nothing to do with this scenario. Deal just with what I wrote.

Quote:

How do you equate this with the innocent babies that are killed by abortion. Nobody knows what they would have been like. Is this like preventive medice thinking?

In my opinion...no "innocent babies" are "killed" by abortion. A pregnancy is terminated by abortion...a zygote, an embryo, or a fetus is expelled.

You folks are the ones wanting to make this the killing of a baby...not me.

In any case...if your religion is correct...every soul that you save by preventing abortion that ultimately is denied Heaven...has lost a great deal because of your meddling. And even one lost soul...according to your religion...is worth more than innumerable deaths.

One is the cessesion of a temporary thing...the other is the loss of eternity. Which is more important?

Quote:

Any sinner has the opporunity for redemption.

Are you suggesting that equates with "EVERY SINNER DOES GET REDEMPTION?"

Quote:

Even you.

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Thanks for the answer, Frank.

One more thing. Let us, hypothicaly of course, assume that there is no religion or heaven and that the soul does not go anywhere. You seem to think this is the case anyhow. What would your argument be towards those who think that abortion is wrong.

Actually, this is not so hypothetical because there are those who do not follow religion who still think that abortion is wrong. After all, I think that it is a moral issue more than religious.

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soul?

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Intrepid wrote:

Thanks for the answer, Frank.

One more thing. Let us, hypothicaly of course, assume that there is no religion or heaven and that the soul does not go anywhere. You seem to think this is the case anyhow. What would your argument be towards those who think that abortion is wrong.

I think abortion is wrong!

But the fact that I think abortion is wrong...does not give me any right to impose my will on a woman who has decided to terminate a pregnancy.

What would I say to myself???

Frank...keep your goddam nose out of where it does not belong.

Quote:

Actually, this is not so hypothetical because there are those who do not follow religion who still think that abortion is wrong.

Yup. I am one of them.

Quote:

After all, I think that it is a moral issue more than religious.

Not sure what that means...but go with it.

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You didn't deal with the part about the soul of the aborted baby going to heaven. I am a bit confused why you use that argument. Is it because you are discussing the issue with Christians?

What I meant by the last line is that I feel abortion is more a matter of moral conviction that just religious.

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Intrepid wrote:

You didn't deal with the part about the soul of the aborted baby going to heaven. I am a bit confused why you use that argument. Is it because you are discussing the issue with Christians?

I am not being cute here, Intrepid...but I truly do not understand what you are trying to say here.

Perhaps it would be better if you asked me a few specific questions about whatever it is you want me to "deal with" and I will respond.

Quote:

What I meant by the last line is that I feel abortion is more a matter of moral conviction that just religious.

Once again...I acknowledge that people who are not religious can find abortion to be repugnant. I personally do. I am NOT pro-abortion.

But the fact that I find abortion to be repugnant...does not, in my opinion, give me the right to stick my nose into the decision of a woman to obtain one...

...AND I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ON THIS...

...as repugnant as I feel toward abortion...

...I feel ten times more revulsion with people trying to get the government to interfere with a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy if she chooses.

I really cannot be much more forthcoming on that, Intrepid...nor can I be any clearer.

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Frank,

Why is it that you cannot seem to understand that to those of us that feel abortion is killing a child, that one's stance that a woman's right to choose is more important than a life is rather repugnant to us? Giving anyone the right to say who will live or who will die is repugnant to me. Yes, I know. It's a zygote to you. I get that. We all get that.

I'm at least glad to hear you are repugnant toward abortion. It's very hard for me to reconcile how the woman's choice would trump a life. I know, legally, I understand it all, but I think we've all pretty much gotten past the legal thing.

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Frank,one question.

Should that "right to choose" extend beyond pregnancy?

Should a woman be granted say 3 months after the birth to decide she doesnt want the child and be able to legally dump it and never look back?

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mysteryman wrote:

Frank,one question.

Should that "right to choose" extend beyond pregnancy?

Should a woman be granted say 3 months after the birth to decide she doesnt want the child and be able to legally dump it and never look back?

No.

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All I know is that I couldn't possibly see the object of my affection having forceps stuck up it pulling to bits a helpless little mite like I once was.Maybe if I had been stranded on a desert island for a few thousand years I might compromise.But I think it unlikely.

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We need more oil consumers!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11696601/

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Frank Apisa wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
Frank,one question.

Should that "right to choose" extend beyond pregnancy?

Should a woman be granted say 3 months after the birth to decide she doesnt want the child and be able to legally dump it and never look back?

No.

Then lets make it easier for you.
lets say the child is less then 14 days old.
Should a parent then be allowed to abandon that infant,and never look back?

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mysteryman wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Frank,one question.

Should that "right to choose" extend beyond pregnancy?

Should a woman be granted say 3 months after the birth to decide she doesnt want the child and be able to legally dump it and never look back?

No.

Then lets make it easier for you.
lets say the child is less then 14 days old.
Should a parent then be allowed to abandon that infant,and never look back?

Stop with the childish games, will ya. You are not anywhere near up to the job of subtlty.

What the hell are you asking?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Frank,one question.

Should that "right to choose" extend beyond pregnancy?

Should a woman be granted say 3 months after the birth to decide she doesnt want the child and be able to legally dump it and never look back?

No.

Then lets make it easier for you.
lets say the child is less then 14 days old.
Should a parent then be allowed to abandon that infant,and never look back?

Stop with the childish games, will ya. You are not anywhere near up to the job of subtlty.

What the hell are you asking?

Do you agree or not that a womans "right" to choose what happens to her baby extends to after the baby is born?
Should she be allowed to abandon that child before that child is 14 days old,even if it kills the child?

Its a simple question.

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