ABORTION.......

Yes I understand that YOU believe a foetus of any age is a child....what I don't accept is your refusal to understand that many other people do not share that belief, and that they may be right. See, you have your faith that makes you certain you are right. How can you see that you may be wrong? You can't. Bloody dangerous, that.

Do retarted people have a concept of what hands and feet are? Babies?

Again, what does understanding have to do with what it actually is?

Apples and oranges would be comparing humans to dogs.

Simply put so that even a child can understand: An embryo is alive. That means it is living, even as a 30 year old is living.

Eorl wrote:

Lash wrote:

It is not twisted to hate for a human child to be treated in a way that is illegal to treat a dog.

Again with the "human child" definition already decided there Lash ?

How can anyone argue with such an obvious statement?

Thing is, we are talking about an 8 week old foetus, not a human child.

Hi Eorl,

Let's talk medical facts for a moment instead of your opinion.

At 8 weeks, the unborn has a heartbeat, her DNA is distinct from her mother's marking her as an individual and not as part of the mother's body, and brainwaves (which have been measured as early as 6 weeks) can be in evidence as well.

Which one of these things would indicate to you that the unborn is NOT a living human being, Eorl?

real life wrote:

Eorl wrote:

Lash wrote:

It is not twisted to hate for a human child to be treated in a way that is illegal to treat a dog.

Again with the "human child" definition already decided there Lash ?

How can anyone argue with such an obvious statement?

Thing is, we are talking about an 8 week old foetus, not a human child.

Hi Eorl,

Let's talk medical facts for a moment instead of your opinion.

At 8 weeks, the unborn has a heartbeat, her DNA is distinct from her mother's marking her as an individual and not as part of the mother's body, and brainwaves (which have been measured as early as 6 weeks) can be in evidence as well.

Which one of these things would indicate to you that the unborn is NOT a living human being, Eorl?

No problem, let's drop my opinion from the equation.

Wiki says:

A fetus (also foetus) is an unborn vertebrate offspring after the embryonary stage.

In humans, a fetus develops from the end of the 8th week of pregnancy (when the major structures have formed), until birth. Fetus, in Latin, literally means 'young one'. When speaking in the most rational of terms, a fetus is an organism, as yet undeveloped, in the process of becoming a functional individual of a species.

The circulatory system of a human fetus works differently from that of born humans, mainly because the lungs are not in use: the fetus obtains oxygen and nutrients from the mother through the placenta and the umbilical cord.

In addition to differences in circulation, the developing fetus also employs a different type of oxygen transport molecule than adults (adults use adult hemoglobin). Fetal hemoglobin enhances the fetus' ability to draw oxygen from the placenta.

Momma, just because you felt that way does not not mean it is true.

Those are just the words you choose to describe how you felt.

I'm sorry Momma, this must be difficult for you to discuss so openly, and you have my respect for your honesty and candour.

"a fetus is an organism, as yet undeveloped, in the process of becoming a functional individual of a species."

If you are defining a "living human being" as a member of the species homo sapiens then clearly by the above definition a foetus does not conform.

It is not a human being...it is an organism in the process of becoming one.

What part of that is difficult for you to grasp?

Like I've been saying...this debate is all about words...and rhetoric...not the realistic situation.

Once we can drop the rhetoric perhaps then we can discuss the situation in a rational way.

"'But could we not ask little Hans up here?' said the Miller's youngest son. 'If poor Hans is in trouble I will give him half my porridge, and show him my white rabbits.'

"'What a silly boy you are'! cried the Miller; 'I really don't know what is the use of sending you to school. You seem not to learn anything. Why, if little Hans came up here, and saw our warm fire, and our good supper, and our great cask of red wine, he might get envious, and envy is a most terrible thing, and would spoil anybody's nature. I certainly will not allow Hans' nature to be spoiled. I am his best friend, and I will always watch over him, and see that he is not led into any temptations. Besides, if Hans came here, he might ask me to let him have some flour on credit, and that I could not do. Flour is one thing, and friendship is another, and they should not be confused. Why, the words are spelt differently, and mean quite different things. Everybody can see that.'

"'How well you talk'! said the Miller's Wife, pouring herself out a large glass of warm ale; 'really I feel quite drowsy. It is just like being in church.'

"'Lots of people act well,' answered the Miller; 'but very few people talk well, which shows that talking is much the more difficult thing of the two, and much the finer thing also'; and he looked sternly across the table at his little son, who felt so ashamed of himself that he hung his head down, and grew quite scarlet, and began to cry into his tea. However, he was so young that you must excuse him."

Indeed you make my point quite succinctly real life.

When you start talking about the rights of defenseless human beings...we will now consider ourselves warned that you could be talking about various things other than human beings.

Still none of you have explained how we should deal with the miscarriage rate of one in six before 12 weeks. Should the whole town attend a funeral every time and be as distressed as though it was a 6 year old accidently killed? No? Why is that do you think?

Realistic in your opinion, Eorl. When I was pregnant, it was NOT an organism I was pregnant with. I was pregnant with a child, a living child.

Quote:

Simply put so that even a child can understand: An embryo is alive. That means it is living, even as a 30 year old is living.

Yes, nice and simple. Now that you've stated your simple opinion, perhaps you can provide a decent argument as to why you hold that opinion.

Oh, that's right. This is generally the point where you start evangelizing and praying for my soul instead of showing signs of actual reason.

Still none of you have explained how we should deal with the miscarriage rate of one in six before 12 weeks. Should the whole town attend a funeral every time and be as distressed as though it was a 6 year old accidently killed? No? Why is that do you think?