Time to put up or shut up; Upd: Coverup Continues

I have heard of no new events of so-called torture.

I don't see why people get their feathers ruffled by McG.

yeah. one guy and those guilty have been punished.

The story of Dilawar's death - and that of another detainee, Habibullah, who died there six days earlier in December 2002 - emerge from a 2,000-page confidential file of the army's criminal investigation into the case, a copy of which has been obtained by the New York Times.

The Bagram file depicts young, poorly trained soldiers in repeated incidents of abuse. The harsh treatment, which has resulted in criminal charges against seven soldiers, went well beyond the two deaths.

In some instances, testimony shows, it was directed or carried out by interrogators to extract information. In others, it was punishment meted out by military police guards.

Sometimes, the torment seems to have been driven by little more than boredom or cruelty, or both.

In sworn statements to army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals. They tell of a shackled prisoner being forced to roll back and forth on the floor of a cell, kissing the boots of his two interrogators as he went. Yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy to soften him up for questioning.

[..] Once in Afghanistan, members of the 377th found the usual rules did not seem to apply. The peroneal strike - a potentially disabling blow to the side of the leg, just above the knee - quickly became a basic weapon of their arsenal. They said they were never told it was not part of army doctrine.

woiyo wrote:

I have heard of no new events of so-called torture.

Well, except for that guy, presumed innocent, they tortured to death in Afghanistan an' all...

McGentrix wrote:

yeah. one guy and those guilty have been punished.

Point proven.

One guy, huh, McG? Right. Not.

Quote:

The story of Dilawar's death - and that of another detainee, Habibullah, who died there six days earlier in December 2002 - emerge from a 2,000-page confidential file of the army's criminal investigation into the case, a copy of which has been obtained by the New York Times.

The Bagram file depicts young, poorly trained soldiers in repeated incidents of abuse. The harsh treatment, which has resulted in criminal charges against seven soldiers, went well beyond the two deaths.

In some instances, testimony shows, it was directed or carried out by interrogators to extract information. In others, it was punishment meted out by military police guards.

Sometimes, the torment seems to have been driven by little more than boredom or cruelty, or both.

In sworn statements to army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals. They tell of a shackled prisoner being forced to roll back and forth on the floor of a cell, kissing the boots of his two interrogators as he went. Yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy to soften him up for questioning.

[..] Once in Afghanistan, members of the 377th found the usual rules did not seem to apply. The peroneal strike - a potentially disabling blow to the side of the leg, just above the knee - quickly became a basic weapon of their arsenal. They said they were never told it was not part of army doctrine.

"Last week The New York Times ran an 8,000-word report detailing the torture and death of two Afghans in December 2002 at the hands of American soldiers in Afghanistan."

Again...nothing new here.

You brought up one guy, I answered one guy.

If you wish to discuss the issues then bring them up.

People obviously don't want to see how much this really hurts America. Renditions, torture, murder. And a government that's covering things up, pretending that it is for the protection of the citizens that they remain ignorant to what is actually going on.

Can you believe the Republicans these days?

When it comes to taking any sort of responsibility for the things we do, they run in circles with fingers in their ears screaming "SHUT UP! SHUT UP! NOTHING NEW HERE! NOTHING TO SEE, EVERYONE GO HOME!!!"

I mean, ridiculousness! Everything is partisan politics with these people. For the record if we'd been caught doing this sh*t during Clinton's era I would have been screaming for his head! But Bush can do no wrong, even if it means he approves torture and kidnappings and killings, as long as he keeps the Muslim at bay and Liberals down.

Republicans, your attitude onthis issue is disgusting and UnAmerican in the extreme. You should be ashamed of yourself, really.

Cycloptichorn

Does the Constitution only apply to innocent American civilians, or to innocent foreign civilians as well?

Republicans, your attitude onthis issue is disgusting and UnAmerican in the extreme. You should be ashamed of yourself, really.

Now you are exagerating. Most voting Americans will admit they do not support toture, and do not think the problem is as wide-spread as you seem to think it is.

That is all I'm concerned about. I am not concerned how foreigners view the way this nation is executing it soverign right to self defense. Just as it is not my concern how England executes it's rights.

McGentrix wrote:

You brought up one guy, I answered one guy.

I brought up one guy, you said there was just one guy. Not. To believe that you must be wilfully ignorant.

McGentrix wrote:

If you wish to discuss the issues then bring them up.

Just did. Now what about you?

Most voting Americans will admit they do not support toture, and do not think the problem is as wide-spread as you seem to think it is.

For Immediate Release:
July 25, 2005

Contacts:

Charles Sheehan-Miles, 202.558.4553 or [email protected]

Pentagon Defies Order to Release Photos;
2,000 Veterans Call for Independent Investigation

Washington - Veterans for Common Sense (VCS), a nonpartisan veterans' organization with 12,000 members, called for a commission to investigate torture allegations today, in response to the Pentagon refusal to release photos and videos from Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay.

In an open letter, signed by more than 2,000 veterans and supporters (including 5 flag-rank officers and more than 200 commissioned officers), the veterans urged Congress and the President to "commit -- immediately and publicly -- to support the creation of an independent commission to investigate and report on the detention and interrogation practices of U.S. military and intelligence agencies deployed in the war on terror."

Charles Sheehan-Miles, a 1991 Gulf War veteran and the group's executive director, said, "Once again the administration is fighting to prevent any possible public accountability for its policies, instead choosing to blame it all on the troops. To court-martial privates while high ranking officials get promoted is damaging to the very principle of command responsibility and undermines the U.S. military."

Veterans for Common Sense is co-plaintiff in a lawsuit filed by a coalition of human rights and civil liberties groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union and the Center for Constitutional Rights. The lawsuit has generated thousands of pages of documents in the last year documenting torture, abuse and in some cases murder in U.S. detention centers.

Individuals who have seen the photos and videos, including some members of Congress and journalist Seymour Hersh, have reported they include scenes far worse than anything released from Abu Ghraib thus far, including rape and the videotaped beating of a prisoner. The courts had ordered the Pentagon to release the photos by Friday, July 22, but the Pentagon filed a last minute brief attempting to block their release.

Sheehan-Miles said, "The Pentagon is doing everything it can to prevent the release of these graphic images, because they know that if the U.S. public were to see the true scope of the abuses, the demands for an independent investigation would be too strong to be ignored."

The full text of the letter and list of signers is available at www.veteransforcommonsense.org

I did not say one guy only, now did I?

yeah. one guy and those guilty have been punished.