The Half Blood Prince (WARNING: SPOILERS!)

1st up: do you think Snape is still on the right side, or on the wrong side?

Do you think Dumbledore was showing fallability by trusting Snape to the end, or is the all-knowing wizard? His shrivelled hand and claim that when he made mistakes, they were big ones set me up at first to believe that he was only human, and in error, at the end, but then I reread it and changed my mind... Maybe Dumbledore's supposed to be a character similar to Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia? Sacrificing himself and giving mercy? As he said somewhere in book 6, he takes the welfare of his students very seriously, and that would include even Draco... Perhaps, then, it means that JK Rowling is an even better writer than I first thought...

Do you think that Hogwarts will reopen in Book 7 and that Harry, Hermoine, and Ron will be students?- Or off searching for the Horcruxes? Will it be some sort of a quest over the summer for them, then off to school with a build-up to the final showdown, or will the school remain closed until the final showdown, then reopen- with some sort of glorified homecoming scene?

Opening of Book 7, will be the wedding (or will Harry go straight off to the Dursleys and confront them w/added detail about his own family history? and perhaps righting some of the wrongs he's received at their hands before leaving them once and for all...) I love a good wedding! I can't wait to read that bit of fiction!!!

Oh, and for those of you who were wondering about the initials "R.A.B." My guess is that they were penned by Sirius Black's brother, Regulus Black, who was in quite far w/Voldemort and wanted out, then killed, according to backstory mentioned in Book 5...

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Damn it, just spent 20 mins typing up a response and somehow lost it... well here goes again..

princesspupule wrote:

1st up: do you think Snape is still on the right side, or on the wrong side?

Do you think Dumbledore was showing fallability by trusting Snape to the end, or is the all-knowing wizard? His shrivelled hand and claim that when he made mistakes, they were big ones set me up at first to believe that he was only human, and in error, at the end, but then I reread it and changed my mind... Maybe Dumbledore's supposed to be a character similar to Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia? Sacrificing himself and giving mercy? As he said somewhere in book 6, he takes the welfare of his students very seriously, and that would include even Draco... Perhaps, then, it means that JK Rowling is an even better writer than I first thought...

I don't think so, because of this passage:

Quote:

"We've got a problem, Snape," said the Amycus, whose eyes and wand were fixed alike upon Dumbledore, "the boy doesn't seem able-"
But somebody else had spoken Snape's name, quite softly.
"Severus..."
The sound fightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading.Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy roughly out of the way. The three Death Eaters fell back without a word. Even the werewolf seemed cowed.
Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revlusion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face."Severus... please..."
Snape raised his wand....

I really don't see how you can read this any other way than that Dumbledore realized his mistake.

Possibly that Dumbledore was asking Snape to make it quick, but then why the hatred in Snape's face? I mean he's a good actor but you'd think he'd have given something away at some point... I dunno

I had something to say about the other stuff as well but I'll leave it here for now.

Ry

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yeah i spent a long time typing too and lost it. ugh...

i am not 100% sure that snape is bad. he made the unbreakable vow to draco's mother so he had no choice really to not kill dumbledore otherwise both he and draco were dead. draco dead because he couldn't kill dumbledore and snape because he broke the unbreakable vow. i find it hard to believe dumbledore would plead for his life, doesn't seem as magnificent as he was. maybe there is another explanation. maybe too, the potion was killing him and snape knew it so he took pity on the old man and killed him quickly as opposed to letting the potion eat him slowly. all dumbledore says is please (maybe it is please kill me).

so if RAB is sirius' brother then harry may already own the horcrux he stole considering he now owns the entire black estate.

i can't imagine they close the school. what's the point of writing about 7 years of wizarding school if there is no 7th year? just a thought.

i also dont think harry and ginny are over.

other thoughts:

harry will be the defense against the dark arts teacher once he kills voldemort (the legendary).

ron and hermoine will end up together if they could just get over themselves.

some weird twisted way, snape is going to help harry kill voldemort.

also i think another thing that irritates me are the religious groups banning and burning harry potter books. what is that all about? i mean i guess i see the reason behind it, but isnt it kind of extreme?

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dragon49 wrote:

yeah i spent a long time typing too and lost it. ugh...

i am not 100% sure that snape is bad. he made the unbreakable vow to draco's mother so he had no choice really to not kill dumbledore otherwise both he and draco were dead. draco dead because he couldn't kill dumbledore and snape because he broke the unbreakable vow. i find it hard to believe dumbledore would plead for his life, doesn't seem as magnificent as he was. maybe there is another explanation. maybe too, the potion was killing him and snape knew it so he took pity on the old man and killed him quickly as opposed to letting the potion eat him slowly. all dumbledore says is please (maybe it is please kill me).

Yeah I had thought of that too, but I have my doubts, and I'm still not totally convinced one way or another.

dragon49 wrote:

i can't imagine they close the school. what's the point of writing about 7 years of wizarding school if there is no 7th year? just a thought.

I had a suspicion that Rowling was planning on knocking Dumbldore off by the end of the book early on, but I couldn't believe it because of that.
The ending really shocked me. Honestly, between finding and destroying the Horcruxes, the ongoing fight with the Death Eaters and the OOP, the Harry & Ginny romance, the Ron & Hermione romance & finally meeting fighting and; most likely, defeating Voldemort. Rowling has enough plot left for at least another 2 books, probably 4.

My Other thoughts:

I also don't think that Harry & Ginny are over. Ginny isn't the kind of Girl to take that sort of thing lying down (so to speak).Furthermore; it should be interesting to see how the Lupin & Tonks relationship plays into this particular plotline. Whether Lupin agrees with Harry's current decision or whether; after what happened with Bill, he changes his mind, and tries to get Harry to change his as well.

I hadn't thought about the necklace already belonging to Harry through his inheritance, that's an interesting plot twist but the note does say that RAB was planning on destroying the Horcrux "as soon as I can." That would suggest that either He destroyed it, or he was caught by Death Eaters or Voldemort himself before he could destroy it. Either way it would seem that Harry wouldn't have it.

Lastly, I think that the Three love plotlines are going to have a large impact on the next storyline. Probably something along the lines of some of the main chars. (probably Harry, Lupin, and just a hunch that'll be Hermione, rather than Ron. Dunno why...) Will see these relationships as being easily exploitable by Voldemort and the Death Eaters (I wanna name a band that some day Laughing

) but in the end Dumbledore will be proven right that "No magic is more powerful than love."

Something along those lines anyway.

dragon49 wrote:

also i think another thing that irritates me are the religious groups banning and burning harry potter books. what is that all about? i mean i guess i see the reason behind it, but isnt it kind of extreme?

Hadn't heard that myself, very unfortunate.

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Here's what I want to know - I havent' read the book and I don't care if you spoil it for me (I found out that it was Sirius who died before I read The order of the Phoneix and it made no difference to my reading)

WHO DIED AND WHY???

waiting in suspense....

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pragmatic wrote:

Here's what I want to know - I havent' read the book and I don't care if you spoil it for me (I found out that it was Sirius who died before I read The order of the Phoneix and it made no difference to my reading)

WHO DIED AND WHY???

waiting in suspense....

Dumbledore was killed by Snape when it seemed that Draco Malfoy couldn't do it. Whether he did it because he really is a Death Eater or not is still up for debate... Confused

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dumbledore???

I'm going to go into mourning now...

Or maybe he will come back alive in the 7th book?

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pragmatic wrote:

dumbledore???

I'm going to go into mourning now...

Or maybe he will come back alive in the 7th book?

Nobody else has come back to life, so why would you think Dumbledore would be the exception to Rowling's rule?

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princesspupule wrote:

Nobody else has come back to life, so why would you think Dumbledore would be the exception to Rowling's rule?

You have a point there princess. But then again, dumbledore is such an exceptional person in the world of Harry Potter...

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coachryan wrote:

princesspupule wrote:
1st up: do you think Snape is still on the right side, or on the wrong side?

Do you think Dumbledore was showing fallability by trusting Snape to the end, or is the all-knowing wizard? His shrivelled hand and claim that when he made mistakes, they were big ones set me up at first to believe that he was only human, and in error, at the end, but then I reread it and changed my mind... Maybe Dumbledore's supposed to be a character similar to Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia? Sacrificing himself and giving mercy? As he said somewhere in book 6, he takes the welfare of his students very seriously, and that would include even Draco... Perhaps, then, it means that JK Rowling is an even better writer than I first thought...

I don't think so, because of this passage:

Quote:
"We've got a problem, Snape," said the Amycus, whose eyes and wand were fixed alike upon Dumbledore, "the boy doesn't seem able-"
But somebody else had spoken Snape's name, quite softly.
"Severus..."
The sound fightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading.Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy roughly out of the way. The three Death Eaters fell back without a word. Even the werewolf seemed cowed.
Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revlusion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face."Severus... please..."
Snape raised his wand....

I really don't see how you can read this any other way than that Dumbledore realized his mistake.

Possibly that Dumbledore was asking Snape to make it quick, but then why the hatred in Snape's face? I mean he's a good actor but you'd think he'd have given something away at some point... I dunno

I had something to say about the other stuff as well but I'll leave it here for now.

Ry

It all depends on whether Dumbledore is all-knowing or flawed and human. The story is set up so we readers could believe either plausible, and indeed, I did think Dumbledore had been duped and murdered by Snape at first, but then I reread the ending and changed my mind. Here's why: 1st, to Draco, he says, "It's my mercy, not yours, that matters now." Draco drops his wand a bit, then 4 Death Eaters come and see the situation at hand, then Snape shows up (able to get through the barricade b/c he has the mark on his arm.) The Death eaters are trying to make Draco kill Dumbledore, according to Voldemort's order. Earlier Dumbledore had told Harry that he takes the safety of his students very seriously. Can you imagine the harm to Draco if he were the killer? Better a man than a boy do the job, better a friend than a foe- if such a thing need be done. Dumbledore was pleading for Severus to do the deed. It may have even been prearranged... (if Snape told Dumbledore about the oath he took w/Narcissa- when it sounded like he was bluffing about knowing the secret what was going on, what had been ordered.) The look on Snape's face was b/c he didn't really want to do it.

If Snape had truly been on the dark side, wouldn't he have been inflicting injury on Harry rather than only parrying his curses as he escaped?

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dragon49 wrote:

i am not 100% sure that snape is bad. he made the unbreakable vow to draco's mother so he had no choice really to not kill dumbledore otherwise both he and draco were dead. draco dead because he couldn't kill dumbledore and snape because he broke the unbreakable vow. i find it hard to believe dumbledore would plead for his life, doesn't seem as magnificent as he was. maybe there is another explanation. maybe too, the potion was killing him and snape knew it so he took pity on the old man and killed him quickly as opposed to letting the potion eat him slowly. all dumbledore says is please (maybe it is please kill me).

so if RAB is sirius' brother then harry may already own the horcrux he stole considering he now owns the entire black estate.

i can't imagine they close the school. what's the point of writing about 7 years of wizarding school if there is no 7th year? just a thought.

i also dont think harry and ginny are over.

other thoughts:

harry will be the defense against the dark arts teacher once he kills voldemort (the legendary).

ron and hermoine will end up together if they could just get over themselves.

some weird twisted way, snape is going to help harry kill voldemort.

also i think another thing that irritates me are the religious groups banning and burning harry potter books. what is that all about? i mean i guess i see the reason behind it, but isnt it kind of extreme?

I agree. It was please (kill me.)

I think the locket was in the junk the kids cleaned out of Sirius' house that Kreacher stole and hid, and it will turn up there after a search.

I'm leaning toward thinking the school won't close, but will Harry, Ron, and Hermoine be back in the fall- or still off searching and questing for Voldemort? Perhpas they'll have found the horcruxes and will be back to learn as much as they can to fight the final fight, which would probably happen about at the end of spring term...

I think Harry and Ginny will kiss and be together after Voldemort's dead, and not before.

That would be nice to have him on as teacher at the end, the place he felt most at home... After all, there could always be another dark evil wizard who needs vanquishing; can't let the instruction in how to counter dark arts die out w/Voldemort...

I can't WAIT to see Hermoine and Ron get together! It's so long overdue! Probably by halfway through the final book.

Yes, I agree that Snape will help Harry kill Voldemort. And Voldemort won't see it coming at all.

Now about the religious right: some do see the books as promoting sorcery, which is forbidden by Bible text. The people who take text literally don't want their eyes turned toward anything remotely related to evil, as defined by the Bible... but they live w/their heads in the sand. Others see this story as a retelling of values and principles from the Bible in another form which is appealing to the masses today (many unsaved, many facing moral dilemmas will remember overcoming evil w/good from reading Harry Potter, not from scripture) and therefore a valuable learning tool.

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princesspupule wrote:

Here's why: 1st, to Draco, he says, "It's my mercy, not yours, that matters now." Draco drops his wand a bit, then 4 Death Eaters come and see the situation at hand, then Snape shows up (able to get through the barricade b/c he has the mark on his arm.) The Death eaters are trying to make Draco kill Dumbledore, according to Voldemort's order. Earlier Dumbledore had told Harry that he takes the safety of his students very seriously. Can you imagine the harm to Draco if he were the killer? Better a man than a boy do the job, better a friend than a foe- if such a thing need be done. Dumbledore was pleading for Severus to do the deed. It may have even been prearranged... (if Snape told Dumbledore about the oath he took w/Narcissa- when it sounded like he was bluffing about knowing the secret what was going on, what had been ordered.) The look on Snape's face was b/c he didn't really want to do it.

If Snape had truly been on the dark side, wouldn't he have been inflicting injury on Harry rather than only parrying his curses as he escaped?

I had forgotten about that part, still not entirely convinced though... granted I have a predisposition towards hating Snape (I get very attached to well developed characters Embarrassed

)

Snape also shouted at one of the other Death Eaters for using what I assume is the crucio spell on Harry saying: "Have you forgotten our orders? Potter belongs to the Dark Lord -- we are to leave him! Go! Go!"

I dunno the more i reread the last chapter though i think i may agree with you. Confused

Snape may end up helping defeat Voldemort somehow, but I think that somehow it will end up being Ginnys love that ultimately helps Harry overcome Voldemort. I just hope that neither Ginny or Harry have to die at the end. Crying or Very sad

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princesspupule wrote:

I'm leaning toward thinking the school won't close, but will Harry, Ron, and Hermoine be back in the fall- or still off searching and questing for Voldemort? Perhpas they'll have found the horcruxes and will be back to learn as much as they can to fight the final fight, which would probably happen about at the end of spring term...

Yes, I agree that Snape will help Harry kill Voldemort. And Voldemort won't see it coming at all.

i am thinking that the remaining order of the phoenix people will be searching for the horcruxes and insist that harry go back to school. i think in some odd way maybe snape will end up sacrificing himself for harry thus making it impossible for voldemort to kill him yet again, and weakening voldemort in some way that harry can kill him. I mean snape had an opportunity to grab harry at the end and take him to voldemort but didn't do it.

i just hope none of the main characters (ron, harry, hermoine, ginny) die. i don't think i could handle that.

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I agree with the idea that Snape is actually one of the good guys--aside from appearing to kill Dumbledore, he attacked none of good guys and essentially saved Harry. I'm also not so sure Dumbledore is really dead; when Harry thought he saw a phoenix-like shape rise from the tomb, was it really only his imagination? It might also be the case that Dumbledore has pulled an "Obi Wan Kenobi."

My predictions are:

1) Snape's hatred of Harry's dad (and Harry who looks just like him) and Dumbledore's absolute trust in Snape will be explained simultaneously--Snape was in love with Harry's mother. We know that Snape was the one who informed Voldemort of the prophecy, but why would Dumbledore had accepted his repentance based on whose deaths revealing that information caused? (Snape wouldn't have regretted James' death, and why would he regret the death of a 'mudblood' such as Lily?)

2) Draco will switch sides. His meanness is a reflection of his father and largely an attempt to please him. He'll always be an elitist a$$, but he's fast learning that following Voldemort isn't all it's cracked up to be.

3) Harry is one of the horcruxes. This would account for why he is able to speak Parseltongue and was telepathically linked to Voldemort. Unfortunately, I suspect this means Harry dies in the end.

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Mills75 wrote:

3) Harry is one of the horcruxes. This would account for why he is able to speak Parseltongue and was telepathically linked to Voldemort. Unfortunately, I suspect this means Harry dies in the end.

wow, interesting hypothesis... Shocked

there have been rumors that Harry will die in the end.

I wonder if another human being could be a horcrux? It seems within the context of the book that only inanimate objects could be horcuxes though.

Still very interesting indeed. Mr. Green

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coachryan wrote:

I wonder if another human being could be a horcrux? It seems within the context of the book that only inanimate objects could be horcuxes though.

Still very interesting indeed.

Thanks. I had heard the rumors, too, but had optimistically dismissed them until reading HBP; recall that Dumbledore was unsure as to whether or not another living thing could be a horcrux--he and Harry strongly suspected that Voldemort's pet snake was one of Voldemort's horcruxes.

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Finished it yesterday night, and still very depressed... Crying or Very sad

I had foreseen Dumbledore's death at the very beginning (I had heard the "rumour" about someone dying at the end, and remember having thought: It'll be Snape, Draco or Dumbledore).
Well... Here are my little theories:

1) I still haven't lost hope (though reduced by reading HPB) that Sirius will come back! (No! No! He can't be dead! I love him too much and nobody really knows what's on the other side of these f****** curtains! hem... sorry!

2) Snape is a "good guy", very probably in love with Lily (teenagers are weird, so the "mudlblood" thing is not that surprising). He could not do else than killing Dumbledore as he'd made the unbreakable vow. Plus, as it was said, he did not kill Harry at the end, and he kind of saved him from the other death eaters. He also gave him some sorts of "advices":
"Blocked again, and again, and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!"
And another line disturbs me a little, and makes me think that Snape can't be a bad guy:
'Kill me,then', panted harry [...] 'Kill me like you killed him, you coward-'
'DON'T' -screamed Snape, and his face was suddenly demented, inhuman, as though he was in as much pain as the yelping, howling dog stuck in the burning house behind them, -'CALL ME COWARD!'
Why would this pain be for? Just a bad memmory of James at school? Or that he had to prove his courage by killing Dumbledore, as he was asked to, and he still fells bad?

3) Ginny will wait for Harry to finish off Voldemort, and they'll live happily ever after Laughing

Or she'll kick Harry's ass and they'll stay together, Voldemort or not!

4) Ron and Hermione... *sigh* We are waiting for those two since the first book, and nothing happened... They were so close in the HBP! I think Hermione is already aware of her crush on Ron, since at least the Goblet of Fire, but Ron... Well... I suppose we just have to wait a little more...
My fear is that they'll be already together at the beginning of the 7th, and we miss the details... I think I won't forgive Rowling if she does this.

5) The love stories (Harry/Ginny; Lupin/Tonk; Ron/Hermione, but also Mr/Mrs Wealey; Bill/Fleur; Hagrid/Madame Maxime, and maybe Snape/Lily (although it's a hypothetical one-way love)) will be very important in the fight against Voldemort. Dumbledore can't have made a mistake on that!

6) I'd like them to search for the Horcruxes during summer, after Harry had explained his family's story to his uncle and aunt (I see her aunt crying, and regretting all she'd done... But it's highty improbable), and go back to Hogwarts (with McGonnagall as the headmistress) in order to be unified, and to learn as much as they can to fight voldemort.

7) I agree with the idea of an "Obi-Wan Kenobi" version of Dumbledore. Very Happy

That's all. Now I'm gonna read something more cheerfull, where nobody dies in the end...

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I think Harry is a Horcrux too! That's why Snape warns the death eaters away from killing Harry. "He belongs to the Dark Lord" (or something like that) Snape says and the death eaters don't even try to kill Harry.

I think the Dursley's know something, or have something, to do with this and that's why Dumbledore insists that Harry has to go back there.

I also think that Dumbledore and Snape had a pre-arranged agreement to prevent Malfoy from doing the killing. Kind of like when Dumbledore made Harry promise to keep giving him the poison.

I'm thinking that maybe Snape and Lilly Potter are brother and sister.

If Dumbledore comes back maybe it will be as Harry's Patronus?

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boomerang wrote:

I think Harry is a Horcrux too! That's why Snape warns the death eaters away from killing Harry. "He belongs to the Dark Lord" (or something like that) Snape says and the death eaters don't even try to kill Harry.

Yes, but Voldemort tried to kill Harry in the other books... Didn't he?

boomerang wrote:

If Dumbledore comes back maybe it will be as Harry's Patronus?

This would be interesting (altough I'd prefer him to "Obi-Wan Kenoby come back" Laughing

)

boomerang wrote:

I think the Dursley's know something, or have something, to do with this and that's why Dumbledore insists that Harry has to go back there.

Aunt Petunia definitely knows a lot about the magic world. More than she wants to know, obviously...

boomerang wrote:

I'm thinking that maybe Snape and Lilly Potter are brother and sister.

Wasn't she a "mudblood" ? A cousin, why not, but a direct sister would be difficult...

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The Half Blood Prince (WARNING: SPOILERS!)

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