0
   

Is freewill biblical or something we invented ?

 
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2021 10:13 pm
We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties. No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe. We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that G-d and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong. The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950's and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren't the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth. The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d's law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make G-d like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to G-d for he is G-d and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it's policy. There is A way government can follow G-d's politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from G-d's point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with G-d. When you find the truth and love in his way that G-d establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with G-d and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru G-d mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error. I will explain more but have did A lot.
 
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2021 02:02 am
@davidsheep88,
Logic says there is free will.

Man only recognises half of the 4 off possible logic outputs of the dual nature i.e. 0,1..1,0 logics even though 0,0...1,1 logics carry equal credence.He then goes on to state/believe that good is bad and bad is good when equally he could state/believe that good is not bad and bad is not good.The 2 off additional dual nature logic outputs i.e. 0,0...1,1 confirm this as ONE possibility but even they can change to IS NOT’s.

Nihilism (cancelling out) is still maintained if man accepts all 4 off possible logic outputs.

There are two branches of philosophy therefore:

1. 2 off logic output philosophy.

and

2.4 off logic output philosophy.


izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2021 04:54 am
A lot of people think the Bible is something we invented.
davidsheep88
 
  0  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2021 09:11 am
@izzythepush,
Bible was wrote by the roman empire and not the jewish nation, it indeed invented things but find the truth with the hebrew people. Because God did talk to his people and gave him A message.
davidsheep88
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2021 09:21 am
We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.

There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d's people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.

Romans 7:19 “For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”

Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”

Psalm 110:2 "Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew."



From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.

Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of. Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Elijah who many don't talk about but he change the words of G-d and sentence Jezabel but G-d only wanted to punish Jezabel but Elijah added her family as punishment. G-d was angry at Elijah but forgave him. Still G-d's plan was only Jezabel but he made an exception for Elijah and freewill existed and changed yes G-d allows it.

People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.

James 2:12 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."

2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d's people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.

Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.

Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

God's general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn't control everything
God's specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.

Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.

Proverbs 3:5-6"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2021 09:27 am
@davidsheep88,
Sounds like you take issue with Paul.
RABEL222
 
  5  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2021 10:39 am
@izzythepush,
The Bible both old and new testament were written by men. Having read a lot of modern history and the rewrites of modern history I doubt that the Bible is 100 % accurate or even 5 % accurate having been written by men.
0 Replies
 
davidsheep88
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2021 02:51 pm
@davidsheep88,
Paul has some errors but is right in works and faith he is A important foundation for the early church but I like john and Isaiah for one has so much love and another is wise and old. Still freedom is not free it has a price and jesus took that for and gave it back to us.
0 Replies
 
davidsheep88
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2021 04:26 pm
@davidsheep88,
Reformed dogma claims God unconditionally elects to salvation, that grace is irresistible, and therefore the Holy Spirit is irresistible.


This is easily seen to be false.


Jesus came only for Israel. Matthew 15:24.


They were God’s elect. Isaiah 45:4


Yet His own, that He came for, REJECTED Him. John 1:11:


Joh 1:11 He came unto HIS OWN, and his own received him NOT.


Jesus, who is God, yearned for His own elect people whom He came for, to come to Him - but they refused:


Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!


This is impossible in Calvinism - for the elect, who Jesus came for, to resist and reject salvation - yet they did just that.


Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.


Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should FIRST have been spoken to YOU: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


This happened because God gave us free will, and the Holy Spirit is resistible - there is no such thing as irresistible grace.


Stephen preached to the same elect Israelites (Isaiah 45:4) who Jesus came for (John 1:11) who He yearned would come to Him (Matthew 23:37) and told them WHY they killed the prophets God sent, and rejected and killed their own Messiah when He came for them: because they RESIST the Holy Spirit.


Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always RESIST THE HOLY GHOST : as your fathers did, so do ye.


Act 7:52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered (Jesus).


The Holy Spirit, without which no man can say Jesus is Lord, is resistible, because of free will.


Faith comes by hearing Gods word Romans 10:17, not by first being regenerated, and grace is resistible because the Holy Spirit is resistible.


Salvation is not guaranteed from having faith, man has freewill to receive Jesus John. 1:12, or resist the drawing by the HS and reject Jesus, as the elect Israelis did, when Jesus came for His OWN John 1:11.


There is NO irresistible grace or unconditional Election.


Israel, Gods elect, resisted the Holy Spirit and rejected Jesus, their savior.


As Jesus said to them:


Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Joh 5:40 And ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life.
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2021 12:18 pm
@davidsheep88,
davidsheep88 wrote:

Bible was wrote by the roman empire and not the jewish nation, it indeed invented things but find the truth with the hebrew people. Because God did talk to his people and gave him A message.


How soon some theists turn to outright lies.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2021 12:22 pm
@davidsheep88,
davidsheep88 wrote:


Salvation is not guaranteed from having faith, man has freewill to receive Jesus John. 1:12, or resist the drawing by the HS and reject Jesus, as the elect Israelis did, when Jesus came for His OWN John 1:11.


Try the quotes in this little presentation on grace and see how Yahweh denies us all the freedom to choose.

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
davidsheep88
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2021 09:37 pm
@Greatest I am,
No way was I lying to you, G-d gave the old testament and Jesus story and his ressurection but the revelations have been modified. It used to be Apocalypse then it change to revelations and the catholic church put non-canonical books such as tobit. The Roman empire and the Roman church change things but Jesus existed and The Israelites all the tribe of Judea and the 10 lost tribes of Israel are part of the history of G-d .

Simply the real stuff of G-d will come out and the things that are the real things in the vatican vault will reveal they have hold information from us and the Hebrew people still have the secrets and true stuff of the bible.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2021 12:12 am
@Jasper10,
Logic says one cannot ignore 0,0...1,1 logic philosophy which carries equal credence to 0,1...1,0 logic philosophy.This has been confirmed by neither reasonings being able to provide definitive PROOF which we know was a “red herring” anyway.

Therefore, if good is good and bad is bad as a possibility then there is a difference between the two.

We don’t need to know what that difference is ...just that there is a difference.

AWARENESS has been trapped in consciousness types.

AWARENESS and CONSCIOUSNESS types are different.

PRESENCE is different to AWARENESS.

PRESENCE is not influenced by consciousness types.

ALL SCIENCES ARE INTERCONNECTED.





davidsheep88
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2021 02:53 pm
@Jasper10,
With all the science we have created we haven't really reach the pinnaccle of science in all the universe there things that exist we do not see and it grows with or without you. Awareness is just something you percieved wit your eyes and senses to make logic in that if we had an alien races that not using it's eyes or senses but had psychic thing that could tell it's sorroundings and use it's psychic powers to see things not using it's senses.

It will revealed to use tht logic can exist thru other beings senses and still they percieve things G-d created and see things. They will judge but doesn't mean they have the truth. Senses don't give us truth from which to judge or decided what is right or wrong The real thing in this perspesctive is how it all was established with the law of G-d but it is not how we see things with our modern laws but the way love is fulfilment of the law. just to show another logic of love or motherly love can be true and make it true.

And choice is amde to be in love and saved by faith. Salvation is based on truth but still it's absed not on human conceved truth but God's truth.

Freewill is choice jasper but did you made the right choices in life.
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2021 12:17 am
@davidsheep88,
The problem with today’s science is that it is based upon 0,1...1,0 logic.

This is “hamsters wheel” logic or “prisoner of consciousness “ logic.

As science is in denial it is unable to get off the wheel or escape from consciousness types.

Science for example claims that Awareness and Consciousness types are the same.They are not....they are different.

Awareness needs to get off the wheel/escape from consciousness types.

The only way science can do that is if it accepts 0,0..0,1..1,0...1,1 logic.

There is a mysterious output from the 4 off logic pairs because if good is good and bad is bad then there is a difference between good and bad and this difference would be defined by some kind of ABSOLUTE law.

If there is an ABSOLUTE law then rules must exist.

As all sciences are interconnected then it makes sense that PRESENCE...AWARENESS....CONSCIOUSNESS TYPES are all embroiled together.

It would appear that all things are self regulating/governing......an AMAZING concept.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2021 02:45 pm
@davidsheep88,
davidsheep88 wrote:

We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad


You bible disagrees with you and I am her to refute you with it, should you wish to engage.

This following that was written as an O.P. gives many bible quotes we can discus.

=======
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2021 02:56 pm
@davidsheep88,
davidsheep88 wrote:

We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.



Why could Adam not find a fit person to reproduce with?

Was Eve an oversite? Did Yahweh go Oops.

To choose between good and evil, you have to know what is good and evil.

Adam had yet to eat of good or evil so how could he make an intelligent choice?

Jews call Eden where man gained Original Virtue. Christians on the other hand, get Original Sin.

As a Jew, why are you using the Christian version instead of your own?

Regards
DL
davidsheep88
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2021 02:37 pm
@Greatest I am,
The hebrew and christians are the people of G-d. furthermore to decide is not error but this is the most important part of freewill is you have the freedom to love remember G-d is not by force because true love is not by force but the connection between father and son or mother and daughter. So people have the right to choose and love that is perfect and love that is true is one that given without condition and love given with all your heart.
0 Replies
 
Dr Huff
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2021 02:46 pm
@davidsheep88,
"History [of free will]. Early in history it seems to have generally been assumed that everything about humans must ultimately be determined by unchangeable fate - which it was sometimes thought could be foretold by astrology or other forms of divination. Most Greek philosophers seem to have believed that their various mechanical or moral theories implied rigid determination of human actions. But especially with the advent of the Christian religion the notion that humans can at some level make free choices - particularly about whether to do good or not - emerged as a foundational idea. (The idea had also arisen in Persian and Hebrew religions and legal systems, and was supported by Roman lawyers such as Cicero.) How this could be consistent with God having infinite power was not clear, although around 420 AD Augustine suggested that while God might have infinite knowledge of the future we as humans could not - yielding what can be viewed as a very rough analog of my explanation for free will. In the 1500s some early Protestants made theological arguments against free will - and indeed issues of free will remain a feature of controversy between Christian denominations even today."
source

What's important to keep in mind is that the notion of free will is absolutely necessary to Christian theology. Without it sin and salvation are rendered meaningless concepts. If I don't deserve to be commended or blamed for what I do I may as well be a rock that, likewise, is not commended or blamed for where it sits. Only problem is that free will is simply an illusion, but that's a whole other issue.



Jasper10
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2021 03:01 pm
@Dr Huff,
What a load of nonsense.

LOGIC confirms that you cannot claim that free will is an illusion...you can HOPE it’s an illusion and put all your FAITH in your claim but you cannot provide definitive proof one way or the other that free will is an illusion.FACT.

You have listened far too much to Buddhism claims.The Buddha went no further than claiming that he was nothing more than consciousness.He therefore remained a “prisoner of consciousness”.

You need to tune into AWARENESS....AWARENESS sits above consciousness and has greater authority.
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Is freewill biblical or something we invented ?
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 10/27/2021 at 10:59:15