Is freewill biblical or something we invented ?

And exactly what LOGIC is that? Let's have your syllogism or other propositional form that confirms I cannot claim that free will is an illusion. I await.


Really!!! Awareness now has authority, even "greater authority." How quaint,..........meaningless,.......... and utterly irrelevant.

The 0,0...0,1...1,0...1,1 logic........where have you been? It’s been explained and is sound.

Utterly meaningless to a person who is trapped “a prisoner of consciousness”.

I agree.

AWARENESS and CONSCIOUSNESS are separate and different.

There are 2 off consciousness types.... you need to become AWARE of this...clearly you are not yet AWARE of this yet.....because you haven’t taken CONTROL of the mind.

Simply put...your whole philosophy is based upon 0,1...1,0 logic...i.e. good is bad and bad is good.

LOGIC says good is good and bad is bad as well....0,0...1,1.

As it cannot be definitively proven one way or the other whether god is bad or not then you have to accept 0,0..0,1..1,0..1,1 logic rather than just 0,1...1,0 logic.

Well you don’t have to accept anything if you don’t want to.You can remain in ignorance if you wish because you have the “free will” to do so.

Science is important bt it is incomplete, no matter what there is something more important.
1 Corinthias 13:2
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Science is nothing for the people who were people of faith challenge the system help create the science of today. Hebrew scientist even the catholic church many first clergy unfortunately were man of faith who allowed the advancement of science.

It’s interesting that you use the word FAITH.

We KNOW it can’t be definitively proven by carnal means whether good is bad or not.

Just because one can’t define what good and bad is doesn’t mean one can just ASSUME they are the same.One can HOPE they are same and put all ones FAITH in that HOPE ....or one can ASSUME they are not the same and put all ones FAITH in that HOPE.

As it is an unknown factor whether good is bad or not it makes sense that one’s philosophy in life should be based upon all the possible logic outputs of 0,0...1,0...0,1...0,0 rather than only 0,1...1,0 logic outputs.

LOGIC says so, not me.

Today’s biological data and output reasonings/logic is incomplete,I agree.If ones HOPE and FAITH are only in these things,at least key in the correct data for the outputs.

Rest assured,ones belief systems are still intact if one does.

Correction..last post statement should have read...

….....As it is an unknown factor whether good is bad or not it makes sense that one’s philosophy in life should be based upon all the possible logic outputs of 0,0...1,0...0,1...1,1 rather than only 0,1...1,0 logic outputs...…...

“I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him.”—Deuteronomy 30:15, 19, 20.

God delivered the Israelites from slavery in Egypt and put before them the prospect of a free and happy life in the Promised Land. But all that would not come upon them automatically. To gain those blessings, they had to “choose life.” How? ‘By loving God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him.’

Today, a similar choice is before us, and how we choose will determine what our future will be. By choosing to love God, to listen to his voice, and to stick to him, we will in effect be choosing life—life everlasting on a paradise earth.

He is the FIRST and the LAST
The BEGINNING and END
The ALPHA and OMEGA
The FATHER and SON.

The Omega who the alpha becomes, knows everything that you have done in his past according to your own 'Free Will'.

This is the point only God who is creator of good and evil of light and darkness is who moves it all, we were never meant to understand. What would of happen if he would of not put the tree of good and evil and would of never enter this world. We would of being like children still with our envelope of innocence and be in front ogf God protected by him ?


Yes, our purpose was not good or evil and by human fault we felled. If the tree was not their we would of fallen one will ask ? Nope, everything has plan and God never wanted man in this position what was the purpose of the tree afterwards ? if he would never eaten of it would of other animals eat of it and not man ? or later remove as time passed ? We will never know ? What was really the purpose just as A test of not to be eatena nd alter remove by God ?





But still we know God said that man was like him and the angels that knoweth good and evil ! And still we realize the devil had freewill before us and he fell ! But we know that in our error of Adam we can decide not like the devil but do good in the mistake and rely on God's effort and not our owns and put things in God's hands. Our destiny can change and move but some of you question we cannot escape him or his destiny he saved for us. The question do you want the destiny he did not prepare and leave us in possibility of A million to one what will happen and man just be thrown in space and let him decide ? What will be the outcome if you can plan everyhing since your born from A baby and turn into an adult that instance and God gave you all the power of the future and destiny you wanted ? you will know what you know and you will make A decision better ?




No, this why it is better that inside this world we live we can live in many possibilities and be saved by grace and baptized from sin into salvation and put love into salvation ! We would not of found our destiny if we could decide our destiny in that moment from baby to adult in space. He put us in Eden to be protected and choose not to eat the tree of good and evil and let use have choice ! If we didn't eat we will be perfect and without sin ! But we felled and he gave As econd chance in Jesus and glad that even those scientist believe if they ahd possiblity to ebf ree into choosing thier future our possiblities from predestination would make thier sum of equations and free from God soveriegn and have freewill ?





You have freewill protected and relying in God's effort and his soveriegn that you are not in space making decision but here in the world where in his care of law of moses and law of genesis. They would not of eating the fruti they will live in the probabilities in those rules and soveriegn of G-d's law and love. Be under his guidance and be saved. Knowing we can change those probablities and change our destiny from being A shoe salesman and into lawyer or governor of A state and reach our max and be what we want !


Moses chaneg those probabilities and also Huldah in her prophecy, G-d could reverse those action make us forget it and then done but he let those error stay and destiny was changed seeing he does not make it all effect in a sense of our errors do not ruin our future and in error the Eden will return and heaven on earth and we will be saved despite our errors in Jesus. God could of just erase us and no one will know of our exsitence and done but he lets us know and see those error have existed and predestiantion can change and destiny and sum of those variables and one million in one probablities can change and anything is possible. Let us do good and make knowing of good and evil in God's favor and find our purpose in life and pray to him.


See he made probablities and the sense some people say that one can make decision and really can't change thier future or predestiantion just fear and laziness that future can change and just like Moses and Huldah made mistake know we can make success into our favor and do good and chaneg our future with him and play ahrd abll i life and into all the promblems life does go thru and breakthru it all and not passive christian that rolls over and breaks the mold life give and make good in life and saves his family.


Kicks and screams and changes his future his predestiantion and not this that with God you can't change your future or predestiantion I see you can't change your future idea and you do not understand it still ! This why you do not understand how freewill works in God's favor and his plan of God. But still stuck with the laws of modern world and liberalism USA faces ! You have freedom to choose and better under God's wing and not in space where psycologist and scientist say they don't get to choose and if they choose they would make more errors and wouldn't recognize them !

It's logic, because thinking through the reasoning, you have a contradiction.

You assert that it is not possible to have free will.

In other words, you are choosing not to believe in it.

That's a theory, but it doesn't bear out.

Consider Jesus's own reported words, "A house divided against itself cannot stand." He then extends this to the ruling of Satan's kingdom.

If Rome creates a religion, and it directly contributes to its instability (the Romans actually killed Christians by offering them to lions), then we have such a divided house. It is not rational as an idea that Rome would manufacture something that would create its own downfall. Rather both Rome and Israel cooperated against Christianity.

Just to make A recap everyone from the first to remembering the last posts that were done but we have to see what hebrew say when using those words of "free" and choice and know the whole area is also tied to the slaves system Judean mosaic law applies people. Did you know their is A law that saw if A slave from another country comes to Israel he is free under the law of moses and musn't be return to his country to be slave ? He can be free forever

Understand our freedom did exist ! And existed in Heaven when Lucifer rebbeled, truly freewill exist in the spectrum of decision but the concept of the past, present, and future makes us think freewill doesn't exist because everything God's see's and foresaws decided everything for us. Nope people just like their are sciences explaining our existence their is other realms of existence of aliens, spirits and time that our thinking does not know and exist God created it becuase he is above it all but paths that exist and ways that exist in those ways explain that freedom exist probablility exist and Lucifer is one that's he was perfect in every sense we do knot know and yet he reblled and proves freewill myth is not myth and Ray I copy something from him. Still were just the tip of the iceberg in freewill and consciousness and existing explaining that what we percieve in our brains and eyes is not how freewil is exist by God and he gives us choice to do good and evil people don't understand it.


Because they want to control the base of it and with words grab their destiny and say like scientist they cannot really choose because their future was chosen for them and everything is planned ? Not true Moses and Hulda and Elijah changed the future of the world with thier decision can we who are in this choosing of good and evil also change the destiny of this world and do good and not the same mistakes as them ? Yes, we can can Jesus do it ? He did change our destiny all together.



No, people you just begginign to enter the tip of freewill as we speak we have the verses and in greek mean different things and in hebrew mean different things. But how in the universe rules are different and no we are bound becuase their Is more to God he is not showing we know him as the God of before, today and tomorrow are thier more time measurments in the universe ? Yes, Do angels, aliens, and other beings that exist have different counting than we do ? yes, understand God is beyond destiny and he gives us that to be measure by time like we know it now but there is more ways to count time from angel perspective, alien perspective, and above all from God's perpsective for he is has not limits and he has counting system different from us.


Freewill is it based from God's letting people to choose to love him or not ? He let us choose our destiny can change from that ? Dont' go too far people he onlys wants us to choose either to be freed by him from sin thru Jesus and be baptized simple as that and not to choose to do evil simple people. Does freedom exist outside of our science and counting time and counting destiny and God can make it happen ? Yes he can he can do it all for he is God and only God judges God ! We cannot go beyond that but he can craete it people Don't rely on your own efforts in yoru decison but pray and rely on his and he will unchange your destiny to youd dream of saving your family to be rich man in god's way and be the thing you want he put in your heart to free in freewill in his love he gaves us life to choose and enjoy this magnifecent thing called life and live it with all your might and feelings.


Choose God above it all and put him first he will change your ways and find your dream come reality and really be all the things you can be !

Ellis Bell said :

Maybe this will help (I believe the man, L. Ray Smith, who authored this website is deceased)

The Myth of Free-Will Exposed
"Free will does not actually and literally mean that one can make choices, create, change his mind, or reformulate ideas and data, etc., but that those choices and thought processes must themselves be free thoughts and free choices. "Free will" is only true if our choices are also free. But free from what? Why, free from being forced upon us against our will, or free from being caused by anyone or anything except our OWN will. And so, yes, man can think, process data, make choices, change his choices, etc. But none of these activities are free from internal or external CAUSES.
<snip>
Up until the very last day with their Lord, the apostles all believed that they possessed the power of free will, which could enable them to choose their own destiny, and that they could and would have the strength of self determinism and free will to maintain that course. But Jesus told His disciples that they would all forsake Him. In other words, Jesus was foretelling of events that would cause (even "force,' if you will) them to change their wills, against their previously stated wills. They of course, all denied that Jesus knew what He was talking about."
I've had people in my life that would not do me any favors, change their minds and help me with situations. It's really odd to watch, cause it's like, what just happened?

Let us remember to use our own freewil you know and not use the model lucifer did in his rebbelion we are not the same we will not be judge the same we have repentance and freedom to choose they failed and coveted the powere God posses we must not look for that but be humble in acccept his will and we will do what God intended us before the fall of man and love God with all our heart and love thy neghbor and complete the purpose we were made in Eden and fulfill it today by making earth like heaven by singing and loving and praying being A witness of him and being like Jesus. And when the lord judges the devil in end times he will say you were faithful and did not participate in the world but seperated in spiritual way and keep helping in the world but thinking of Jesus all the time.

Know their will A be time G-d will give justice to what the devil did to this world and all those who worship the world will put things in G-d's hand and not use thier own efforts but in his. Love like Jesus and be the second Adam. It is not easy but little by you become it and all efforts matter up the hill. We must deny ourselve and put him first and doing so we do his will and our choice in him. Secrets are in praying, singing and loving he reveals to us later.

Not having free will would have eliminated the need for a Messiah.

The Father could have created moral little robots, but he didn't.

Yes, our purpose was not good or evil and by human fault we felled. If the tree was not their we would of fallen one will ask ? Nope, everything has plan and God never wanted man in this position what was the purpose of the tree afterwards ? if he would never eaten of it would of other animals eat of it and not man ? or later remove as time passed ? We will never know ? What was really the purpose just as A test of not to be eaten and later remove by God ?

But still we know God said that man was like him and the angels that knoweth good and evil ! And still we realize the devil had freewill before us and he fell ! But we know that in our error of Adam we can decide not like the devil but do good in the mistake and rely on God's effort and not our owns and put things in God's hands. Our destiny can change and move but some of you question we cannot escape him or his destiny he saved for us.

The question do you want the destiny he did not prepare and leave us in possibility of A million to one what will happen and man just be thrown in space and let him decide ? What will be the outcome if you can plan everyhing since your born from A baby and turn into an adult that instance and God gave you all the power of the future and destiny you wanted ? you will know what you know and you will make A decision better ?

You cannot be saved on your own efforts only in G-d's effort and how do you obtian them ?

Just like Jesus did. The bible says God came as the son and came without power and did so for A reason. And he came without power. Why did God came as Jesus with no power but one to pray to God. God came as man naked and could die like any other man ! He did not bring A host of angels with him. He show the whole world how he wanted man before the fall of man, praying. Jesus prayed and prayed he prayed in the morning , in the evning, and in the night.

And what he said is

Matthew 6:10
10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Jesus is the second Adam he is what Adam was suppsoed to be and Jesus was not giant like adam, he had no superpowers like Superman or Samson, he had no army to prove what God wanted from man to talk to him and pray and do the 2 commands " Love thy father and they neighbor " That si all to be like Jesus simple.

Do that ! He didn't came with A huge host of angels and ended the world he let them repent and have A choice to love him and be saved by him. You put things in God's hands and when A storm comes you don't let go of his hands and show you were faithful to him.

People our will has been always united to him before our birth when we are born we thik we have indpeendence from him or we started in this existence born a citizen in A counrty and we are not coneccted to him ?


We are and have always been here the error we think we are seperated from him by independance or by vote or by going to the ballot. Know we are in A greater thing and that is love. Know in how in A realm or in kingdom of love know we were never meant to be born inpendant from him. We were meant in to be with

him always perhaps our idealogy of freedom and politics cannot be used in this relationship. Here two promblems that come and clash that our existence is us knowing we exist and conscience gives us the ability to know who we are and what is life and it's purpose but the other clash is we are born/created from God and did not want us to kow good and evil but wanted to live in the garden and knowing becomes sin and we are spearate from him and know freedom is sin ?

No, we have freedom in the garden and God let Adam obey and disobey bu letting A tree there and let him had choice to not of eat of it or did eat of it. He had perfect will Adam to obey God and keep choosing freely and walking freely without asking God where to in the garden yes he did can we ahve the realtionship Adam had with God like Jesus had with God ? Yes.
The first is that we are born into existence know we are being we are born picture this if Human created and A.I. and it could live and feel like us but still would it ask space and says he diecide evrything by itself qwhat you would you ? let it decide already and it's virgin mind be crisp clean and letting ti go it's own way like the wiond and ggoes perfectly align in the universe by itself ? Some would argu it should be free because it would fit life perfectly going it's natural way and not our humans and animal way to destroy and contorl everhything like our civilization has done since greeks and since romans to do. Rememeber we were never meant to be like this with A civilization and army, No.

He sill wanted us to obey hima nd be in the Garden to be in paradise forever bu came the enemy ( the devil) and our paraidzse ruin.
No, God-relation with man isn't like an A.I. been created or A mamal been born to be like deer or leopard and go thweir natural way and live life in the circle of life. Our realtion was never for the animals and us to be in paradise and no animal kill each other. We were created to live and be seravnts of the most high our purpose was another. He made us to choose and gave us freewil since the beggingin to live but those who know what destiny is and what future,past, and present know you live you born and die say you don't have freewil your life is planned already liek animals and you live in the box. You can't get out, Her scientist and rational humainze come to conlfict with both clashes and realize that choosing is not real !
No, people you can choose and your decison change everything but you do not have the inteliggence to be hummble and to wise know, our paths are can change and predetermination and God's soveriegn and ot his soveriegn do exist and have their been in destiny what he wrote changed ? yes God writes everything we do and writes what your going to do. But god allows probabilities billions to one that things can change and destiny can change people. We have Elijah, Huldah, and Moses who change the future of Israel and show probabilities do exist and do happen.


Know there is born to existence and consciuonsess in this world that we are born and theologist , writtters , and greek thinkers, german thinkers like Nietzche, socrates, aristotles, and Einstein say to leave that of A born baby consciouness is original and shows only good and A way that existence is based on human efforts not true our exsitence is not base on our efforts. And originality is given by our consciousness and perception but know they are wrong. This is why an error remember in this discussion man cannot know evil if not for good and evil tree it is important that we realize if an A.I. created will not undertand what God established things. So know ther eis A difference.


1.human created A.I. and it has freedom and born crisp clean
2. God-man realationship we have freedom in the garden and God let Adam obey and disobey bu letting A tree there and let him had choice to not of eat of it or did eat of it. He had perfect will Adam to obey God and keep choosing freely and walking freely without asking God where to in the garden yes he did. Know this the importance of freedom we must have the realtion Jesus ahd with God and align our will with his and originaly liek he wanted and know you have freedom to do only good and it is how perfect freedom is with him and know it is better than any doubt modern thinkers like einstien, max plank aristoltes and socrates would argue about destinypredetermiantion, future , past and present. Be in God' path by putting yor will to his and avoid this conflicts.

The base of freewill is what G-d wanted man with freewill before the fall man had man freewill ? and it was perfect ? Yes, Becuase it was align with him before all this of politics, sin, and works and faith of slavation were not part of this he wanted us to be with him in the garden and do one thing . Trust in him put our faith can we keep having our faith and keep the relation with Adam like G-d intended even though we are fallen and cannot be pure like he was, Inoccent ? Jesus is that second Adam he had A relationship and did what Adam was supposed to be A son, A servant and love like G-d loves the world. We are not perfect but we do 10% of the work, 50% of the work and 90 of the work % of faith and he does the rest in mysterious ways. Remember we are imperfect of the fall.