Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

@Glennn,

Well, no. Can we say that a pro-Palestinian sentiment becomes anti-Semitic as knee jerk reaction to stiffle honest debate? Well, yes. Is that specific tactic promoted by the Government? Emphatically no. Did President Biden make a terrible pro Isreali statement? Yes, he did. One out of literally hundreds of other pro Palestinian comments and State policy of pro Palestinian, anti Hamas stance.

Where's the conspiracy? Who exactly is in it?

Here's some fact that might put a conspiracy in the trash can:

https://www.state.gov › countries-areas › palestinian-territories
Palestinian Territories - United States Department of State
Dec 26, 2023U.S.-Palestinian Relations U.S. Assistance to the Palestinians Bilateral Economic Relations U.S.-Palestinian Relations The United States is strongly committed to the development of a secure, free, democratic, and stable Palestinian society and governance.

https://www.state.gov › rejection-of-irresponsible-statements-on-resettlement-of-palestinians-outside-of-gaza
Rejection of Irresponsible Statements on Resettlement of Palestinians ...
1 day agoThe United States rejects recent statements from Israeli Ministers Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben Gvir advocating for the resettlement of Palestinians outside of Gaza. This rhetoric is inflammatory and irresponsible. We have been told repeatedly and consistently by the Government of Israel, including by the Prime Minister, that such statements do not reflect the policy […]

https://palestinianaffairs.state.gov
Homepage - U.S. Office of Palestinian Affairs
U.S. Office of Palestinian Affairs Address: 18 Agron Road Jerusalem, Israel 9419003 Phone: +972-2-622-7230 Email:

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What's difficult is trying to discuss these war crimes with someone who is not even willing to call Israel's actions the crime against humanity that it most definitely is.

What's difficult is trying to discuss these war crimes with someone who's not interested in conversing with you about a particular topic. Discussing "war crimes" is just a variation of "thoughts and prayers" when no one in the discussion can do anything to change the situation.

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In fact, I recall the times when you refused to call them war crimes or crimes against humanity.

I've refused to say that they aren't war crimes as well.

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You do believe that Israel is committing crimes against humanity--in this case the Palestinian people--at this moment, right?

You're entitled to your opinion. It's surprising that you seek other people's agreement for validation. Are you unsure of your position?

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@hightor,

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I've refused to say that they aren't war crimes as well.

Sounds like lawyer-speak for "no comment." And we all know what that means . . .

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when no one in the discussion can do anything to change the situation.

That's the spirit! Let's just forget about it, since nothing can be done about Israel's war crimes and the biden administration's material support for those war crimes.

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You're entitled to your opinion. It's surprising that you seek other people's agreement for validation. Are you unsure of your position?

Me? No. You're the one who appears to be unsure of their position. You're the only one in this discussion who is unsure of their position. And we have your continued refusal to answer the question of whether or not Israel is committing crimes against humanity to prove it.

. . . That is, unless you're about ready to call this war crime a war crime. If not, then state your rationale for refusing to call it what it is. There must be something behind your refusal to call a war crime a war crime.

So, do you believe Israel is committing war crimes against the Palestinian people as we speak?

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@glitterbag,

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I can deal with Kathleen because I don't think she's a maniac

That's true. I have her in quite a different category from Hewitt and Thiessen in that, though a conservative, she's not a movement propagandist.

But she is a part of the DC/New York high-society media elite, many of whom do no actual reporting (or investigative work or original thinking) but instead rely on their insider-celebrity status to "justify" their profile and jobs. And the content of what they write or might say during interviews is highly unlikely to rock any boats.

This set of folks (most of them) are not evil of intention nor stupid nor purposefully deceitful, etc. They're just very comfortably ensconced in a privileged world, the maintenance of which requires a rather stultifying level of consensus about what can or cannot be voiced about the realities of power in US politics. And their social lives are often tightly intertwined.

I'll give an example of what I'm describing. The lady I mentioned earlier (married to the CFO at the Post) was part of this world. She and her husband were close and longtime friends with Charles Krauthammer and his wife along with Chris Matthews and his wife along with Jim Lehrer and his wife all of whom frequently partied or had dinners together. Now, I really value Jim Lehrer. He has always and uniformly been a very valuable figure in political news and I loved the guy even more after this lady confided that "Jim swears like a sailor".

All of that is Parker's world. And I don't have animosity towards her. She simply has far, far less to offer WP's readers regarding the current political mess than does Greg Sargent.

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@hightor,

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hcr

Whenever I read Richardson or lister to her speak, I am something close to hypnotized by the quality of her thinking. There are few people who I admire as much as I do her.

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@Glennn,

It is chilling to observe that people won’t give a straight answer to that question.

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@bobsal u1553115,

When Craven de Kere of Raven’s Realm told me about the Tuskegee Experiment, I was certain it was some conspiracy theory.

If you have seen actual documents explaining Operation Northwoods etc., you must admit there are many horrifying facts about the people running this country that fearful people consign to conspiracy because they can’t handle such an ugly reality.

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@Lash,

Must be an issue with loyalties. What else could explain a blindness to a whole people being murdered, starved, and diseased but an exceptional loyalty to the war criminals . . . or an exceptional hatred of the victims. It's one or the other, and neither smell like anything good at all!

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@hightor,

There are specific criteria denotating the labels war crime & genocide.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen you this avoidant.

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@Lash,

That's because you took a break.

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@Bogulum,

It could have been arranged by outside/inside influence, I just don't know. I'm not taking a hard position until more facts are revealed. If I was still working I would have mentioned the possibility of a murder, but all I have now is the story of suicide. Don't misunderstand my intent, I have no sympathy for Epstein.....but for the 'right now thoughts', I suspect at least 2 possibilities with the additional possibility of a third or forth. What really pisses me off is that the absolute truth probably won't be released for 50 years and I won't be alive to read it.

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@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

I just don't know.

Neither do I. Herman Goering was able to get his hands on cyanide despite being held in high security, so it does happen.

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@Lash,

Tuskegee was no third party conspiracy. It was a state sponsored medical experiment. It was a murderous ethical lapse. Like prefrontal lobotomies.

This was state policy based on "ends justifies the means" or "breaking eggs to make an omelet" or like Elon Musk puts it with his self driving quest, "a few deaths will save many lives in the future (a reasonable thing for a war, but Musk's bottom line just does not qualify).

Bad state policy, but not conspiratorial until the state realizes it fucked up and exposed itself to civil consequences, like with Tuskegee or the CIA's uninformed doping of random people with LSD, and conspires with itself to hide their shameful ****. But it all comes out. What looks like a conspiracy is an incomplete view of the events or a need to ignore the relevant facts for something else out of whole cloth - a "conspiracy".

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And we all know what that means . . .

Do you really think you're conducting a trial?

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It is chilling to observe that people won’t give a straight answer to that question.

It depends on who's asking the question. And why.

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Must be an issue with loyalties.

Or it might very well be something else.

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen you this avoidant.

You missed u/glennn's threads on the PCR threshold! My suggestion is to ignore my comments. I'm only interested in identifying biases, checking facts, and exposing weaknesses in your position.

For the past three months neither of you has had anything more to offer than thoughts and prayers for one side and condemnations and curses directed toward the other. When I asked specific questions as to what could be done I was either expected to perform a particular part in a rhetorical kabuki dance or given a simplistic response like "stop providing weapons" as if any of us had control over international arm sales. Remember how long the US was in Iraq? Afghanistan? Even though many of us were opposed to those wars and said so repeatedly? If the US reappraises its support for Israel (which it should have done years ago) it won't be because of anything we say here. It might occur under a different administration or it might happen because of mounting international pressure or maybe because of other unforeseen developments. But in any case, it won't be because I'm not interested in having this conversation with you. Whether we agree or disagree is of no practical consequence, whatsoever. Here, let's put it to the test: Biden! Stop providing weapons to the IDF. Bibi! Withdraw your troops. Hamas! Release the hostages. Okay, the clock's ticking.

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@Glennn,

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So, do you believe Israel is committing war crimes against the Palestinian people as we speak?

He's pretty clear to me: He's not happy with what's going on, he's not happy with either side. He needs more unbiased information. He agrees with you: there is no clear reporting of exactly what's happening, except it's murderous and needs stopping. He, like me do not tout it as "conspiracy", but a rush to judgement.

Where he and I diverge is that I believe the IDF is clearly committing human rights violations. He wants the fog to clear first.

The fact is as the state government of Gaza, Hamas has a lot to answer for, too. I do not think that it acted in Palestinian interests and in a lot of way it intentionally set IDF loose on Gaza.

Some might say that Netanyahu authored this when he he degraded PLO, the Palestinian Authority and Yasser Arafat. He made deals with Hamas to come in, he and Hamas have made considerations for each other in the intervening years. No conspiracy, State policies.

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@hightor,

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Do you really think you're conducting a trial?

Oh I imagine it does seem like a trial to you since you interpret any questions regarding your position on Israel's war crimes against the Palestinians as out of line. But no, they're not out of line. If you'd stop taking the 5th after being asked a simple question, perhaps you wouldn't feel like you're on trial.

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Or it might very well be something else.

No, you're being answer hesitant when it comes to just one question. You must not like what you know the answer to be.

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I'm only interested in identifying biases, checking facts, and exposing weaknesses in your position.

But in this specific case, you're only interested in protecting your own weak position. You refuse to call a war crime a war crime. And you appear to be excusing biden for participating in these war crimes. Is it that you're pro biden and would rather not think about the war crime he supports?

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@hightor,

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Here, let's put it to the test: Biden! Stop providing weapons to the IDF. Bibi! Withdraw your troops. Hamas! Release the hostages. Okay, the clock's ticking.

I once wrote a sentence on social media that was so beautiful, so powerful, that two continents collapsed and sank beneath the ocean waves.

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I can't run no more
With that lawless crowd
While the killers in high places
Say their prayers out loud
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
A thundercloud
They're going to hear from me

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@Glennn,

Why are you continuing to waste your time on your fruitless quest?

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...you interpret any questions regarding your position on Israel's war crimes against the Palestinians as out of line.

I never thought they were out of line. I said that I'm not interested in discussing the topic with you.

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No, you're being answer hesitant when it comes to just one question.

I'm not being "answer hesitant". I just don't care to discuss the issue with you.

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But in this specific case, you're only interested in protecting your own weak position.

And what position is that? That I choose not to discuss a topic with you?

I don't care what you think my position is. Really, why continue to question me fruitlessly when you could be spending this time directing your thoughts and prayers to the Gazans?

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@bobsal u1553115,

JFC. It was conspiratorial the moment they conspired to do it.

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@hightor,

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I never thought they were out of line. I said that I'm not interested in discussing the topic with you.

When posters ask you whether or not you consider Israel's brutal assault on the Palestinian people a war crime, you dance up a storm. You accuse them of indulging in pointless, hopeless condemnation of the war criminals, claiming that nothing will change "because of anything we say here."

Sure. Let's all assume a posture of helplessness, and then trash anyone who puts a mirror up in front of us. If you don't like what it all points to, make a case in that direction. Or, if as you say, you're not interested in discussing the topic with me, then don't read my posts since you seem to have a problem with restraint after reading one.

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I'm not being "answer hesitant". I just don't care to discuss the issue with you.

Uh huh. What if someone else here asks you whether or not you consider Israel's brutal assault on all Gazans a crime against humanity. Will you have a candid answer for them? Or will your answer be that nothing will change "because of anything we say here"? Of course, that's not an answer; it's a distraction.

Is Israel engaging in crimes against humanity?

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