12
   

Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 11:34 am
@hightor,
Quote:
An official investigation and subsequent judgment precede a declaration of guilt or innocence.

But of course. Gotta cross all the Tease and dot all the eyes before putting a stop to what Human Rights groups are calling starvation and death. Bureaucracy must be served . . . first.

Now let's get serious. Insisting that bureaucracy be served even as hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are at risk of starvation and disease as we speak is being used as a tool for the continuation of the killing and starving.

That's my opinion.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 11:43 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Bureaucracy must be served . . . first.
You are confusing bureaucracy with jurisdiction.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 11:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
There's no excuse for looking the other way.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 11:58 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
Insisting that bureaucracy be served even as hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are at risk of starvation and disease as we speak, it would appear that, in this case, bureaucracy is being used as a tool for the continuation of the killing and starving.


(I didn't write the rules.)

Condemnation of war crimes, no matter how loud or widespread, no matter how direct our gaze, without the findings of some international tribunal – and subsequent legal action – does nothing to stop wartime atrocities or relieve the suffering of the victims. It's the equivalent of the "thoughts and prayers" response to disasters.

And even if Biden and Netanyahu are put on trial, it doesn't undo the damage done. The threat of justice meted out by some international body doesn't appear to scare those who violate the laws of warfare. There may have been some celebration when Slobby Milosocvich took cyanide at his trial but it didn't right any of the wrongs that occurred in the siege of Sarajevo.



Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 12:06 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
And even if Biden and Netanyahu are put on trial ...
Neither the USA nor Israel Israel are among the states that have signed the Rome Statute, they disputes the ICC’s competence.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 12:13 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes, that's why I didn't mention the ICC – those concerned would have to form some new body. And compel the suspects to appear there!
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 12:16 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
...when Slobby Milosocvich took cyanide...

He died in his cell of a heart attack. I confused him with Bosnian Croat war criminal Slobby Praljak. My apologies.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 01:03 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
And even if Biden and Netanyahu are put on trial, it doesn't undo the damage done.

That's right. The only thing that can be done right now to put a stop to Israel's crimes against humanity is to call them what they are and to stop actively working to prolong the death and starvation. What you don't do is to belligerently keep supplying the one's committing the war crimes with the means to do so! But that's just what the biden administration is doing right now.

No investigation needs to be done. The Israelis are actually and literally displacing and starving the population of Gaza. Do you think that an official investigation will uncover something that will make all that not a war crime or a crime against humanity? Waiting for findings after the completion of war crimes is a stalling tactic in this instance.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 02:17 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
The only thing that can be done right now to put a stop to Israel's crimes against humanity is to call them what they are and to stop actively working to prolong the death and starvation.

But you haven't explained how you are going to accomplish this. Do you really think they'll listen to you calling them out on their actions? They ignore the UN General Assembly but they'll listen to you. Okay.

Thoreau refused to pay war taxes and went to jail. Gandhi and Martin Luther King put their lives on the line. You harangue faceless people on a message board, many only identified by made-up names, and have yet to supply one practical solution. I'm not sure what your angle is. I'm not sure that you have one other than "Biden bad/Netanyahu evil".

Quote:
Waiting for findings after the completion of war crimes is a stalling tactic in this instance.

I'm unaware that any investigations have even been started so you needn't wait for them to be completed. Get the jump on them. Go ahead and make your move.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 02:33 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
I'm unaware that any investigations have even been started so you needn't wait for them to be completed. Get the jump on them. Go ahead and make your move.
The ICC ruled in 2021 that its criminal jurisdiction extended to the Palestinian territories of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and opened a formal investigation into the endemic violence in the region since 2014.

Questions and Answers on the Decision on the International Criminal Court’s territorial jurisdiction in the Situation in Palestine (15 February 2021)

Statement of ICC Prosecutor Karim A. A. Khan KC from Cairo on the situation in the State of Palestine and Israel (30 October 2023)

European leaders and officials have spoken much less about the role of the ICC in the Gaza war than in the case of Ukraine .
Another barrier to the investigation is resistance from the EU’s allies, the United Kingdom and the United States. (As said, the US is not a state party to the ICC; the UK, despite being a member of the court, has opposed the ICC’s claim of jurisdiction over Palestine since 2021.)
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 02:47 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Thank you, Walter.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 04:56 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
But you haven't explained how you are going to accomplish this.

It's enough to first identify the problem concerning these crimes against humanity. You'd be surprised at the number of people who will not specify the exact problem; in this case, the biden's administration's support of Israel's war crimes perpetrated against the Palestinians. When talking about that specific key problem, some people will attempt to quell it by demanding a solution to the problem, as if my lack of a solution somehow justifies continuation of their war crimes without interruption.

Come to think of it, I should make sure we're on the same page here. Do you view Israel's activities of the moment, and the biden administration's unconditional support for it to be a crime against humanity? Or would you rather not say?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2023 06:58 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
What about Germany, what about you?

Do you dispute the International Court's competence?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2023 12:53 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

What about Germany,
Same as the EU (see above)
izzythepush wrote:
what about you?

Do you dispute the International Court's competence?
No.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2023 01:28 am
Analysis
Why US double standards on Israel and Russia play into a dangerous game
Quote:
The west’s equivocation on Gaza exposes a global order facing mutiny over its domination of the international discourse
... ... ...

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2023 05:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I was just about to post that, you beat me to it.

I doubt it will have much of an impact.
PoshSpice
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2023 06:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I wonder if the world will try them in absentia.

An excerpt:

Matthew Duss, a former foreign policy adviser to the senator Bernie Sanders, said: “If we simply say that those rules can be ignored by countries we like, or countries we have a special relationship with, we’re not really creating a rule-based order at all. We’re creating an order of might makes right.”

So what comes next?

Putin feels he already knows. He recently told a group of new diplomats: “The world is undergoing cardinal transformation. The underlying change is that the former unipolar world system is being replaced by a new, more just, multipolar world order. I believe this has already become obvious to everyone. Naturally, such a fundamental process will not be smooth, but it is objective, and – as I want to emphasise – irreversible.”

By trying to dominate the diplomacy around Israel, and exclude other countries, Biden showed he did not understand the world being forged, he argued. Putin hopes all he has to do is encourage some sanctions busting, and wait for 5 November 2024 – US election day – when Donald Trump could be re-elected. Trump’s pledge to “end the war in 24 hours” is widely seen as requiring a significant loss of Ukrainian territory to Russia.


To prove Putin wrong, and to protect himself, Biden occasionally seems to realise he needs the Gaza war to end and this requires ending his self-defeating unconditional support for Netanyahu. The Arab states, however much they dislike Hamas and political Islam, want the conflict over, and so does much of Ukrainian civil society for which Gaza has been a triple tragedy – it diverted world attention, it discredited the concept of rules-based order, and it divided the west, weakening Biden and the EU.
_______________

Finally, the dam breaks.
Expect a flood.
PoshSpice
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2023 06:55 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I doubt it will have much of an impact.


I believe it reveals a huge impact of the mind boggling hypocrisy of US behavior and rhetoric in Ukraine vs Gaza strewn across the world stage.

The leader of Ireland, among others, has humiliated Biden’s behavior.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2023 07:13 am
@PoshSpice,
PoshSpice wrote:


The leader of Ireland, among others, has humiliated Biden’s behavior.


That's a really weird sentence, and I get the feeling it was cut and pasted.

Ireland does not have a "leader" the head of state is the President, but executive power is wielded by the Taoiseach, similar to the King and Prime Minister in the UK.

I can't see how the Taoiseach could "humiliate" Biden's behaviour.

He could have disagreed, criticised or condemned it.

Biden can be humiliated, his behaviour can't, and the Taoiseach has not humiliated Biden.
PoshSpice
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2023 07:24 am
@izzythepush,
I’ll have to claim the problems in that sentence.
Let me go find the name of the lady who took Biden to task.
 

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