13
   

Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 06:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Islamophobia is also on the rise, but no mention of that.

It's very easy to dismiss all criticism as being motivated by hate and therefore flawed.

By taking that response you could say that all the recent UN votes regarding Gaza were motivated by antisemitism.

It's not true, most anti war demonstrations are motivated by concern for the Palestinian people.

Islamic hostility towards Jewish people is not the same as traditional antisemitism. In the Caliphate established by the prophet Jewish people were treated as second class citizens, but they were not treated any differently from Christians.

The hostility is based on Israel's behaviour.

Compare that to antisemites like Marjorie Taylor Green who claimed Californian wildfires were caused by Jews firing lasers from space.

She has thrown her support full behind Israel because islamophobia and American imperialism trumps antisemitism every day.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 06:52 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Islamophobia is also on the rise, but no mention of that.
I responded only to 'antisemitism', my quotes and links thus are exclusively to it.

In Germany, however, anti-Semitic and anti-Muslim statements are equally punishable by criminal law.
hightor
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 06:57 am
somebody wrote:
They’re whataboutism-ing genocide

No, that's not what's going on:
Merriam-Webster wrote:
Whataboutism is the act or practice of responding to an accusation of wrongdoing by claiming that an offense committed by another is similar or worse, or the response itself.

The discussion concerned the existence of domestic anti-Semitism and the use of the term by the Biden administration.
Comrade Glennn wrote:
The complaint is about the biden administration's green light to Israel's war crimes against the Palestinians, and then immediately labeling any complaints about it as being pro Hamas, and therefore antisemitism.

Anti-Semitism was not being compared to genocide. No one indicated that anti-Semitism was worse than genocide.

Somebody doesn't understand what the term means.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 07:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
But looking at antisemitism without any acknowledgement of islamophobia gives a skewed narrative.

And that is what the last two pages or so have been about.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 08:22 am
@Glennn,
That is a problem here sometimes: when you make a point they can't answer, they mission creep in another point as if it were part of the discussion. If the topic gets too dicey, they dilute it.

You've been making sense to me. I upvoted you all through this thread.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 08:30 am
@hightor,
Quote:
No, that's not what's going on:

Good. Then we can all agree that nothing excuses Israel for their war crimes against the Palestinians, or the extensive U.S. contribution to those war crimes. It's good that we can all agree on the obvious, huh? So let's move on to what we should do about the war crimes being committed by Israel as we speak?

So, what should we do about that all-powerful veto that the U.S. uses at UN Security Council sessions to allow Israel to continue murdering yet more innocent civilians. Since the U.S. is complicit in the war crimes being committed by Israel at this moment, what would you suggest be done about that?
Quote:
Anti-Semitism was not being compared to genocide.

What's being discussed is the biden administration's green light to Israel's war crimes against the people of Palestine going on right now.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 09:01 am
The concept of a chosen people is addressed early on in the Koran, in the second surah.

It acknowledges that the Jews were the chosen people right up until the moment they worshipped the golden calf.

That was when they broke the contract with God.

After that the chosen people were anyone who accepted Allah.

Interpretation is the key, a Sufi would interpret that as being all the Abrahamic religions, Chistianity, Judaism, Islam and some minor ones like the one which regards John the Baptist as the messiah.

A fundamentalist Al Qaida type would interpret it as being just their narrow version of Islam.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 09:41 am
@Glennn,
Netanyahu fell right into a trap. Some two million Gazan civilian residents and maybe ten thousand Hamas fighters in a densely occupied territory from which there is no escape. What did Hamas expect the response would be, knowing how extreme the right-wing government of Israel is and Netanyahu's need to placate the hard-core elements in his coalition government? Any quick response would risk the lives of civilians; any delay would allow Hamas to consolidate and regroup while the Israeli population would be calling for immediate military reprisals.

Quote:
So let's move on to what we should do about the war crimes being committed by Israel as we speak?

I think it's a bit late for that. The U.S. has veto power in the toothless UN Security Council, it's not concerned about being isolated in the world body – as our decades-old Cuban embargo demonstrates – and it doesn't recognize the I.C.C. Any action that should be taken now is stymied by our history of inaction as we allowed the powder keg to exist through some sort of malign neglect rather than upset political, cultural, and corporate ties with Israel.

Quote:
Since the U.S. is complicit in the war crimes being committed by Israel at this moment, what would you suggest be done about that?

Why are you posing this as a question for which there might be a workable solution – emanating from members of this forum, no less? Historically, support for Israel has always be strong in the U.S. – that's only beginning to shift, with young voters opposed to Biden's Israel policy and supporting Trump (who they believe would do a better job). So maybe some time in 2025 the Trump administration will revise our relationship with Israel and move toward a more even-handed policy with regard to the Palestinians? Do you think that's realistic? I don't. And it doesn't change the situation on the ground today.

Quote:
What's being discussed is the biden administration's green light to Israel's war crimes against the people of Palestine going on right now.

And you made charges of anti-Semitism against protestors in the U.S. part of the discussion. While I consider the current conflict, and our part in it, to be basically intractable, I think your take on domestic anti-Semitism is simplistic and that's why I chose to respond to that point.

So, do you have any practical solution, something doable that would end the conflict without incurring any more civilian casualties, something that we might realistically expect to happen? Or are you just posing a rhetorical question which you'll keep bringing up like your obsession with Fauci and the PCR-test cycle-threshold?
Walter Hinteler
 
  6  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 10:12 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
But looking at antisemitism without any acknowledgement of islamophobia gives a skewed narrative.
We Germans have a historical responsibility with regard to the Nazi past and the Holocaust.
Glennn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 10:23 am
@hightor,
Quote:
Netanyahu fell right into a trap. Some two million Gazan civilian residents and maybe ten thousand Hamas fighters in a densely occupied territory from which there is no escape. What did Hamas expect the response would be, knowing how extreme the right-wing government of Israel is and Netanyahu's need to placate the hard-core elements in his coalition government? Any quick response would risk the lives of civilians; any delay would allow Hamas to consolidate and regroup while the Israeli population would be calling for immediate military reprisals.

Yeah, everyone knows the situation. There's a genocide occurring at this moment.
Quote:
I think it's a bit late for that.

It's a bit too late to interrupt Israel's war crimes against the Palestinians? Yeah, sure. All that would do is save innocent lives, wouldn't it?
Quote:
And you made charges of anti-Semitism against protestors in the U.S. part of the discussion.

Provide the quote from my posts that include charges of antisemitism.
Quote:
Or are you just posing a rhetorical question which you'll keep bringing up like your obsession with Fauci and the PCR-test cycle-threshold?

Odd that you would bring up another discussion from another thread, but let's address that. I proved my point about the medical fraud; in fact, I did so in two separate threads. Remember? And then someone locked those threads. Maybe it was someone's reaction to finding out that the CDC lied about being in possession of the virus. Who knows? Responses to betrayal often don't make sense.

See for yourself:

https://able2know.org/topic/557001-1

https://able2know.org/topic/546079-163
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 10:55 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
It's a bit too late to interrupt Israel's war crimes against the Palestinians?

How are you going to make it happen? The damage can't be undone and Israel doesn't appear to be interested in halting its attacks.

Quote:
Provide the quote from my posts that include charges of antisemitism.

You misread my post. You weren't the one making the charges:

And you made [the administration's] charges of anti-Semitism against protestors in the U.S. part of the discussion.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 10:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I understand that, and I appreciate that you've had your back to the wall with regard to Lash's questioning.

However, the situation in Gaza isn't down to antisemitism it's down to the occupation.

As for antisemitism, as I have noted earlier Netanyahu has used it to his own advantage.

There was a spike in antisemitism during Covid with a lot of anti vaxx conspiracy theories, and Netanyahu pointed it out.

Instead of trying to combat it, he cosied up to antisemites like Victor Orban, and he still has tete a tetes with Elon Musk.

Netanyahu has weaponised antisemitism, he uses it to dismiss all criticism of his regime whilst at the same time muting the response of the diaspora.

And the far right antisemites are all supporting Israel from Tommy Robinson to Marjorie Taylor Green.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 11:21 am
@hightor,
Quote:
How are you going to make it happen?

First things first. Do we agree that Israel is committing war crimes against the people of Palestine? And do we agree that the U.S. is lending their support, sending all the tools of destruction necessary to the completion of Israel's war crime?
hightor
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 11:48 am
@Glennn,
Answering my question with two unrelated ones? Obviously you have no idea how you're going to make the hostilities cease. And neither does anyone else.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 12:01 pm
Biden needs to tell Netanyahu to stop or he'll stop all military aid, and instigate an arms embargo which should be fairly easy judging by the atmosphere at the UN.

He should stop using the veto as well.

That would do the trick.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 12:45 pm
Is America (Really) Embracing Authoritarianism?

Umair Haque wrote:
Something remarkable—and sinister's—happening in America. America appears to be embracing...dictatorship. Openly. Eagerly. Enthusiastically, even. Not all Americans, of course, insert the caveat of your choice. But enough for something genuinely rare, not to mention singular in America's history, to be now visible before our eyes: a democracy isn't just sleepwalking towards it, but actively, willingly embracing authoritarianism.

Those of us acquainted with history should shudder at this. We're witnessing something special. You don't see democracies cheering on their demise every day, in manias of Thanatos, death drive, unless it's in decades like these—it's profoundly disturbing, and exceedingly rare, even if it's been, as we'll discuss, normalized, to witness all this, and it deserves to be examined carefully.

Trump's now not just open about what he intends to do as President. It's going further, seemingly, by the day. The "open"part consists of a 1000 page plan to basically purge and transform government into a submissive vessel. This last weekend, his rhetoric, and this is according to the White House, "echoed"...the Nazis. Trump spoke of "vermin" who are "poisoning" "our" "blood," which of course carries the lurid taint of classic fascist scapegoating. Meanwhile, though, far from rejecting all this vehemently, which is what would of course happen in a healthy democracy, Trump's...surged ahead. We're witnessing a democracy approving, in the loosest sense, in other words, of authoritarianism.

Is it really that bad? What to make of all this?

Trump's successfully normalized this stratagem by now, through the familiar authoritarian tactic of one-transgression-at-a-time, the creep which numbs a civil society's defense mechanisms, as it wearily gives up on a new outrage every day, and goes numb. And yet it should concern us all, for obvious reasons. We don't see leaders of advanced democracies speak this way, but dictators, tyrants, and autocrats of other kinds—and that's precisely because such language isn't just language at all: it corrodes norms, violates personhood, licenses fanatics, and tends to be precisely the slippery slope that leads into the abyss. As, of course, is being a "dictator," which is now a demagogic punchline, not a siren of alarm.

Trump's fans are of course eating it up. Asked, they'll say (and there are countless interviews about this) that Trump's just "joking" about being a dictator, or "he doesn't really mean it," or "would it be so bad, anyways?" To give you some indication of how bad it really is, a friend of mine, disheartened bitterly with Biden's stance on Gaza, wondered aloud, "Trump wouldn't have done this."

What's happening here? What's really going on? Are we actually watching a democracy, one of the most powerful in history...again, not just sleepwalk into, but eagerly embrace authoritarianism? And if we are, is this shades—perhaps shadows—of the 1930s, all over again?

What's happening here is that Trump's successfully creating a kind of magic spell, only it's, sadly, very real. He's inducing a kind of sadistic mania amongst his faithful, and amongst many more Americans besides, the kinds who might not be die-hard MAGA believers, but are open to....authoritarianism? I put it in question marks to highlight just how remarkable it is to witness all this. And yet that's the power of the spell. The sadistic mania that's being induced here, which appears to be sending people into histrionic glee.

This is a familiar strategy amongst demagogues. First, create a sense of fear, an existential one—they're coming for our wives, kids, land, and so forth. Then, dehumanize them—"they're" not people at all, just "vermin." What we do with vermin? Nobody much has to spell it out, because the implication's clear, especially to the fanatics and extremists, who now think of themselves as carrying a license. Beneath all this is the notion that "blood" is being tainted, and its purity belongs only to the "real' Volk, the masters, the supreme.

Why does that magic spell work? Think of American life. Above all, Americans feel powerless. They're in profound despair, stress, distress. Statistic after statistic proves it—we've discussed them tons, so I won't do so again here, suffice it to say that 70% of Americans or more are distressed about the state of the nation, the future, their own plight. When people are this wounded, it's all the easier to manipulate their emotions. To give them a feeling of power, belonging, meaning, and purpose again—even if it's a malignant one.

The sadistic mania, in other words, is very real. It's about punishment, and at a disproportionate, overkill level—that's the sadism. The plan, and it's a literal plan, isn't just to be President again, it's to purge and transform every last aspect and agency of government—overkill. It's to wreak vengeance on a numinous, as yet undefined set of enemies, from the much-hated journalists, to the opposition, and then expand from there. And of course, the clear implication of all the above is that the object of the mission is to purify the blood of the nation, and thus restore its fortune again, because only the pure are righteous, and deserve moral justice. See the means—overkill—and see the end: not just domination, nor authoritarianism, but something more totalitarianism.

In all totalitarianisms, there's more than a hint of sadism. Sadism is very much part of the project—the psychosocial dimension, if you like. What I mean by that is that sadism gives the project's true believers, and most eager participants, precisely what they'd lacked, yet craved. Power, belonging, meaning, purpose. I have this much power—I can punish you, any way I like. I'm the one who truly belongs, and I prove it by dehumanizing you. My life has meaning again—to hurt you, to take away your your humanity. And finally, infamously, I'm "one" with the fascist mission, which is what "fascii" are, the "bundle of sticks": my purpose is to be the sword of vengeance and the threshing scythe of purification.

So totalitarianism thrives on sadism. Think about so many examples from history, and how terrible they were. Stalin's reign of terror. Countless examples from East Asia, replete with the worst abuses. And of course the Nazis themselves, and their almost cartoonish sadism. The sadism is there for a reason. It bonds people together in the project. It's the psychosocial glue of implosive movements. The reward, the rush, the thrill, that replaces the despair, pessimism, and hopelessness.

Why am I bringing all this up, and diving so deep into how it all works? The question was: is America really embracing dictatorship? Now we can begin to answer that question a little. The kind of sadism we're beginning to see is a hallmark of an embrace of a certain kind. When demagogues turn this sadistic, it's one thing—when they're met with roars, cheers, and adulation, it's quite another. Both together warn of a fatal embrace.

That embrace, though is even darker than mere aspiring authoritarianism. I used the word totalitarianism above, and I did so for a reason. The transition from authoritarianism to totalitarianism is precisely what confronts America now. The first Trump years were an attempt at the former, which ended, spectacularly, with an attempted series of coups. The second Trump years, though, promise to be different—from the sophisticated plan to reshape governance, the rhetoric now at the outer edges, the manias, the willing denial. All these are elements of totalitarian movements, which are more advanced, harder, more rigid even than mere authoritarian ones—devoted to totalizing society around a project, idea, end, mission. Total control, under an authoritarian's thumb, plan, purges, mania, approval, all.

So the danger now isn't just that America embraces authoritarianism—but of a more advanced degree still: it's that totalitarianism is now openly proposed, and met with approval, not just from a die-hard fringe, but from a very significant portion of society—even a majority. Who aren't thinking it through very clearly yet, because the price of the despair and hopelessness that's now endemic is that the rational mind shuts down. Think about that for a second, because it should give us all pause. Trump's open about the agenda of totalitarianism, and yet he's currently the leading candidate.

I put it to you in these precise terms for a reason. All along the way, America's establishment has been behind the curve, and struggled to understand what sort of movement it really confronts now. First, it was slow to say fascism, during Trump's election campaign and Presidency, then it was slow to say authoritarianism, until Jan 6th happened. Today, the situation's different—and yet still the same. The White House, among many others, from the New York Times and The Washington Post, speaks of fascism and the Nazis.

And yet even at this stage, like before, the understanding is still slow to arrive. Totalitarianism is the agenda. The sadistic manias it's met with signal it's acceptance. These are severe warning signals, and though we've all been inured to Trump, his flock, American collapse, and the ongoing decline of democracy, and it's wearying to have to even consider all this—what is that a wise mind once said about vigilance? theissue

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 03:49 pm
This accurate observation from Steve Benen is testimony to how dangerously insane the American right has become.
Quote:
Trump is afraid to use the word "vaccine" in public because he doesn't want to alienate his followers.

But he's not afraid to use words like "vermin" and "poisoning the blood" because he knows the fascistic rhetoric *won't* alienate his followers.
0 Replies
 
Bogulum
 
  4  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 05:26 pm
Don’t know if anyone else already shared this, but the Colorado Supreme Court just ruled that Trump can’t appear on their ballot in 2024.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 06:08 pm
@Bogulum,
Like a glacier maybe, but inexorably like a glacier. Nothing will stop the Orange Shitgibbon slide into prison with no political 2nd Act.



In a bombshell decision, Colorado’s Supreme Court ruled that Donald Trump’s candidacy in the state is prohibited on constitutional grounds. Former Prosecutor Kristy Greenberg, Historian Ruth Ben-Ghiat, former Prosecutor Glenn Kirschner and The Guardian’s Hugo Lowell join to discuss. - Aired on 12/19/2023.

Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2023 07:20 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Answering my question with two unrelated ones? Obviously you have no idea how you're going to make the hostilities cease. And neither does anyone else.

You're deflecting.

Before we discuss solutions, I'd like to know that we both see the same problem.

Do we agree that Israel is committing war crimes against the people of Palestine? And do we agree that the U.S. is lending their support, sending all the tools of destruction necessary to the completion of Israel's current war crimes? A simple yes or no will do.

Or, do you disagree with that assessment?
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.17 seconds on 11/22/2024 at 11:26:42