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Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2023 02:36 pm
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53383397012_f0c4c59cec.jpg
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2023 02:59 pm
America just vetoed the UN security council resolution demanding a ceasefire after being the only nation to vote against it. The UK abstained.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2023 08:12 pm
@izzythepush,
And not the only time by a factor of hundreds. The Soviet Union did the same for their client nations. There have been episodes of dueling vetoes.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 05:46 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Which is why we should get rid of the permanent members' vetoes.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 10:03 am
@izzythepush,
Exactamundo.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 10:07 am
https://assets.amuniversal.com/b71d1050776a013c2c91005056a9545d.png
0 Replies
 
PoshSpice
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 10:19 am
If one vote can cancel the rest of the votes, the UN is meaningless.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 11:21 am
@PoshSpice,
PoshSpice wrote:
If one vote can cancel the rest of the votes, the UN is meaningless.

The reform of the UN Security Council is a core concern of many member states in order to preserve its legitimacy and authority. (Spoiler: google who doesn't want to ... country starts wit "R")
An adaptation to today's geopolitical realities is a necessary part of such a reform of this important body of the multilateral world order.

But until then, we have to live with the way things have been since 1949.
Quote:
United Nations Charter, Chapter V:
The Security Council
[...]
Article 25
The Members of the United Nations agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present Charter.
[...]
VOTING
Article 27
Each member of the Security Council shall have one vote.
Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members.
Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting.
UN Charta

Quote:
Provisional Rules of Procedure (S/96/Rev.7)
Article 30 of the Charter stipulates that the Security Council shall adopt its own rules of procedure, and in 1946 the Council adopted its Provisional Rules of Procedure (S/96). Subsequently the Provisional Rules of Procedure were modified on several occasions; the last revision was made in 1982 (S/96/Rev.7) in order to add Arabic as the sixth official language, in conformity with General Assembly resolution 35/219 of 17 December 1980.
[...]
Chapter VII: Voting
Rule 40
Voting in the Security Council shall be in accordance with the relevant Articles of the Charter and of the Statute of the International Court of Justice.
Source
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 11:44 am
@izzythepush,
Agree.

The permanent member veto is as much an anachronism as is our Electoral College being used to elect our president.

Both should be Deep 6ed.
PoshSpice
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 11:56 am
Back in the day when I was pro-American (more ignorant than currently), I knew the US would never acquiesce to the will of a representative international body and said so here. I still believe NATO & the UN are nothing more than US-owned rubber stamps and proxies.

The UN was a way for the US to manufacture consent, sort of how our collapsing enterprise still tries to convince the citizens that we have a democracy, perpetually commanding them to vote to ‘save’ it. But the US does as it pleases, and it wants all your natural resources. So hand them over.

The only modicum of good news is at least the world sees it now thanks to Israel.

The bad news is nothing short of a miracle can put a stop to it.


hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 12:00 pm
@PoshSpice,
Quote:
...(more ignorant than currently)...

It's good to know you admit to still being somewhat ignorant! Very Happy

hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 12:39 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The permanent member veto is as much an anachronism as is our Electoral College being used to elect our president.


(Add the 2nd Amendment, as well.)

And both have to viewed in their respective historical context. The League of Nations was similarly formed after a world war in an atmosphere of sorrow, relief, and hope for the future. As you know, the America Firsters of the day – the "Irreconcilables", led by Sen. Borah – refused to ratify the Treaty of Versailles and the L of N. Twenty-five years later, the world had paid an even bigger price for the uncontrolled militarism and nationalism that led to WWII and the victorious allies hoped to forge an effective international organization, without making the mistakes that were made before. Giving the USA a permanent seat was the only way the Senate would approve our joining the international body. As with so many of these agreements, the countries in control were loath to surrender their power, even as political and economic realities changed.

I've long felt there should be provisions for reviewing the effectiveness of laws and treaties, and reforming them, instead of just assuming that, by the jeezus, we got it right the first time. Lawmakers and diplomats are fallible, economies are in flux, and unpredictable events occur on a local and global scale with depressing frequency – and we're stuck, our hands are tied, because 25, 75, or 225 years ago members of the ruling class affixed their names to a piece of ******* paper.
PoshSpice
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 12:45 pm
@hightor,
If only everyone was self-aware.
0 Replies
 
PoshSpice
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 12:51 pm
@PoshSpice,
Meant to refer to this excerpt from Walter’s post:

Quote:
Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting.


Since we are providing Israel with billions in $ and military ordnance, boots, & god knows what else, the US is most def ‘a party to’ the dispute, but the rules don’t apply to the US.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 01:03 pm
@PoshSpice,
PoshSpice wrote:
Since we are providing Israel with billions in $ and military ordnance, boots, & god knows what else, the US is most def ‘a party to’ the dispute, but the rules don’t apply to the US.
So you want to re-write the Geneva Convention as well as other international law?
PoshSpice
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 01:18 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I’d like someone to enforce the Geneva Convention and international law.

Israel and the US should be on trial for war crimes right now.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 01:55 pm
@PoshSpice,
Israel is bound by Common Article 3 as is Hamas, since Common Article 3 binds the non-state party as well ("each party to the conflict").

Article 34 of the Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits taking civilian hostages.
PoshSpice
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 02:08 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Do any of these rules or statutes differentiate between a captive occupied people and the country occupying them?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 02:22 pm
@PoshSpice,
PoshSpice wrote:
Do any of these rules or statutes differentiate between a captive occupied people and the country occupying them?
Eh, hello: what do you think how conflicts and wars arise?
0 Replies
 
PoshSpice
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2023 04:27 pm
Yes or no?
0 Replies
 
 

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