12
   

Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2023 04:31 pm
@Bogulum,
Quote:
"thoughtless", "crude", "tasteless"

It's not as if these terms are anything other than subjective. Go through any list of humorists and comedians and find any name where the writer or comic was not held, by some, as thoughtless, crude or tasteless. Read Twain's Letters From Earth and then consider how many Southern states would ban that book if it was held in school libraries (or public libraries).
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2023 04:38 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Simple rule in comedy, when not putting yourself down, punch up, not down.

As I just said, consider who/what I satirized. It wasn't the passengers of the submersible.

But as regards your "rule"... That's wrong. Much humor - the best of it, I think - is directed not either up or down but across. By which I mean that it refers to all of us. To human weaknesses and foibles of the sort we all suffer from.
Bogulum
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2023 05:43 pm
@blatham,
You're right about one thing - comedy is subjective. What's funny to one ain't necessarily so to another.

The first thing I thought about when I saw your 'they should market the wristwatch' "joke" was the face of the 19 year old who died in that submersible implosion. I'd seen a picture he'd taken with his dad who also died in the sub not long before their last trip in the vehicle. He seemed so proud to be doing stuff with his dad. I read that his mom had tried to talk him out of the trip, but he wanted to make his dad proud.

It's easy to make fun of the rich. They often seem so clueless and so self- absorbed. **** 'em, you know? **** Elon Musk with his dumbass wanting-to -colonize-Mars-and-****-up-Twitter nonsense.


But when that craft collapsed, I was repelled by the piling on of people who wanted to treat it like a drunk driver who had stolen a car and driven off a pier. "******* idiots" "Serves them right", and so forth.

You talk about just trying to satirize the situation - like the great humorists do. That's fine. Like we said, it's all subjective, what's funny or not. I'm not Harold Bloom. And you're not Mel Brooks. You told a joke I thought was tasteless. To each their own.


blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2023 11:14 pm
@Bogulum,
I'm totally unbothered when someone says a joke (of mine or of anyone's) was in poor taste or offensive. I simply don't care. Do you think Carlin did? Or Ricky Gervais or Norm MacDonald or Mort Sahl or Larry David or Lenny Bruce or Richard Prior, etc etc etc.

Decades ago, Timex ran a marketing campaign where their watches would be put through some grueling punishments which they would survive intact. The marketing line was, "Timex. It takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'". Now imagine if a working wristwatch was recovered in this submersible accident and there was a news item on it naming the brand. How eager would that company be to make certain the news coverage would be widely disseminated (which they would do covertly). That was the joke.

Now, if you were to say, "Well, that's not very funny", fine. That's the proper metric even if it is subjective. But as to someone finding a joke tasteless, I have no fucks to give.

izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 02:35 am
@blatham,
The other rule about comedy is it should be funny, and your "gag" wasn't.

Sorry.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 04:08 am
Quote:
We are in a bizarre moment.

If the U.S. government were operating within its normal parameters, my first story tonight would be about new federal charges that Senator Bob Menendez (D-NJ) was acting as an agent of Egypt while chairing the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Democratic rules in the Senate required Menendez to step down from that chair when he was charged with bribery in late September.

The new charges are serious indeed. As Senator John Fetterman (D-PA) said today, calling for Menendez to be expelled from the Senate: “We cannot have an alleged foreign agent in the United States Senate. This is not a close call.”

If the government were working as usual, I would also be writing about Congress’s response to the crisis in the Middle East and the war in Ukraine, as well as the jockeying over the appropriations bills necessary to fund the government for 2024. But the House was in session for just two minutes today as the Republicans continued to struggle to get behind a new speaker, leaving Congress paralyzed.

That paralysis means that the House is not addressing these crises.

The crisis in Israel is uppermost in the United States. The news has been plagued with disinformation as the algorithms on social media have promoted fake stories, but President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken have been crystal clear in their condemnation of the attack on Israel by Hamas last Saturday and in their promise that the U.S. will stand with Israel.

They have also made it clear that Israel must operate according to the rules of war in order to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas does not observe those rules, and various U.S. officials have compared Hamas’s brutality to that of the terrorist group ISIS, while nonetheless reinforcing the importance of the rule of law. Israeli officials say that 1,300 people were killed and more than 3,000 wounded in the initial attack; officials in Gaza say that Israeli airstrikes since have killed more than 1,500 people and wounded more than 6,600.

The airstrikes, consisting of 6,000 munitions in six days, have forced hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of their homes, and Israel has cut food, fuel, and electricity to Gaza, saying the siege will not end until all the hostages Hamas took are returned.

Talks with Egypt about constructing humanitarian corridors out of Gaza have broken down, but talks about rushing humanitarian aid into Gaza from Egypt continue.

Secretary Blinken is in Israel and has expanded his trip to the troubled region, visiting not only Israel and Jordan, as originally announced, but also Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Egypt, where he will meet with senior officials. There, the State Department said, he will “reiterate his condemnation of the terrorist attacks in Israel in the strongest terms,” “reaffirm the United States’ solidarity with the government and people of Israel,” and “engage regional partners on efforts to help prevent the conflict from spreading, secure the immediate and safe release of hostages, and identify mechanisms for the protection of civilians.”

Meanwhile, a former Hamas leader has called for protests across the Muslim world tomorrow and for Israel’s neighbors to join the fight against Israel.

Starting tomorrow, the U.S. government will begin running charter flights to enable U.S. citizens and their immediate family members who have not been able to book commercial flights to leave Israel. Twenty-seven American citizens have been confirmed dead in the attack, and fourteen are unaccounted for.

Tonight the Israeli military told the United Nations that the 1.1 million people in northern Gaza must evacuate into the southern part within 24 hours as it prepares to go into Gaza, at least in part to target the extensive network of tunnels Hamas has constructed for its operations. U.N. officials said the U.N. “considers it impossible for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences.”

The crisis in Ukraine has not ended while all eyes are on the crisis in the Middle East. The Institute for the Study of War concluded that Russian forces have launched “a significant and ongoing offensive effort” in the past two days but “have not secured any major breakthroughs,” as Ukraine’s forces are “inflicting relatively heavy losses.” Like Israel, Ukraine needs additional funding.

Meanwhile, House Republicans are further from reorganizing the House tonight than they were even a day ago. House majority leader Steve Scalise (R-LA), who won the conference’s secret ballot over Representative Jim Jordan (R-OH) yesterday, has given up hope of turning that victory into a win on the House floor and has withdrawn from the race. Former speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) broke the secrecy of the conference to tell reporters that Scalise didn’t have the votes, a signal that McCarthy is not intending to fade into the background of this struggle.

Aaron Fritschner, the chief of staff for Representative Don Beyer (D-VA), noted today that since it’s mid-session, no new candidate for speaker has prime positions to offer in exchange for votes. Leadership positions have already been handed out, and legislative promises have already been made. That leaves a potential speaker with relatively little leverage to consolidate power.

Representative David Joyce (R-OH) revealed how badly the negotiations are going when he told Jake Sherman of Punchbowl News that he’s talking to Republicans and Democrats about giving acting speaker Patrick McHenry (R-NC) more power for 30 to 60 days so that the House can pass a funding bill while the Republicans try to get their act together.

The Republican chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Mike McCaul of Texas, today told reporters, “Every day that goes by, it gets more dangerous.” He continued: “I see a lot of threats out there, but one of the biggest threats I see is in that room [pointing to where the Republicans were meeting], because we can’t unify as a conference and put a speaker in the chair together.”

House minority leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY) today said it is “urgently necessary” for the Republicans to “get their act together and elect a Speaker from within their own ranks, as it is the responsibility of the majority party to do, or have traditional Republicans break with the extremists within the House Republican Conference and partner with Democrats on a bipartisan path forward. We are ready, willing, and able to do so. I know there are traditional Republicans who are good women and men who want to see government function, but they are unable to do it within the ranks of their own conference, which is dominated by the extremist wing, and that’s why we continue to extend the hand of bipartisanship to them.”

Journalist Brian Tyler Cohen, who hosts the podcast No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, summed up the day when he wrote: “The fact that ALL Republicans would rather fight over Scalise (who attended a neo-Nazi event) or Jordan (who allegedly covered up rampant sexual abuse) rather than simply work with Democrats to elect a Speaker says it all.”

hcr
0 Replies
 
Bogulum
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 05:27 am
@blatham,
Quote:
I'm totally unbothered when someone says a joke (of mine or of anyone's) was in poor taste or offensive. I simply don't care. Do you think Carlin did? Or Ricky Gervais or Norm MacDonald or Mort Sahl or Larry David or Lenny Bruce or Richard Prior, etc etc etc.


All famous, accomplished comedians (That’s P-r-y-o-r, not “Prior”, for future reference). I have no idea why you think your efforts at comedy should be considered in the same light as any of these people, but that’s another issue, having to do with one’s ego affecting one’s own estimation of their importance in the scheme of things.

But to answer your question, yes – I think they gave some degree of “care” about what people found offensive. At some time during their lives and careers, I have no doubt in my mind that all comedians have got to consider exactly that. They’re not superhuman beings, impervious to others’ feelings. They just make their livings trying to make people laugh. They all have mothers, and some have children. Some have gay or black friends. Some lost people under specific circumstances (like wars, or tragedies like 9/11). If they tried to make jokes about certain things, I think they probably were all called upon to weigh the consequences of telling certain jokes. I’m sure they thought better of certain jokes, and so they never got told.
I mean, what are you trying to sell here? Of COURSE comedians have to consider from time to time whether or not to cross certain lines.

Quote:
Decades ago, Timex ran a marketing campaign where their watches would be put through some grueling punishments which they would survive intact. The marketing line was, "Timex. It takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'". Now imagine if a working wristwatch was recovered in this submersible accident and there was a news item on it naming the brand. How eager would that company be to make certain the news coverage would be widely disseminated (which they would do covertly). That was the joke.


And I think the joke sucked. And I think no wristwatch company would touch it with a ten foot pole. We disagree. You think it was funny. I don’t. My comments about it just happen to call YOUR JUDGMENT into question. THAT’S what’s wrinkling your ******* bloomers.

Quote:
Now, if you were to say, "Well, that's not very funny", fine. That's the proper metric even if it is subjective. But as to someone finding a joke tasteless, I have no fucks to give.


I said what I said, the way I said what I said. I have no fucks to give about what you have no fucks to give.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 05:37 am
@blatham,
Ricky Gervais is a transphobic bigot.

And he's not funny.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 05:39 am
@blatham,
You carry on abusing LGBT people, People of Colour and anyone else you don't feel is worthy of being treated like a human being.

Carry on telling yourself how on edge and radical you are while insulting and deriding people who can't fight back.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 05:53 am
@blatham,
Good one. It zeroes in on the crassly opportunistic character of modern marketing. Same way aggressive-looking SUVs are marketed to suburban families who will never take them off-road and cleated hiking boots are sold to be worn by fashion-conscious teens at the mall.
0 Replies
 
Bogulum
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 07:06 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You carry on abusing LGBT people, People of Colour and anyone else you don't feel is worthy of being treated like a human being.

Carry on telling yourself how on edge and radical you are while insulting and deriding people who can't fight back.

Unless you know, or have read something here that I haven't - I don't actually see Blatham doing this - "abusing LGBT people, People of Colour and anyone else you don't feel is worthy of being treated like a human being". I think his inclusion of Gervais' name was just highfalutin name dropping, not necessarily his cosigning of the greasier jokes Gervais likes to tell.

I would tend to agree that he thinks very highly of his own relative amount of edginess and wit.
Hey he may be right. Look! Hightor thought it was funny.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 07:57 am
@Bogulum,
There's a difference between humor and satire. The Canadian theologian Bernard Lonergan put it this way: "Satire turns red with indignation; humor blushes with humility."
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 08:40 am
@Bogulum,
You're probably right, but Gervais is the go to comic for all kinds of bigots.

If anyone feels the need to use him to justify anything I assume they agree with his bigotry and react accordingly.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 09:36 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
@blatham,
The other rule about comedy is it should be funny, and your "gag" wasn't.

Sorry.

No need to be sorry. Anyone who has set out to write jokes or humorous bits recognizes that some of them fail or need to be re-worked. It's why Steve Martin or Chris Rock work their material for two years before they set out to do their tour or their special.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 09:39 am
@Bogulum,
Snood. Not quite sure what is up with you but I won't be returning fire.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 09:45 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Ricky Gervais is... not funny.

Golly. How many successful, working comics/humorists would, do you think, agree with you on that?
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 09:50 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
You carry on abusing LGBT people, People of Colour and anyone else you don't feel is worthy of being treated like a human being.

But I really don't feel in any way superior to those categories of folks. How could I? My father was born in England.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 09:52 am
@hightor,
Quote:
The Canadian theologian Bernard Lonergan put it this way: "Satire turns red with indignation; humor blushes with humility."

That I like very much. We Canadian Bernards are something, aren't we.

***************

And Christ in shitty napkins, the last couple of pages here counts as perhaps the silliest conversation I've ever been involved in on A2K.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 11:14 am
@blatham,
And it's why Pete and Dud could get ratarsed and produce some of the funniest stuff ever made.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2023 11:16 am
@blatham,
People don't spend two years writing a stand up routine.

If they did it would never happen.

(As anyone who has been on the comedy circuit can tell you.)
 

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