16
   

Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 06:49 am
@hightor,
It would have been best to prevent Biden from giving a state of the union speech in the first place. Wait until we have a legitimate president again first.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 07:00 am
@oralloy,
In what sense do you believe that Joe Biden is not a "legitimate" president? He campaigned and won enough delegates in the primaries to be the nominee of his party, and then campaigned successfully to beat Trump in the November election by eight million votes. Can you explain your reasoning? And if you say anything about a "stolen election" you'll simply reveal that you've been snookered, lack critical thinking skills, and aren't worth engaging on a discussion forum.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 08:54 am
As residents near Ohio train derailment begin to file lawsuits, some report lingering coughs or chest pain

Seems like more should be done about the safety of these residents of Ohio from both federal and state level. Also, seems to me there should be more regulations about those chemicals on the trains to begin with.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 09:01 am
@revelette1,
As it turns out, the CDC edited the toxicology profile for vinyl chloride just two weeks before the train derailment in East Palestine. They changed the lethal exposure from 100PPM to 100,000PPM. Boy ya gotta keep yer eyes on those guys I tell ya!

In fact, the CDC’s website page for vinyl chloride was recently modified as well. An archived version displays a longer, more detailed FAQ page before the changes were made. The screenshot below shows a long list of FAQs with additional information. The profile initially had the following sections: “How can vinyl chloride affect children?” and “Has the federal government made recommendations to protect human health?” – but both have since been removed.

Wonder why they did that; just kidding.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 09:30 am
@Glennn,
So what, you think the Biden administration edited the profile, then what? Caused a train derailment full of chemicals in a red state out of some kind of hate for the people who live in East Palestine, Ohio?

You guys live for unlikely conspiracies, it is so unhelpful in any meaningful discussion.
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 09:51 am
@revelette1,
I didn't mention the Administration. Don't be such a hair-trigger. Stop and read what I wrote before having your kneejerk reaction.

I said that the CDC edited the toxicology profile for vinyl chloride just two weeks before the train derailment in East Palestine. They changed the lethal exposure from 100PPM to 100,000PPM. The question was why they would do that.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 10:39 am
@revelette1,
Conspiracies are the price of freedom

The liberal dream will always have losers

Terry Eagleton wrote:
Here’s a conspiracy theory of my own invention. Why did Jack Ruby kill Lee Harvey Oswald? Readers under the age of 80 may need to know that Jack Ruby was a Dallas bar owner and small-time crook who shot dead Oswald, the alleged assassin of President John F. Kennedy. Nobody has ever thought that Ruby did this out of patriotic indignation. Somebody wanted to silence Oswald for good, and Ruby was the instrument they chose to do so.

But who? There’s evidence that Ruby was a low-level sidekick of the Mafia, so maybe it was the Mafia who shot Kennedy. But why kill Oswald as well? It’s here that my devilishly ingenious theory comes in. There’s no real evidence that the Mob killed the President, but they might have been incensed that someone else had. Not because they had any love for their leader, but because they had intended to assassinate him themselves. After all, they threatened the lives of both Kennedy brothers several times. Before they could get round to it, however, a private entrepreneur called Oswald stepped in and did it instead. By having Oswald bumped off by a known associate of theirs, the Mafia made it look as though Oswald, had he lived, could have revealed their guilt. My theory, then, is that the Mob bumped Oswald off because they didn’t kill Kennedy. They just wanted people to think they had.

Is this true? Probably not. When it comes to the death of JFK, the hardest question is who didn’t do it. There’s a comically long list of possible candidates: Oswald, the CIA, the FBI, the Dallas police, Lyndon B. Johnson, Kennedy’s driver or his bodyguard, Right-wing Cubans, the Teamsters Union, perhaps (who knows?) a 21-year-old Harrison Ford. Members of QAnon probably believe they were all in it together. As with equality and diversity programmes, genuine conspiracies must leave nobody out.

One shouldn’t be too cynical about conspiracies. After all, as new UnHerd polling has shown, more people in Britain are conspiratorially-minded than aren’t. But it’s true that there isn’t One Big Conspiracy, largely because there doesn’t need to be; it’s also true that people regularly gather together in private to plot the downfall of their enemies. On the whole, however, liberal capitalist states, like dishwashers, work all by themselves (when they work at all). They don’t depend on people meeting in missile-proof bunkers to plot how to stay in power. Modern societies don’t rely on some kind of collective consciousness to keep themselves afloat, partly because modern citizens are atomised rather than collective. In fact, consciousness or belief hardly comes into it. As long as you don’t try to overthrow the state, you can believe pretty much what you like. This is known as liberalism.

Besides, the more individuals are in the know, the more fragile a conspiracy becomes. One reason why the US moon-landing wasn’t a put-up job is that it would have involved too many people, any one of whom could have blown the gaff. And if the truth (as conspirators see it) had got out, the United States would have suffered the most calamitous loss of credibility in its history. Its reputation would have been trashed beyond repair. Fear of being discovered is a primary reason why some events can’t be faked, just as one reason why most politicians try not to lie is not because they are more angelic beings than the rest of us, but because the consequences of being found out mean that it just isn’t worth it.

If great masses of people maintain a certain belief over long periods of time, one can be fairly sure that there is something in it. This doesn’t mean that the belief in question is true, but it’s unlikely to be complete nonsense either. Myths tend to have a core of truth. For many centuries, everybody thought that the Sun moved around the Earth, which isn’t true; but it was a rational belief all the same, because the evidence seemed to support it. Much the same goes for paranoia. It isn’t true that creatures from Saturn have placed a secret device in your skull to beam your every thought to a control centre in the Glastonbury Tor, but it’s true that a mighty amount of surveillance goes on, much of it secret. Or to put the point more pithily, just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean the bastards aren’t out to get you. No civilisation in history has ever spied on itself so relentlessly.

Those who genuinely go off the deep end are those who imagine that we live our lives in private. The idea that what we do is covertly directed by a cabal of obscenely wealthy paedophiles is a delusion — but if you drop the “covertly” and “paedophiles”, it us not far from the truth. We are indeed governed by an elite, but there’s nothing particularly secretive about it. You can see them strolling around Davos or read about them in the newspapers. The phrase “Masters of the Universe” isn’t just a piece of flashy science fiction. There is a sovereign superpower whose presence can be felt in every nook and cranny of the globe, but its name is capital, not the Knights Templar. Like all power, what it needs to sustain itself is knowledge. Knowledge is no longer just what is conveyed in seminars, but priceless stuff which people are prepared to kill for.

Conspiracy theorists are convinced that everything hangs together, which is indeed a symptom of paranoia. For the paranoid, nothing happens by chance. Even a gust of wind is secretly intended. The fact that the Prime Minister has five letters in both his first name and surname must surely be trying to tell us something. Freud thought that the nearest thing to paranoia was philosophy, because philosophers (he was thinking of the Hegelian type) also see connections between apparently unrelated items. There must be some way in which my left foot and the Vatican are secretly interrelated.

Once again, this isn’t complete nonsense. Even the most trivial of our actions send ripple effects through the thick mesh of social existence, breeding unexpected consequences in unpredictable places. None of our acts is purely our own. Reading this essay may cause you to tear great clumps of hair from your head, thus making you look too frightful to attend the dinner this evening at which you would have been offered the Governorship of the Bank of England. And don’t just blame me: blame the editors, sub-editors, technical assistants and so on. We all had a hand in tearing your hair out. It was a conspiracy, but not a conscious one.

These ripple effects are random. None of them needed to happen, or to happen in exactly the way they did. And this is where they differ from conspiracies. For the conspiratorial mind, nothing whatsoever is random, any more than it is for the paranoid. This is an alarming thought in one sense but a consoling one in another. A world of chance and contingency is a bewildering one, upending our schemes and thwarting our purposes. Far better to imagine that there’s a plot to it all, in both senses of the word, than accept the fact that a lot of things just happen, without any particular rhyme or reason, and that this is part of the price we pay for freedom. This was presumably what Harold Macmillan had in mind when he remarked to a reporter that the hardest thing about trying to run the country was “events, dear boy, events”.

Ironically, however, American conspiracy theorists are lovers of freedom. “Liberty or death!” ranks among their slogans, and by refusing to wear masks during the Covid pandemic some of them ended up with both. Among other things, conspiracies are symptoms of the anxiety which comes from freedom — from living in the precarious, unpredictable world of late modernity. They are antidotes to the open-endedness of history. Those who spin these yarns are for the most part on the wrong side of that history — those washed up by so-called modernisation, men and women who need someone to blame for their lousy living conditions but who point an accusing finger at fantasies of their own creation.

Conspiracy theories are also reactions to a diffuse, fractured, conflictive society in which there are just too many competing narratives around, so that falling back on a grand narrative which makes sense of everything is profoundly appealing. For a blessed moment, the whole lot falls neatly into place, as an opaque, impossibly complex world becomes luminously simple, purposeful and transparent. Because these myths spring from insecurity, which in turn breeds hatred, the grand narrative in question is almost always a sinister one. Anyone with an eye to how the world is going will have no quarrel with that, even if they don’t believe that Nancy Pelosi is a North Korean spy. They will have no quarrel either with the central assumption of the QAnonites and their ilk — that behind the surfaces of social life there lurks some exceedingly nasty realities, and that the official story is rarely the whole truth of the matter. What you see is most definitely not what you get. The good news is that no conspiracy can be entirely successful, since if it were we wouldn’t know about it.

unherd
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 11:07 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
I didn't mention the Administration. Don't be such a hair-trigger. Stop and read what I wrote before having your kneejerk reaction.

I said that the CDC edited the toxicology profile for vinyl chloride just two weeks before the train derailment in East Palestine. They changed the lethal exposure from 100PPM to 100,000PPM. The question was why they would do that.


Because they knew the train with chemicals in it would derail in two weeks, so to ward off any pressure on themselves, they changed the lethal exposure figures. Why else? Wish I had their crystal ball.


Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 11:31 am
Quote:
The election conspiracist Kristina Karamo, overwhelmingly defeated last year in her bid to become Michigan secretary of state, was chosen on Saturday to lead the state Republican party for the next two years.

Karamo defeated a 10-candidate field dominated by far-right candidates to win the position after a party convention that lasted nearly 11 hours.
The Guardian
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 11:52 am
@revelette1,
He never stops, he's an obsessive.

I try not to encourage him.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 01:16 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
In what sense do you believe that Joe Biden is not a "legitimate" president? He campaigned and won enough delegates in the primaries to be the nominee of his party, and then campaigned successfully to beat Trump in the November election by eight million votes. Can you explain your reasoning?

Yes. The Democrats unjustly declared that Donald Trump was illegitimate and used that declaration to hobble his presidency. I think that it is entirely fair for the same thing to be done back to them.

Also, the Democrats always strenuously oppose any measure that might detect cheating, so I don't see why lack of evidence of cheating should be considered persuasive in their favor.


hightor wrote:
And if you say anything about a "stolen election" you'll simply reveal that you've been snookered, lack critical thinking skills, and aren't worth engaging on a discussion forum.

That's just standard progressive intolerance for anyone who disagrees with their demented ideology.
Mame
 
  3  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 02:15 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Also, the Democrats always strenuously oppose any measure that might detect cheating, so I don't see why lack of evidence of cheating should be considered persuasive in their favor.


Of course they don't oppose measures that might detect cheating. And if I recall correctly, the only ones found to be cheating were all Republicans.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 02:55 pm
@Mame,
That is incorrect. Democrats always block any measure that would detect cheating.

One example of the kind of measure that they always oppose is: secure photo IDs in order to prevent people from voting under other people's names.
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 03:04 pm
@revelette1,
No, I mean if you weren't limited to sarcasm, what would you think about an Agency increasing the lethal dose of Vinyl Chloride from 100 ppm to 100,000 ppm?

You brought it up. I thought I'd expand on it.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 03:23 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
secure photo IDs in order to prevent people from voting under other people's names.
Hasn't ever been necessary in Australia, and no-one thinks either party is cheating elections over here.
thack45
 
  5  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 03:28 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

what would you think about an Agency increasing the lethal dose of Vinyl Chloride from 100 ppm to 100,000 ppm?


Well, they didn't, so there's that.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 03:45 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
The Democrats unjustly declared that Donald Trump was illegitimate...

I don't recall anyone claiming that Trump didn't win a majority in the Electoral College or that the election was "stolen". There were complaints about Comey's announcement in late October that he was reopening the Hillary Clinton investigation and there was criticism of the Russian activity in support of Trump. But Clinton conceded and Democrats acknowledged that Trump had won the election.
Quote:
...and used that declaration to hobble his presidency.

Trump's inability to govern was the result of his own deficiencies. Biden has managed to perform satisfactorily even in the face of partisan accusations of a stolen election and low popular approval. It's obvious that Trump just wasn't up to the job.
Quote:
That's just standard progressive intolerance for anyone who disagrees with their demented ideology.

Expecting people to accept established facts doesn't reflect a "demented ideology" – it's a basic feature of a functioning society. There's no reason not to accept that Biden won fairly – even the news organization that accused him of electoral fraud admits that he won the election and is the legitimate president.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 07:26 pm
@vikorr,
Same here in Canada. Never been an issue.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2023 10:42 pm
@hightor,
vikorr wrote:
Hasn't ever been necessary in Australia, and no-one thinks either party is cheating elections over here.
Mame wrote:
Same here in Canada. Never been an issue.

Like I said, the left always opposes measures to prevent cheating in elections.


hightor wrote:
I don't recall anyone claiming that Trump didn't win a majority in the Electoral College or that the election was "stolen".

I recall lots of claims that Mr. Trump colluded with Russia to steal the election, numerous illegal witch hunts based on those untrue claims, and a general refusal by Democrats to even work with Mr. Trump.


hightor wrote:
Trump's inability to govern was the result of his own deficiencies.

That is incorrect. Any problems that he had were the result of the Democrats' sabotage and dirty tricks.

And it was hardly an inability to govern. He did pretty well even with the Democrats sabotaging him.


hightor wrote:
Biden has managed to perform satisfactorily even in the face of partisan accusations of a stolen election and low popular approval.

Let's sabotage him like the Democrats did with Mr. Trump and see how he does then.

And Mr. Biden's supposed successes have been greatly exaggerated.


hightor wrote:
It's obvious that Trump just wasn't up to the job.

Nonsense. Any problems that Mr. Trump had were entirely the doing of the Democrats.

And like I said, he did pretty well anyway.


hightor wrote:
Expecting people to accept established facts doesn't reflect a "demented ideology" -- it's a basic feature of a functioning society.

The claim that Mr. Biden didn't cheat is not even remotely an established fact.

You cannot prove that he did not cheat. The lack of evidence doesn't mean anything. How do we know that Mr. Biden didn't eliminate all the witnesses to his cheating?


hightor wrote:
There's no reason not to accept that Biden won fairly

Sure there is. Payback for the left refusing to accept Mr. Trump.


hightor wrote:
even the news organization that accused him of electoral fraud admits that he won the election and is the legitimate president.

They don't speak for me.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2023 05:31 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

Same here in Canada. Never been an issue.


The only reason it is an issue here is because the Republicans lost. If they had won, the issue would almost never be raised.

0 Replies
 
 

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