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Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Sun 20 Feb, 2022 04:22 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

I'm confused about sanctions on Putin.

Biden has solemnly promised again and again to respond swiftly and fiercely, should Putin invade the Ukraine. And, since he's been adamant that he will not "have American soldiers fighting on the ground" there, and since he's said outright that he's talking about extreme financial sanctions, we can assume the swift and firce action will be to put a chokehold on the Russian economy.

Okay, fine.
But if the Russians invade, people will die. Maybe hundreds of people. Maybe more.

How are we supposed to view this as a some kind of strong defense of our NATO ally? We do nothing until he invades, THEN we choke his economy (which, just by the way will have the extra added effect of hurting innocent Russian civilians)? How is this a sensible response AFTER people die in battle?

Why wouldn't it make sense to choke Putin's economy BEFORE he invades - just as a response to all the months of threats, escalation and bullying? Wouldn't that limit his strength and capabilities?


I believe you are correct here. Biden inherited some fairly severe sanctions on Russia, many associated with the Nord Stream Pipeline project which would connect Russian Gas sources directly with Germany, thereby bypassing Belarus, Ukraine & Poland. They were effective and at that time the project construction was suspended.


The actions Biden took in the first days of his Presidency included the removal of those sanctions, and US agreement that the project should proceed ( a significant reversal of our earlier policy; the termination of the Canadian/US Keystone Pipeline Project ; and the termination of any new or renewed leases for Fracking & directional drilling for Gas and petroleum on Federal Lands (an action which ended many ongoing drilling & pumping operations and soon significantly reduced U.S. oil & gas production, thereby significantly limiting our capacity to sustain significant export of LNGLNG.

Had he not done those actions we may well have still seen the ongoing Russian actions against Ukraine, though our leverage today (with both Germany and Russia) would be much greater than it is now.

It' also likely that our abrupt and poorly planned, chaotic complete withdrawal from Afghanistan (and amazingly our large, well-defended base at Bagram) led both Putin and Chairman Xi of the CCP to believe the Biden Administration would be far less willing & able to defend our key national interests than the one that preceded it.

0 Replies
 
Thomastrokan33
 
  -2  
Sun 20 Feb, 2022 06:49 pm
@snood,
I make the comment, from the point of view of making ends meet. By making ends meet, I mean that I don't attach myself to right-wing meme psychology, and reject the nation-state hypothesis.

Afghanistan and the Ukraine serve as units, on a timeline, and the polar opposite nature of them in relation to Biden is a way of meeting the social hypothesis.
BillW
 
  3  
Sun 20 Feb, 2022 06:51 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

I'm confused about sanctions on Putin.

How are we supposed to view this as a some kind of strong defense of our NATO ally?

Just one thing I would like.to point out: Ukraine is not a member of NATO.
snood
 
  3  
Sun 20 Feb, 2022 08:24 pm
@BillW,
Oops. Thanks BW. I guess I had heard something about the US wanting Ukraine to be in NATO, and I got it mixed up.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Sun 20 Feb, 2022 09:46 pm
@snood,
Ukraine would like to be in NATO - they'd have a lot of soldiers from Poland, the Baltic NATO states right on their borders.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Sun 20 Feb, 2022 09:48 pm
@Thomastrokan33,
Quote:
I make the comment, from the point of view of making ends meet. By making ends meet, I mean that I don't attach myself to right-wing meme psychology, and reject the nation-state hypothesis.

Afghanistan and the Ukraine serve as units, on a timeline, and the polar opposite nature of them in relation to Biden is a way of meeting the social hypothesis.


You lost me at "nurfe flim begoblic nagle."
BillW
 
  3  
Sun 20 Feb, 2022 10:16 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Oops. Thanks BW. I guess I had heard something about the US wanting Ukraine to be in NATO, and I got it mixed up.

I figured that; I didn't want anyone to use against everything else you said. It was solid! I think you are also correct in that the US has wanted them to be a part of NATO. Except, of course for Trump who doesn't even want the USA to be a part of NATO..
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 06:01 am
Fox News Contributor Admits to Creating Fake Story About Canadian Woman Being ‘Trampled’ to Death
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 10:15 am
I’m having a hard time following the news about the impending invasion.

One more time:
If the invasion is as inevitable as many are saying, why is it not a good idea to cripple Putin’s economy BEFORE he invades?
Mame
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 10:24 am
@snood,
There may not be an invasion. Putin may just be posturing. He's not getting what he wants, which is guarantees from NATO and the US that they will never invite Ukraine into NATO, and other political things. NATO and the US shot down his demands as a non-starter. He's unhappy and is flexing his muscles.

Were the sanctions to be imposed now, Putin would have an excuse to invade Ukraine - either to annex it or install a puppet government.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 10:56 am
@Mame,
Next stage of escalation: Putin is considering recognizing the independence of the Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk. He sees "no prospects" for a pacification of eastern Ukraine, If treaties of friendship and military assistance are indeed concluded with the two "republics", Russia could station thousands of soldiers there, as it did in the regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia that broke away from Georgia.
Mame
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 11:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
President Putin insists Russia does not want war and is ready to negotiate, agreeing with France to intensify diplomatic efforts.

But if his demands for "security guarantees" are not met, he has threatened "appropriate retaliatory military-technical measures".


Why is Russia threatening Ukraine?

Russia has long resisted Ukraine's move towards European institutions, both Nato and the EU. Its core demand now is for the West to guarantee Ukraine will not join Nato, a defensive alliance of 30 countries.

Ukraine shares borders with both the EU and Russia. As a former Soviet republic it has deep social and cultural ties with Russia, and Russian is widely spoken there, but ever since Russia invaded in 2014 those relations have frayed.

When Ukrainians deposed their pro-Russian president in early 2014, Russia annexed Ukraine's southern Crimean peninsula and backed separatists who captured large swathes of eastern Ukraine. The rebels have fought the Ukrainian military ever since in a conflict that has claimed more than 14,000 lives.

Russia has complained that a 2015 Minsk peace deal for eastern Ukraine is far from being fulfilled. But it also accused of being part of the lingering conflict.

What does Putin want?

Russia has spoken of a "moment of truth" in recasting its relationship with Nato and has highlighted three demands.

First, it wants a legally binding pledge that Nato does not expand further: "For us it's absolutely mandatory to ensure Ukraine never, ever becomes a member of Nato," said Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov.

Mr Putin has complained Russia has "nowhere further to retreat to - do they think we'll just sit idly by?"

Last year President Putin wrote a long piece describing Russians and Ukrainians as "one nation". He has described the collapse of the Soviet Union in December 1991 as the "disintegration of historical Russia" and considers Ukraine's current leaders as running an "anti-Russian project".

President Putin has also argued that if Ukraine joined Nato, the alliance might try to recapture Crimea.

Its other core demands are that Nato does not deploy "strike weapons near Russia's borders", and that it removes forces and military infrastructure from member states that joined the alliance from 1997.

That means Central Europe, Eastern Europe and the Baltics. In reality Russia wants Nato to return to its pre-1997 borders.

The whole article is here:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56720589
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 11:39 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
In reality Russia wants Nato to return to its pre-1997 borders.
Might well be - Russia has claimed for decades that NATO's eastward expansion violates Western commitments made after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 11:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
If Putin decides to recognise the two territories based on their 2014 borders – as his interior minister has suggested he will do – that would likely lead to war.
Mame
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 11:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Explained here

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/21/world/ukraine-russia-putin-biden
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 11:55 am
@Mame,
Not a good outlook: Putin will soon address the nation, according to a Russian media report.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 12:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The Minsk peace agreement has failed. Russian President Vladimir Putin has recognized the breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine as independent. The latter had previously asked for "military assistance".
Mame
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 12:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes. How do Europeans feel? And what are they saying about Trudeau?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 12:18 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

what are they saying about Trudeau?

Who?

Most people don't know who he is.
Mame
 
  2  
Mon 21 Feb, 2022 12:22 pm
@izzythepush,
LMAO!! Is Europe as navel-gazing as the US? Surely they've heard of Canada Smile Maybe people just don't watch the news any more.
 

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