23
   

Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 03:32 am
@izzythepush,
I've asked you for a connection between me and your countryman Icke, but you've failed to deliver.

Pretty much like you always fail to deliver on any conspiracy you've proposed.

And just like George stated, pointing out Biden's failings does not automatically assume support for the R alternative.

Such a slow learner. But you are a pomgolian, so there's that.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 05:57 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:


Frank Apisa wrote:

But I tell you here and now...you WILL surrender more of your individual freedom...and it will be a positive thing for humanity and our nation. That is how civilization prospers. Asking for more individual freedom will always eventually result in chaos and anarchy.

A rather breathtaking admission.

Can you provide us all with a few historical examples of how increased government control of economies and social structures yielded significant increases in prosperity and the quality of "civilization". I don't think you can do so You can certainly find examples of increased order and refined structures of governance and control, however they all ended up in poverty, the suppression of human freedom and tyranny. No individual liberty.

Hitler, by the way headed the German "National SOCIALIST Party'. His regime controlled the allocation of economic resources, suppressed (cancelled. in contemporary vernacular) opposition of any kind and quickly degenerated to the extermination and enslaving of all who appeared to threaten the regime. Lots of good order and refined social planning however.


C'mon, George, surely you are intelligent enough to realize the National Socialist Party was NOT socialistic. It was capitalistic. The Nazi's used the "socialist" because they knew the people who were likely to back them were stupid enough to accept any lie they told them.

As for the proof you ask for...George, take a look at how civilization and society came into being. THE ONLY way for it to happen was for each individual to give up pieces of individual freedom...for the common good.

I thought you were a person above this kind of bullshit. I was wrong. I almost always acknowledge I am wrong when shown that I am...so allow me to acknowledge that bit of being wrong right here.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 06:00 am
@BillW,
BillW wrote:


Frank Apisa wrote:

blatham wrote:

Yes, it is. It is undeniable and this has been blatantly evident for a long while. What frightens me more than Trump though is that the GOP has concluded that having a sociopath as the leader of the party is not merely acceptable but the proper instrument to the achievement of their goals.


That list describes Trump to a T.

But that does not bother me anywhere near as much as knowing that intelligent people like George are willing to let Trump, or anyone like him, slide.

That is unfathomable to me.

I believe it is official now that the Republican Party is a Sociopathic Party!


It is. It certainly has fallen to the point where many of the luminaries of its past would not recognize it.

I do not rejoice in this. The Republican Party is needed to be an effective loyal opposition. They must get rid of the stink of Trump and his continuing supporters in order to do that.

I wish them luck in purging that disgusting element.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 06:01 am
@Region Philbis,
Region Philbis wrote:


been that way since all that Tea Party nonsense started...


It certainly started down that path with the Tea Party, Reg...but with their adoption of the party of Trump...they have fallen totally off the cliff.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 06:04 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Trump and Stalin are not at all equivalent.


Correct, they are not. Stalin was much smarter.

Hitler and Trump are not equivalent either. Hitler was smarter...and a MUCH better orator.


Quote:
No Gulag; no extermination of 4M Ukrainians or many more millions of Russian opponents, Latvians and and Lithuanians.


He never got the chance, because his attempt at a dictatorship never succeeded. (At least not yet.)

0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 06:22 am
@Frank Apisa,
I wonder if georgeob1 is intelligent enough to view the rise of Hitler in an historical, versus etymological, context?

Quote:

Many conservatives argue that Hitler was a leftist because he subjugated the individual to the state. However, this characterization is wrong, for several reasons.

The first error is in assuming that this is exclusively a liberal trait. Actually, U.S. conservatives take considerable pride in being patriotic Americans, and they deeply honor those who have sacrificed their lives for their country. The Marine Corps is a classic example: as every Marine knows, all sense of individuality is obliterated in the Marines Corps, and one is subject first, foremost and always to the group.

The second error is forgetting that all human beings subscribe to individualism and collectivism. If you believe that you are personally responsible for taking care of yourself, you are an individualist. If you freely belong and contribute to any group -- say, an employing business, church, club, family, nation, or cause -- then you are a collectivist as well. Neither of these traits makes a person inherently "liberal" or "conservative," and to claim that you are an "evil socialist" because you champion a particular group is not a serious argument.

Political scientists therefore do not label people "liberal" or "conservative" on the basis of their individualism or collectivism. Much more important is how they approach their individualism and collectivism. What groups does a person belong to? How is power distributed in the group? Does it practice one-person rule, minority rule, majority rule, or self-rule? Liberals believe in majority rule. Hitler practiced one-person rule. Thus, there is no comparison.

And on that score, conservatives might feel that they are off the hook, too, because they claim to prefer self-rule to one-person rule. But their actions say otherwise. Many of the institutions that conservatives favor are really quite dictatorial: the military, the church, the patriarchal family, the business firm.

Hitler himself downplayed all groups except for the state, which he raised to supreme significance in his writings. However, he did not identify the state as most people do, as a random collection of people in artificially drawn borders. Instead, he identified the German state as its racially pure stock of German or Aryan blood. In Mein Kampf, Hitler freely and interchangeably used the terms "Aryan race," "German culture" and "folkish state." To him they were synonyms, as the quotes below show. There were citizens inside Germany (like Jews) who were not part of Hitler's state, while there were Germans outside Germany (for example, in Austria) who were. But the main point is that Hitler's political philosophy was not really based on "statism" as we know it today. It was actually based on racism -- again, a subject that hits uncomfortably closer to home for conservatives, not liberals.

As Hitler himself wrote:

"The main plank in the Nationalist Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood."

"The state is a means to an end. Its end lies in the preservation and advancement of a community of physically and psychically homogenous creatures. This preservation itself comprises first of all existence as a race… Thus, the highest purpose of a folkish state is concern for the preservation of those original racial elements which bestow culture and create the beauty and dignity of a higher mankind. We, as Aryans, can conceive of the state only as the living organism of a nationality which… assures the preservation of this nationality…"

"The German Reich as a state must embrace all Germans and has the task, not only of assembling and preserving the most valuable stocks of basic racial elements in this people, but slowly and surely of raising them to a dominant position."

And it was in the service of this racial state that Hitler encourage individuals to sacrifice themselves:

"In [the Aryan], the instinct for self-preservation has reached its noblest form, since he willingly subordinates his own ego to the life of the community and, if the hour demands it, even sacrifices it."

"This state of mind, which subordinates the interests of the ego to the conservation of the community, is really the first premise for every truly human culture."

source
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 07:26 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:


I wonder if georgeob1 is intelligent enough to view the rise of Hitler in an historical, versus etymological, context?

Quote:

Many conservatives argue that Hitler was a leftist because he subjugated the individual to the state. However, this characterization is wrong, for several reasons.

The first error is in assuming that this is exclusively a liberal trait. Actually, U.S. conservatives take considerable pride in being patriotic Americans, and they deeply honor those who have sacrificed their lives for their country. The Marine Corps is a classic example: as every Marine knows, all sense of individuality is obliterated in the Marines Corps, and one is subject first, foremost and always to the group.

The second error is forgetting that all human beings subscribe to individualism and collectivism. If you believe that you are personally responsible for taking care of yourself, you are an individualist. If you freely belong and contribute to any group -- say, an employing business, church, club, family, nation, or cause -- then you are a collectivist as well. Neither of these traits makes a person inherently "liberal" or "conservative," and to claim that you are an "evil socialist" because you champion a particular group is not a serious argument.

Political scientists therefore do not label people "liberal" or "conservative" on the basis of their individualism or collectivism. Much more important is how they approach their individualism and collectivism. What groups does a person belong to? How is power distributed in the group? Does it practice one-person rule, minority rule, majority rule, or self-rule? Liberals believe in majority rule. Hitler practiced one-person rule. Thus, there is no comparison.

And on that score, conservatives might feel that they are off the hook, too, because they claim to prefer self-rule to one-person rule. But their actions say otherwise. Many of the institutions that conservatives favor are really quite dictatorial: the military, the church, the patriarchal family, the business firm.

Hitler himself downplayed all groups except for the state, which he raised to supreme significance in his writings. However, he did not identify the state as most people do, as a random collection of people in artificially drawn borders. Instead, he identified the German state as its racially pure stock of German or Aryan blood. In Mein Kampf, Hitler freely and interchangeably used the terms "Aryan race," "German culture" and "folkish state." To him they were synonyms, as the quotes below show. There were citizens inside Germany (like Jews) who were not part of Hitler's state, while there were Germans outside Germany (for example, in Austria) who were. But the main point is that Hitler's political philosophy was not really based on "statism" as we know it today. It was actually based on racism -- again, a subject that hits uncomfortably closer to home for conservatives, not liberals.

As Hitler himself wrote:

"The main plank in the Nationalist Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood."

"The state is a means to an end. Its end lies in the preservation and advancement of a community of physically and psychically homogenous creatures. This preservation itself comprises first of all existence as a race… Thus, the highest purpose of a folkish state is concern for the preservation of those original racial elements which bestow culture and create the beauty and dignity of a higher mankind. We, as Aryans, can conceive of the state only as the living organism of a nationality which… assures the preservation of this nationality…"

"The German Reich as a state must embrace all Germans and has the task, not only of assembling and preserving the most valuable stocks of basic racial elements in this people, but slowly and surely of raising them to a dominant position."

And it was in the service of this racial state that Hitler encourage individuals to sacrifice themselves:

"In [the Aryan], the instinct for self-preservation has reached its noblest form, since he willingly subordinates his own ego to the life of the community and, if the hour demands it, even sacrifices it."

"This state of mind, which subordinates the interests of the ego to the conservation of the community, is really the first premise for every truly human culture."

source


Thanks, Hightor.

I know George is intelligent...and that he honorably served his country. But somewhere, he has lost his way.

I used to think anyone continuing to support Trump in any way...was essentially being traitorous to America and its values. I now consider anyone not actively and forcefully opposing Trump and his cult...to be essentially traitorous to America and its values.

We have got to get past this disgusting point in our history.
blatham
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 09:41 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
But somewhere he has lost his way.

Or perhaps george has steadfastly stuck to his way. His tribal allegiances remain intact quite regardless of where his tribe is moving. This allegiance is fundamental to his personal identity, obviously, and I doubt that would change even if, for example. the pro-Trump contingent who rioted in the capital on Jan 6 had murdered Pelosi and Pence. I suspect he'd see this as a PR problem which might work damage on the goal of one party rule. And I'm certain he'd not protest or disagree if Pence had gone along with Jeffrey Clark's plan to subvert the election.

I recently read an interview with one of Clark's colleagues at the Claremont Institute who stated that their aim was to ensure that the US was governed by libertarian Republicans for one to two generations. Only this level of single party rule could bring America back to its founding principles, he said.

Can anyone see george honestly objecting to such a philosophy or plan of action?

izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 09:48 am
The Apprentice is being shown in Australia, but Trump won't be involved, they've made a very wise choice in going for Alan Sugar, the original.

Alan Sugar is very different from Trump, he didn't inherit a fortune,he made one, he's not a fascist, a sex offender or a ******* idiot like Trump.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 09:59 am
@blatham,
PS... Immediately following the announcement of Clark's subpoena to testify at the Jan 6 hearing, the Koch funded group where he was employed (New Civil Liberties Alliance) the group’s webpage listing Clark as Director of Strategy and Chief of Litigation was removed. A hiring announcement released in July was also removed.

We can also note that the biggest funder to Claremont is the Scaife Foundation.

If you're curious to understand what has happened to the GOP (and to george) then the history of these along with other ultra-right corporate billionaires and their origins in the John Birch world is essential. These are the entities that now dominate the right and the GOP and george. And george knows very little about them and their history. That would be a very inconvenient study for george to undertake.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 11:45 am
HCR wrote:
Yesterday, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) told his colleagues that on Monday evening he plans to bring up the Freedom to Vote Act and to try to get it through the Senate.

The Republicans are determined not to let Democrats level the electoral playing field. While Democrats in the House, where legislation can pass with a simple majority vote, have passed voting rights laws, Democrats in the Senate have to deal with the filibuster, which enables senators in the minority to block legislation unless the Democrats can muster 60 votes. Republicans are dead set against voting rights laws. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) has called voting reform “a solution in search of a problem,” driven by “coordinated lies about commonsense election laws that various states have passed.”

Are the 33 election laws 19 states have passed to restrict the vote really “commonsense election laws”?

Today, Meridith McGraw at Politico reported that America First Policy Institute (AFPI), a think tank of former Trump officials, says the priority for a second Trump administration would be new election laws. The president of AFPI, Brooke Rollins, who was in the Trump White House, said election reform would be top priority. Trump argues, without evidence, that the 2020 election was stolen. But, Rollins said, Trump might not have to push voting restrictions because the states have passed them already.

In 1776, the Founders declared “that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed….”

There have always been fights over who should have a say in our society, and until 1870, most voters in the United States were white men. After the Civil War, in 1870, the Republicans then in charge of Congress expanded the pool of voters to enfranchise Black men attacked by white gangs and undermined by white legislators.

In that year, the Fifteenth Amendment to the Constitution declared that “the right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.” That amendment also gave Congress power to enforce that amendment.

Almost immediately, white southerners determined to prevent their Black neighbors from affecting society through their votes began to keep Black Americans from the polls. By the early 1960s, fewer than 5% of eligible Black voters were registered in Mississippi, and when organizers tried to help them enforce their right to vote, white gangs and government officials harassed them, occasionally to the point of murder.

Appalled at the violence playing out on the streets and then again on the evening news, lawmakers in 1965 passed the Voting Rights Act. It required that states with a history of discrimination get preapproval from the Department of Justice to change state election laws. The measure passed on a bipartisan basis.

But the impulse to expand voting rights in America would face a backlash in 1986, when Reagan Republicans realized they were in danger of losing control of the government and thus losing the 1986 tax cuts. Republicans began to talk of cutting down black voting under a “ballot integrity” initiative in 1986, and new voter restrictions in Florida paid off in the 2000 election, when Republican George W. Bush won by a handful of votes there after many more votes had been suppressed.

When Democrats tried to shore up voting with an expansion of voter registration at certain state offices in 1993, with the so-called Motor Voter Law, Republicans exploded. A New York Times writer said Republicans saw the measures “as special efforts to enroll core Democratic constituencies in welfare and jobless-benefits offices.” As Democrats began to focus on expanding voting rights, Republicans focused on restricting the vote.

By 1994, losing Republican candidates were charging that Democrats won elections with “voter fraud.” In 1996, House and Senate Republicans each launched yearlong investigations into what they insisted were problematic elections, helping to convince Americans that voter fraud was a serious issue and that Democrats were winning elections thanks to illegal, usually immigrant, voters.

When voters nonetheless reelected Democratic president Bill Clinton in 1996, Republicans did their best to undermine his presidency—and eventually impeached him—but the elevation of biracial Democrat Barack Obama to the White House in 2008 prompted a new level of attacks on the electoral system. The Supreme Court in the 2010 Citizens United decision permitted a flood of corporate money to flow into the electoral system, and then, in the 2013 Shelby v. Holder decision, it gutted the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

With Justice Department preclearance out of the way, states promptly began to pass discriminatory election laws. In 2021, in Brnovich v. Democratic National Committee, the Supreme Court said such laws were not prohibited, thus greenlighting the new election laws passed by Republican-dominated states after voters choose Democrat Joe Biden in 2020.

And so, here we are. Republicans are trying to regain control of the government by making sure their opponents can’t vote, while Democrats are trying to level a badly tilted playing field. If the Democrats do not succeed in passing a voting rights law, we can expect America to become a one-party state that, at best, will look much like the American South did between 1876 and 1964.

Our nation will no longer be a democracy.

There are currently three voting measures before Congress. The For the People Act is a sweeping measure that cuts back on voter suppression, ends partisan gerrymandering, curbs dark money in politics, and combats corruption. The House of Representatives passed this measure in early March 2021 and sent it to the Senate, where Republicans blocked it using a filibuster.

The John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act would restore the protections of the 1965 Voting Rights Act that the Supreme Court gutted in the 2013 Shelby County v. Holder decision. The House of Representatives passed this measure in late August 2021 and sent it to the Senate, where it sits under threat of a filibuster.

In the Senate, Joe Manchin (D-WV) expressed misgivings about the voting measures and vowed to hammer out a voting rights bill that could attract the votes of ten Republicans and thus break a filibuster. He and a number of Democratic colleagues announced the Freedom to Vote Act in mid-September 2021. If there are ten Republicans to support the measure, we have not yet seen them.

The Senate will vote on the Freedom to Vote Act on Wednesday.

substack
blatham
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 12:57 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Republicans are trying to regain control of the government by making sure their opponents can’t vote, while Democrats are trying to level a badly tilted playing field. If the Democrats do not succeed in passing a voting rights law, we can expect America to become a one-party state that, at best, will look much like the American South did between 1876 and 1964.

Our nation will no longer be a democracy.

Yes. Which, of course, is why the party is fully on board with the Trump lies about stolen elections.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 02:44 pm
A few pages back on this thread I posted the observation that the conjunction of a growing number of issues attendant to effective governance in matters ranging from National Security; to the effects of government actions & policies on our economy; management of responses to the COVID epidemic; and others were causing a fast-growing drop in public confidence in the current Biden political administration and its now stalled legislative program.

Curiously the responses from the long-term inhabitants of this and predecessor threads involve everything but the rather obvious and continuing phenomenon I identified. They started with a chorus of now very familiar anti-Trump themes ( Never mind the facts that, he is no longer the President, and this thread follows a previous one dedicated to his Administration) , and moved on to efforts to turn the conversation to pedantic discussions of various (largely arbitrary) academic categorizations of issues ranging from psychology to the political & economic movements that have dominated recent modern history. The definition of a sociopath; the manner in which recent totalitarian, murderous and tyrannical political systems are categorized ( are they labelled "socialistic", or "fascist" or merely authoritarian, totalitarian and repressive, etc.).

All this appears to me to simply be efforts on the part of participants here to turn the conversation away from matters they find uncomfortable, and incompatible with their personal prejudgments of the attendant political issues. This certainly is not unusual behavior among human beings, however we should all recognize it for what it really is.

Many people exhibit, to widely varying of degrees, what are called sociopathic behaviors than I believe are recognized or acknowledged here. Indeed the persistent belief in a particular viewpoint on politics (or almost anything), coupled with a pattern of assigning dark, unrelated motives (or tribal associations) to anyone who merely disagrees could be termed as behaving in a sociopathic way. A more compact definition of a sociopath (and one which I prefer) is a person who can emphasize only with him or herself. In any event not every sociopath is a Jeffery Dahmer, and we can (and should) judge people only sparingly and then based on what they actually do. Not everyone who has something in common with someone else is necessarily like them in all things, as Blatham so deceptively suggests.

Tyrannical, oppressive, totalitarian governments that attempt to control most aspects of life, and which place more value on adherence to a fixed ideology than on the lives of their citizens & subjects have been the source of great human misery and suffering over the past 150 years (and beyond). Whether they were termed socialist or fascist is a mostly meaningless distinction. Those labels have more to do with the ideologies through which such regimes seized power than their subsequent behavior.

The founders of this country recognized these principles and made great efforts to establish and codify a preference for local government control of most issues and clearly specified the limited, enumerated e powers of the central government, coupled with clear statements of enumerated human rights that government cannot limit or abrogate. The liberty and individual initiative that resulted has yielded an unusually strong long-term economic growth and the development of a society that has demonstrated an unmatched ability to assimilate immigrants from disparate regions and cultures and to evolve a cosmopolitan culture that has become a major influence on the rest of the world.

Recent efforts to undermine all that with "new" approaches for the creation of an assumed "perfect" society are disturbingly reminiscent of the various rationalizations and illusions that were used in the revolutionary efforts to create the worst totalitarian and now failed societies in the modern world. Some were called communist or socialist and others fascist (a term of convenience invented by the petty tyrant of Italy Mussolini). The result was the same; poverty, loss of freedom, decay and failure.

Happily the Biden Administration appears to be failing, based on its own ideas; the emerging contradictions the real world imposes on their application; and the many follies of its principal leaders.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 03:26 pm
For those of you who knew her, my ex-wife Jane passed away about 30 minutes ago. She had a number of health issues on top of which a recent viral infection (not covid) was the cause. She and I had remained in touch and close as had her daughters and I. I'm very sad.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 03:45 pm
@blatham,
That's very sad news Bernie, I send condolences from my family to yours.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 03:49 pm
@blatham,

so sorry for your loss....
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  4  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 03:51 pm
@blatham,
As am I. she was an unusual and bright light. My sincere condolences, Bernie.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 04:23 pm
@blatham,
I'm very sorry to hear this.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 04:34 pm
@blatham,
I'm sorry.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2021 04:44 pm
I am so sorry.

I recall meeting her. I am pretty sure littlek was there.

Hugs to you.
0 Replies
 
 

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