goodfielder wrote:glitterbag wrote:msolga wrote:goodfielder wrote:The left's argument is with the government, not with those who have to do the killing and dying.
Yes, it always is.
Can somebody help me here, which group is it that believes we need less government?????
Not "less" or "more" just better. My point was that this stuff about not supporting the troops is obfuscation for not supporting the government's policy implicitly and without question.
Sorry goodfielder if you thought I was being critical. I agree with your statements and you expressed yourself much better than I did. I agree that the support the troops red herring is hot air and also agree that what everyone should want is better government.
bush, cheney, rove, libby, wolwowitz, gingrich, delay, chambliss, hastert, lott, racicot, quayle, nickels, card, bolton, limbaugh, (m)reagan and even ted nugent all showed how much they supported the troops by declining to join them in vietnam.
From the Sunday Portland Oregonian, USA:
"Other than telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote,
invest, educate our children--- and now, die--- I think the
Republicans have done a fine job of getting government out of our personal lives."...................................................
The voice of protest, of warning, of appeal is never more needed than when the clamor of fife and drum, echoed by the press and too often by the pulpit, is bidding all men fall in and keep step and obey in silence the tyrannous word of command. Then, more than ever, it is the duty of the good citizen not to be silent: Charles Eliot Norton
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"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."..........Abraham Lincoln
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."......- 'Mark Twain'
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"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President."............ Theodore Roosevelt
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"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."... Thomas Jefferson
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from the government.
- Thomas Paine
"A President is impeachable if he attempts to subvert the Constitution".
....... James Madison
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There is nothing so powerful as truth, and often nothing so strange." : Daniel Webster
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To save your world you asked this man to die; Would this man, could he see you now, ask why?.............."[/size]Epitaph for an Unknown Soldier"
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"If by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a 'Liberal.'" -- John F. Kennedy
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Some of my favourite quotes..... which should cover most of the idiotic comments that I have read here that were posted by the blinded by false patriotism right wingers.
Thanks for posting those, magginkat. Some good stuff there.
Yeah Glitterbag, ......
I know they will go over the heads of the worst of the lot!
www.ProudLiberalBitch.com
With the possible exception of my 9th grade biology teacher, George W. Bush is the only human capable of causing bile to rise in my throat by his mere appearance.
goodfielder wrote:This is quite bizarre, if you don't mind me saying so. If you do, sorry, I'm going to say it anyway.
What does it all mean? For mine it has a bit of the "support your local law enforcement" about it. That too is a meaningless propaganda statement. I always feel like asking "what if I don't?" when I see that. Is something bad going to happen to me?
This supporting the troops thing is babble. No doubt it has its origins in the Vietnam War and the disgraceful way in which some returning servicepeople were treated. But here the idea that the left doesn't support the troops is being floated as a form of treason. What a load of cobblers. That assumes that the left will pick and choose whether or not to "support the troops" (again whatever that means) depending on whether or not they support the particular campaign.
Let's assume that the left says that the invasion of Afghanistan was a good thing. So the left says yep, good, go after the bastards who perpetrated 9/11. Is there an issue of "supporting the troops" here? Does it come up at all?
Now we know the left is opposed to the invasion and occupation of Iraq. So they attack the administration for what they consider is a strategic mistake. Is there an issue of "not supporting the troops" here?
In the Afghanistan theatre the left says, well the troops have to go in, they will be put in harm's way but such is the nature of their duty. The military after all is a policy tool of government.
In the Iraq theatre the left says, the government should have never sent the troops in (forget the myriad excuses for them going there in the first place, we'll now the truth in a few years). The left didn't want the troops put in harm's way in Iraq. How can that be interpreted as "not supporting the troops"?
The left's argument is with the government, not with those who have to do the killing and dying.
This is a specious, transparent attempt at propaganda which any clear-thinking person can identify immediately.
Lol - yes.
I always think, when I see this meaningless "do you support the troops?" bilge - "Why? Can't they stand up by themselves?" or "They're sending people with hernias to WAR?"
Quote:Propaganda: The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
It is propaganda, but of a particularly nasty sort.
One could propagandize for charity in community affairs or for cooperative effort in international affairs or for transparency in government. Given an organized effort to propagate agreement with such a cause or doctrine would match the definition above.
What makes this doctrine in question ("support the troops or be a traitor to them and to America") so despicable is its authoritarian and totalitarian coloration, and more particularly so as it seeks to quell dissent on militarism.
Why does The Right hate America?
(Did you get a new uniform tunic, Mr. Mountie? You're looking particularly natty today . . . )
gustavratzenhofer wrote:With the possible exception of my 9th grade biology teacher, George W. Bush is the only human capable of causing bile to rise in my throat by his mere appearance.
Oh boy can I ever agree with that one. The very sound of his sissy, prissy, smirking, pansy-arse voice is enough to gag a maggot.
And watch the wannbe cowboy as he walks.... I always say that he walks like a penguin with a diaper rash.
And finally watch the bozo when he appears on stage with another person. The way this moron acts is enough to embarrass this country for years to come.
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"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Setanta wrote:Why does The Right hate America?
dunno, set. but some of 'em sure are in a hurry to dismantle what it took two and a quarter centuries to build.
Magginkat wrote:gustavratzenhofer wrote:With the possible exception of my 9th grade biology teacher, George W. Bush is the only human capable of causing bile to rise in my throat by his mere appearance.
Oh boy can I ever agree with that one. The very sound of his sissy, prissy, smirking, pansy-arse voice is enough to gag a maggot.
And watch the wannbe cowboy as he walks.... I always say that he walks like a penguin with a diaper rash.
And finally watch the bozo when he appears on stage with another person. The way this moron acts is enough to embarrass this country for years to come.
................................................................
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Doesn't say much about Gore or Kerry, does it? He kicked both their a$$es...
I saw a bumper sticker the other day that made me smile. It said "I am a Member of the Christian Left".
McG, so you agree with Mencken?????? The grand and glorious day a moron will adorn the White House has arrived???? Odd, I wouldn't have taken you for a Mencken fan. As I live and breathe!
Magginkat wrote:Lash wrote:[
If that is true, propping one's internet argument up on the body and service of others is gross.
Care to explain that comment genius? Or do you have any idea what you are talking about?
You're so brilliant, I'm sure you can figure it out. I'm timing you.
......GO!
Lash wrote:Magginkat wrote:Lash wrote:[
If that is true, propping one's internet argument up on the body and service of others is gross.
Care to explain that comment genius? Or do you have any idea what you are talking about?
You're so brilliant, I'm sure you can figure it out. I'm timing you.
......GO!
This is silly. Are you claiming to be anti-military or pro-military. Or are you only for the ...... wait, this is starting to make my head hurt. Let me see if I get this right. You are happy we have troops in Iraq but when the mother of a wounded soldier shares some of her views, you feel she is propping up 'an internet argument' on the bodies of others and thereby has behaved in a gross way. You are saying this to a former Air Force person and widow of a Vietnam vet, whose son just returned from Iraq. I think I see.....yes indeed.....people who have served in the Armed Forces or have suffered the loss of a loved one during wartime or have children in harms way should keep their mouth's shut. Where do they get off expressing an opinion? It just confuses the rest of us. I think I am getting a better idea now exactly what it means to support the troops. I think I will run outside and slap another yellow magnet on my neighbor's SUV.
mcg wrote : " Doesn't say much about Gore or Kerry, does it? He kicked both their a$$es...".
so mencken's prophecy has been fullfilled, has it ? hbg
hamburger wrote:mcg wrote : " Doesn't say much about Gore or Kerry, does it? He kicked both their a$$es...".
so mencken's prophecy has been fullfilled, has it ? hbg
Indeed it has. Who knew the grand old man at the Algonquian Table could predict the future?
glitterbag wrote:Lash wrote:Magginkat wrote:Lash wrote:[
If that is true, propping one's internet argument up on the body and service of others is gross.
Care to explain that comment genius? Or do you have any idea what you are talking about?
You're so brilliant, I'm sure you can figure it out. I'm timing you.
......GO!
This is silly. Are you claiming to be anti-military or pro-military. Or are you only for the ...... wait, this is starting to make my head hurt. Let me see if I get this right. You are happy we have troops in Iraq but when the mother of a wounded soldier shares some of her views, you feel she is propping up 'an internet argument' on the bodies of others and thereby has behaved in a gross way. You are saying this to a former Air Force person and widow of a Vietnam vet, whose son just returned from Iraq. I think I see.....yes indeed.....people who have served in the Armed Forces or have suffered the loss of a loved one during wartime or have children in harms way should keep their mouth's shut. Where do they get off expressing an opinion? It just confuses the rest of us. I think I am getting a better idea now exactly what it means to support the troops. I think I will run outside and slap another yellow magnet on my neighbor's SUV.
Lash only agrees with what Lash writes.
