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Politics and Personal Relationships

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2020 07:44 am
@Frank Apisa,
They’re also really intelligent. I saw a documentary about weasels and there was a honey badger, (actually a type of weasel,) using tools to get at a food source. That puts them in the same league as primates and crows.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2020 07:45 am
There is an interesting question here for the liberals in the crowd... What would you do if Biden and Trump switched positions on abortion?

If Trump had all the same views... accept that he supported a woman's right to choose, and Biden was strongly pro-life.

Who would you vote for then? It is convenient that all of your political views match up with the candidates. But there is no reason that someone couldn't support BLM and be pro-life (these are two completely different issues).

If someone supported a pro-choice Trump because they believed a woman's right to choose was that important no matter what the other issues were... I don't think that would make them a racist.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2020 08:00 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

There is an interesting question here for the liberals in the crowd... What would you do if Biden and Trump switched positions on abortion?

If Trump had all the same views... accept that he supported a woman's right to choose, and Biden was strongly pro-life.

Who would you vote for then? It is convenient that all of your political views match up with the candidates. But there is no reason that someone couldn't support BLM and be pro-life (these are two completely different issues).

If someone supported a pro-choice Trump because they believed a woman's right to choose was that important no matter what the other issues were... I don't think that would make them a racist.



I do not identify as a liberal, but I want to comment.

There are no circumstances where I would vote for Trump...with the possible exception of someone holding a gun to my head.

I would be terribly disappointed if Joe Biden were anti-choice on the question of abortion rights, but I would vote for him anyway. The choice is between Biden and Trump...and Biden will ALWAYS be my choice in that scenario.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2020 08:02 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

They’re also really intelligent. I saw a documentary about weasels and there was a honey badger, (actually a type of weasel,) using tools to get at a food source. That puts them in the same league as primates and crows.


I've actually seen pictures of people with them...having them as pets!

That would scare me.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2020 08:07 am
@Frank Apisa,
That last post was funny and actually made me laugh. You might need to up the nastiness if you want to get that “hand me my ass” effect.

Ok Frank. I’m done with this. I’m going to leave you to it. I really would’ve liked to get an answer about whether your buddies are fond of the confederate flag and n*gger jokes but so it goes.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2020 08:08 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

I can understand Snood's position. I had a political conversation with my brother a couple of weeks ago. He is extremely religious in the Southern tradition. He's telling me about his black friends and how he strongly supports equality. But he is voting for Trump (with absolutely no reservations). I point out that Trump is a flaming racist who is doing more damage to minority communities in a year than he could ever repair in a lifetime and the next thing I know, he is standing, yelling about unborn babies and repeating right wing talking points about Planned Parenthood. The reality is that when his son got arrested for throwing eggs off an interstate bypass, he got off with a warning. When his sons get stopped by the police, he is very comfortable that they will walk away from the encounter alive, likely even without a ticket. It's that level of privilege that allows you to say civil rights are important but I'm voting for a tax cut this year or judges or immigration reform or for the guy I liked on TV. It's a great privilege to vote with no greater concern than to stick it to the other side
when others are voting in the hope their children will not get shot by police.


Yes! Thank you.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2020 08:37 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
There is an interesting question here for the liberals in the crowd... What would you do if Biden and Trump switched positions on abortion?

Biden, as a Catholic, is already "pro-life". People can be both pro-life and pro-choice, they just can't be anti-abortion and pro-choice. As Biden has explained, his views are shaped by his religion and he doesn't feel that he should impose his religious beliefs on others.

But no, I wouldn't switch to being a Trump supporter in the hypothetical case you've brought up. I'm not a single issue voter.
0 Replies
 
justaguy2
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2020 08:56 am
snood, I live in Australia, but out of respect for my "online privacy" (if there really is such a thing that is) I won't say which particular state I'm in (and not that I live in it by choice either). Australia is still a part of the British Monarchy, therefore the queen of england is our head of state. Therefore, we don't have a "president" like the US, we have a governor-general instead, and the Prime Minister is the elected head of the federal government here. While each state here has it's own state governor, with the respective state "premier" being the elected head of a state government here. It's the Prime Minister and the state premier's that make "executive decisions", while the governor-general and the state governor's are in practice just figure head's - although the governor-general and the state governor's do have the power to dismiss the federal and their respective state government respectively (the PM can also fire the governor-general and a state premier can fire their respective state governor AFAIU it).

Here, what you would call a "district attorney" in the US is not a politician, and aren't "elected" by public vote, we also don't have little redneck police and sheriff departments dotted all over the place like you do in the US. Local government here has nothing to do with law enforcement, education, health (except doing health inspections on local businesses), or anything else you couldn't call "very minor or basic". They are all responsibilities of the respective state government of the particular state you are in. So for example, if I was in Sydney and I called our version of your 911 (being 000 here) and I asked for police, it would be the New South Wales police force that would respond, because Sydney is in the state of New South Wales. If I was in Melbourne instead, it would be the Victorian state police force that would respond, because Melbourne is in the state of Victoria. The federal government also has their own agencies as well, like the AFP (the federal police), but they do not have the power to dictate to the states, and cannot tell the states what to do. The most they can do is try and bribe the states with federal funding. Because it's called the "constitution", and as the feds have found out with covid, it's a lesson in federation.

Anyhow, I have a friend in the US of A whom I actually met at another forum by simply just responding to one of their threads, not expecting them to befriend me. But it turned out that we have at least a few common interests, so, and to cut a long story short, I gave him my email address once I knew I could trust him, and knew he wasn't a bot or whatever else. I only know what he looks like because he has a picture of what I assume is his face in his profile picture/avatar. I honestly have no idea which political party he supports, if any, lat alone if he supports trump or biden. I have no interest either way in "which side he is on", and I don't care. But I DO know that he is a good guy, I've never seen him post or write anything even remotely racist, hateful, hypocritical, or anything similar, not even once. The only thing that matters to me is that he has a good character, and I'm not talking about "being perfect" (who is? not me, not anyone I've ever met, good, bad or ugly), I'm talking about being a decent human being. And as far as I'm concerned, I've not seen anything that doubts that. The same as I've never seen you or Frank ever post anything that would make me think either of you are racist in any way. I'd love to be able to met my American friend in person, and hopefully one day I'll get the chance. I'll be responding to an email he sent to me yesterday in response to my last email to him, so for now, that will have to do until hopefully one day we can catch up in person.

As far as US police shootings are concerned; one man isn't going to be able to fix that, be that trump, be that biden. These are far deeper societal issues that are ultimately causing that, and it's been happening for years, but doesn't seem to happen in most other country's. So as I've said before in other threads here, just electing some other clown isn't going to change much by itself. The amount of guns and gun culture in the USA are also a part of the problem, the same as police tactics and training are another part of the problem. People having to resort to crime who can't get proper employment (because they have a criminal record for example) and poverty are also a part of the problem. Your country needs to fix ALL of that to solve the problem of police shootings. In Australia, all police officers are armed with firearms, but they rarely ever shoot anyone, because most civilians aren't armed to the teeth with guns here, unlike the USA. Our gun culture and culture in general isn't anywhere near as toxic as it is in the US, that's the difference. It doesn't mean there aren't racist police officers, it doesn't mean that the non-white population doesn't get put in jail disproportionately compared to the white population here. The Aboriginal population is around 2% - 3% of Australia's total population, and yet, something like 40% of the prison population is Aboriginal. Their life expectancy is far lower than the white population's.
engineer
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2020 10:20 am
@justaguy2,
justaguy2 wrote:

As far as US police shootings are concerned; one man isn't going to be able to fix that, be that trump, be that biden. These are far deeper societal issues that are ultimately causing that, and it's been happening for years, but doesn't seem to happen in most other country's. So as I've said before in other threads here, just electing some other clown isn't going to change much by itself.

When that one man is the President, head of the federal executive branch it can change a lot. The previous administration started investigations of police departments across the country and got consent decrees to make changes. The current administration came into office and immediately stopped those investigations and waived the decrees. The current administration has stopped investigations into housing discrimination started before he came into office and has pardoned a law enforcement official infamous for his persecution of minorities. It's hard to say one man doesn't matter when he has already shown how much he does. Again, it is a tremendous privilege to say "yes, that's terrible but it really doesn't impact me much so I'm going to vote for the guy I'd like to have a beer with." I can see how someone who lives with those burdens daily, experiences the harm on a routine basis, would be angry at the nonchalance of the general public.
justaguy2
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2020 07:26 am
@engineer,
You've admitted that the same problems existed well before trump by your own post above. You've also admitted in the 8 years of the previous administration the most they were able to do is launch "investigations". Well, like Australia, your country has something called a "constitution", and like Australia, that same document gives the states certain powers and rights that no federal government can deny the states. The only way for the feds to overrule a state government is if, it's a power granted to the federal government by that same document, or the feds are able to prove in court that the respective state has acted "unconstitutionally", and the court agrees with the feds.

But let's go back to the first point: all of the current problems did not start with trump. One man cannot change everything all by themselves, the same as just electing yet another clown will not change much, if anything in itself. Because if that were true, then your country wouldn't have the problems it has, anymore than my country would have the problems it has. My country has had Royal Commission after Royal Commission, including into "black deaths in police custody", there has been recommendation, after recommendation made, but yet, not much has changed. Why? Because unless it's followed by meaningful action, then it's rather pointless, and therefore, NOTHING CHANGES.

The bottom line is: until everybody has the same level of access to things like education, employment, health services, housing, just to name a few, then the same problems will continue to crop up. And government policy alone isn't going to be enough, it starts at a societal level, police officers don't come from outer space, they come from society, the same as employers do, the same as anyone else does. In other words: until you Americans actually start believing in real equality, then there isn't much chance of the USA ever having a equal society. Ever wondered why the nordic countries don't tend to have high crime rates, race riots, etc? Well, it's because they have far more equal societies where you don't need to be rich to get a decent education, decent housing, decent health care, etc, etc... that's why. And how is that all paid for? Through people paying their fair share of tax, that's right, taxation, that's how.

So no, just electing another clown won't change much at all, as much as you may be kidding yourselves otherwise.

PS: I would have thought that as an engineer you would actually be interested in the solution, rather than just treating the symptoms. I guess I was wrong in thinking that about you. But hey, keep kidding yourself, no skin off my nose...
0 Replies
 
 

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