Politics and Personal Relationships

@Frank Apisa,

Frank, I have to admit it...

I’m sort of flattered that you’ve put this much time into “handing me my ass” or whatever the absolute f*ck you think you’re doing. I got up, went to work, came home and looked online to find that you posted pictures of Snoopy and cute dogs interspersed with all the nastiness your koolaid pumping heart could muster.

And all because I dared - had the audacity and temerity- to call you a hypocrite.

I am impressed. You have put a significant amount of thought and creativity into proving your point. And you have definitely convinced me, and I dare say anyone who has stopped by to read the posts.

You are an old man with a huge, brittle ego who will fight like a little bitchy schoolgirl when your feelings get hurt. And you are one gargantuan asshole.

I still can’t help being curious though. Do your Trump loving friends fly confederate flags and tell n*gger or Jew jokes? Do you laugh along or try to fake outrage? It’s fascinating that you think your friendship with people who support a racist, science hating, misogynist POS should be something sacrosanct.

2 Replies

@snood,

This is the flaw in this whole narrative. Someone can be a Trump supporter who hates the Confederate flag. You can also be a Confederate flag waving racist who hates Trump. And yet you have somehow conflated the two.

The "us versus them" mentality being heard from both sides is not helpful to us a country.

The extremists on the left are saying that every Trump supporter is a fascist. The fact that each person is a different person with different ideas and different beliefs doesn't matter.

The extremists on the right are saying that every BLM supporter supports violence and looting.

What's wrong with just accepting people for who they are, and listening to their actual opinions on each issue rather than putting everyone into an ideological box.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

I think that every fascistii are Trump supporters. You seem to want to add some analyses and common sense. I dont think such a thing exists in this time and sphere.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Someone can be a Trump supporter who hates the Confederate flag

Statistically?? I doubt your belief. The two Djoining states to Pa .s south re Delaware and maryland, both Union states an both were slave states ho remaind in the Unions and wre the reason why the Emancipation Proclamation was written as it was. Trump and Confederate flags seem to go han in hand. One merely needs to drive around the countrysides of Cecil, Harford counties in Md and Kent and Sussex in Del.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I think that every fascistii are Trump supporters. You seem to want to add some analyses and common sense. I dont think such a thing exists in this time and sphere.

Define fascist. There are quite a few anti-Trump people who are eager to stifle free speech and who support the use of violence for political ends.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

... because I am not willing to give up my friendships with these folk.

I think, at 84, age affords your view point that you don't "have" to make that choice. And I'm not saying you have to or even should.

As I've followed both you and Snood, both very articulate and even handed, this back and forth going on between you two is disconcerting. I think neither one of you can argue the perspective of the other.

I have to admit I've dropped more friends since they've supported Trump than they've dumped me. That's because I can't understand how each one of them have pulled out a singular value that Trump has touched on, but cannot take the whole "Trumpism" as THE singular value.

I have to ask both of you, what's your "end game" here?

3 Replies

@neptuneblue,

Thanks for your thoughtful input, Neptune.

And it’s a fair question you ask. One that I can easily imagine myself asking if I found two people involved in an ugly argument.

I think my ends are simpler than Franks. One of my ends is to never, not in this case or in any future instance ever until I die, stand for anyone apologizing for this horrible man Trump, and all he represents. I won’t let anyone tell me a lie is the truth. I won’t let anyone tell me there are “very fine people” who support this man, or act like it is okay to live double lives mollifying our cultish “friends” but condemning members of the same cult - just because they’re strangers.

My other end is not to take the kind of disrespect dished out online that I would not take in person. I will defend my own honor, so to speak. If you really believe I would allow anyone in this forum to say something like “why don’t you just go beat your meat?” while standing in front of me, then you are under a big misperception.

Frank’s ends are a little more involved, from what I can see. He wants to establish some kind of dominion in this conflict. He wants to have a confrontation wherein he can say any guttural, personal thing in his bowels, but he will take no criticism. He wants to “put me in my place”. He wants to appear unaffected by anything said while simultaneously overreacting to any challenge with juvenile attempts at revenge. He needs to have the last word. He’s said it outright -“I will have the last word in this instance”. But he always has to.

I might let him, just because life’s too short. But not because he’s right, or respectable. But just because **** him.

I probably will, because of the two of us I am the one able to. I’d rather discuss the issue I raised on this thread without the rancor. But I guess we’ll see what happens.

0 Replies

The Ginsburg-Scalia Act Was Not a Farce

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/09/21/opinion/21seniorSub/merlin_177311922_6d26d8bd-da31-4b2d-b005-e9055ad55d39-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

There is a lot for us to learn, not just from their friendship, but from their intellectual combat.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

I have to admit I've dropped more friends since they've supported Trump than they've dumped me.

Not an issue over her, I don’t know any Trump supporters, even my Brexiteer dad, who’s as conservative as it goes, thinks he’s despicable.

The only supporters of Trump over here are the far right.

Brexit, now that’s another matter, and Johnson is making a pig’s ear of it because he’s a bumbling idiot.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

The only supporters of Trump over here are the far right.

Have you noticed any QAnon conspiracy references in the press or on the broadcast media?

1 Reply

@hightor,

I can respect that relationship as a rare exception to the norm.

Their positions necessitated a couple of things.
They had to do combat, and they had to resolve it amicably.

If all relationships between people of completely different beliefs and values came with the requirement that they had to argue, that they had to argue with intellect and fact, and that they had to resolve those arguments amicably, we’d live in a different world.

In the world we do live in, people exert effort not to confront uncomfortable differences - to keep the “peace”. In the world we do live in, people practice groupthink and run in herds and go with the flow. They do not confront each other daily on the ugly issues of the day - because it’s not their job.

Does this make any sense to you, hightor?

1 Reply

@snood,

snood wrote:

Frank, I have to admit it...

I’m sort of flattered that you’ve put this much time into “handing me my ass” or whatever the absolute f*ck you think you’re doing. I got up, went to work, came home and looked online to find that you posted pictures of Snoopy and cute dogs interspersed with all the nastiness your koolaid pumping heart could muster.

And all because I dared - had the audacity and temerity- to call you a hypocrite.

I am impressed. You have put a significant amount of thought and creativity into proving your point. And you have definitely convinced me, and I dare say anyone who has stopped by to read the posts.

You are an old man with a huge, brittle ego who will fight like a little bitchy schoolgirl when your feelings get hurt. And you are one gargantuan asshole.

I still can’t help being curious though. Do your Trump loving friends fly confederate flags and tell n*gger or Jew jokes? Do you laugh along or try to fake outrage? It’s fascinating that you think your friendship with people who support a racist, science hating, misogynist POS should be something sacrosanct.

I am equally flattered by all the time, effort, and vitriol you are putting into this interaction with me. I am enjoying the hell out of it...and you seem to be enjoying it also. ANOTHER GREAT WIN/WIN situation for us, my good friend.

You are such a chump, Snood...and so given to hate, anger, and contempt. But I will not let anyone suggest we should end our friendship because of it.

I love ya.

Here's are a few more comfort animals. I hope you calm down for a while:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRPlXYtGfQF332eJ3bCgzitBXklj7FStWnY3w&usqp=CAU

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTW8CvIxH9L-02GzqUW3BCJX6w6eE_eNpCxXQ&usqp=CAU

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQbvZxA5JCQVSAue8FPpmVNebjwjtmSJfBJDw&usqp=CAU

1 Reply

@hightor,

No, that nonsense doesn’t fly hear at all. The only time it gets a mention is when talking about individuals who do believe it like certain Republican candidates.

0 Replies

It wasn’t for no reason. It was to call bullshit on you for all the tough talk you spew toward Trump supporters here but you’re butt buddies with them at home.

This is what flies for you as taking it and dishing it out “like a man”? How f*cking pathetic is that?

Well I guess at your age you have to flex where you can.

Post some more animals. That’ll show me.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Here's are a few more comfort animals. I hope you calm down for a while:

You won’t get a lot of comfort from a honey badger Frank, they’re really vicious bastards and have been known to attack hyenas and even lions when cornered.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Here's are a few more comfort animals. I hope you calm down for a while:

You won’t get a lot of comfort from a honey badger Frank, they’re really vicious bastards and have been known to attack hyenas and even lions when cornered.

Yeah, I know.

Gosh, that was a mistake to post that as a comfort animal for Snood.

1 Reply

@snood,

Quote:

Does this make any sense to you, hightor?

Sure it does, Snood.

I posted the picture because I thought it was pretty cool. As far as the gist of the article, no, it doesn't really apply to the exchanges between you and Frank.

0 Replies

@neptuneblue,

I can understand Snood's position. I had a political conversation with my brother a couple of weeks ago. He is extremely religious in the Southern tradition. He's telling me about his black friends and how he strongly supports equality. But he is voting for Trump (with absolutely no reservations). I point out that Trump is a flaming racist who is doing more damage to minority communities in a year than he could ever repair in a lifetime and the next thing I know, he is standing, yelling about unborn babies and repeating right wing talking points about Planned Parenthood. The reality is that when his son got arrested for throwing eggs off an interstate bypass, he got off with a warning. When his sons get stopped by the police, he is very comfortable that they will walk away from the encounter alive, likely even without a ticket. It's that level of privilege that allows you to say civil rights are important but I'm voting for a tax cut this year or judges or immigration reform or for the guy I liked on TV. It's a great privilege to vote with no greater concern than to stick it to the other side when others are voting in the hope their children will not get shot by police.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

They’re also really intelligent. I saw a documentary about weasels and there was a honey badger, (actually a type of weasel,) using tools to get at a food source. That puts them in the same league as primates and crows.

1 Reply

There is an interesting question here for the liberals in the crowd... What would you do if Biden and Trump switched positions on abortion?

If Trump had all the same views... accept that he supported a woman's right to choose, and Biden was strongly pro-life.

Who would you vote for then? It is convenient that all of your political views match up with the candidates. But there is no reason that someone couldn't support BLM and be pro-life (these are two completely different issues).

If someone supported a pro-choice Trump because they believed a woman's right to choose was that important no matter what the other issues were... I don't think that would make them a racist.

3 Replies

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