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Peaceful Demonstrations

 
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2020 11:31 am
I keep hearing on A2K that the George Floyd demonstrators are peaceful and the only violence is coming from bad cops, roving our cities, beating people for fun. I posted some links in a different thread to cases of looting, destruction, and violence up to murder. Here is a case in which thugs have taken over an area of Seattle several blocks square and are charging businesses protection money to operate there.

And if you're going to say, I don't have to believe it because the article is on Fox, tell me specifically what you think is false.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 7 • Views: 832 • Replies: 68

 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2020 12:06 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
I keep hearing blah blah blah. Here is a case in which blah blah blah.


What is the point of this thread?
Brandon9000
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:03 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
I keep hearing blah blah blah. Here is a case in which blah blah blah.


What is the point of this thread?

In the thread, "New York City Protests, Violence and Fires," I sensed the prevailing opinion that almost all of the demonstrators are peaceful and that the main violence is being initiated by the police. The point of this thread is to demonstrate that that's not true. Beyond that, it seems newsworthy.
Sturgis
 
  7  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:28 pm
@Brandon9000,
The NYC protesters have been mostly peaceful. The The police for the most part have been well behaved. There are always bad folks in any group and the larger the group, the more likely there'll be some incidents.

In some cases, the looting and violence and overall destruction was initiated by "outsiders" . Outsiders might be locals from the 5 boroughs or from outside of the metro area.

Some came with law breaking in mind. They were stopped along the way to wherever and tools of destruction were in their possession. Things such as crowbars which were used to pry the plywood off of stores which had been shut down back in March when things closed down.
Other hooligans managed to escape detection before they began vandalizing. Some escaped again. it was shown that a number of Citibikes were taken out (legally) and used as escape methods. Scooters of the 2 wheel non-motorized as well. These were not protesters. These were scuzzy, scummy cretins. Hellbent on making the protesters look bad and thieving the night away at high end shops.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2020 03:27 pm
@Sturgis,
I agree with much of what you're saying, but the number of people involved in attempted or accomplished crimes is large. Beyond the lootings, the shootings, the burnings and the assaults, I saw hundreds of people trying to violently force their way into the White House multiple times. That's not peaceful. I guess you didn't look at the video I linked in above, but now in Seattle, protesters have cordoned off several square blocks of the city, are patrolling it with guns (a machine gun in one photo), and are extorting businesses there for money to be allowed to continue to operate. That's not peaceful and it's not small.
mesquite
 
  5  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2020 03:51 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
I keep hearing on A2K that the George Floyd demonstrators are peaceful and the only violence is coming from bad cops, roving our cities, beating people for fun.
I haven't replied to one of your posts in quite a while. I see your ability to construct strawmen has not diminished.
Brandon9000 wrote:
I guess you didn't look at the video I linked in above,
But perhaps your ability to post videos has.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2020 04:04 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
protesters have cordoned off several square blocks of the city, are patrolling it with guns (a machine gun in one photo)


Can you provide a link for this?

The people carrying machine guns are generally in the "Black Lives Don't Matter" crowd.
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maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 10:42 am
@Brandon9000,
Ok.... I love seeing Gretchen's self-righteous rage as much as anyone. But what does this have to do with "Peaceful Demonstrations"?

There are peaceful demonstrations springing up in every part of the country. My daughter and I walked to the center of our little suburb, there were thousands of people lining the streets with "Black Lives Matters" signs.

There are millions of Americans across the country who are getting behind this peacefully. In a thread titled "Peaceful Demonstrations", this is what you should be talking about.
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:09 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Ok.... I love seeing Gretchen's self-righteous rage as much as anyone. But what does this have to do with "Peaceful Demonstrations"?

There are peaceful demonstrations springing up in every part of the country. My daughter and I walked to the center of our little suburb, there were thousands of people lining the streets with "Black Lives Matters" signs.

There are millions of Americans across the country who are getting behind this peacefully. In a thread titled "Peaceful Demonstrations", this is what you should be talking about.

I'm not sure why I have to explain this, but taking over several blocks of a city with armed guards and extorting money from shopkeepers to be allowed to keep working there isn't peaceful. Neither is looting, burning, assault, murder, or trying to storm the White House by force. It's as though you were living in an alternate universe.

By the way, who's Gretchen?
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:48 am
@Brandon9000,
I agree with you that taking "looting, burning, murder or taking over blocks with armed guards" are not an example of peaceful demonstration.

So why wouldn't you put them into a thread entitled "not so peaceful demonstrations"?

There have been thousands of peaceful demonstrations.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 01:02 pm
@Brandon9000,
You sound like the one living in an alternative universe. Fox News, like Iran's Press TV, lost its licence to broadcast in the UK because it breaks laws of impartiality. The BBC is legally obliged to be impartial although it's right leaning.

This is what the BBC website has to say about the situation in Seattle.

Quote:
State authorities in the north-western US state of Washington have hit back after President Donald Trump threatened to "take back" a police-free district controlled by protesters in Seattle.

Governor Jay Inslee said Mr Trump should stay out of the state's business, and Seattle's mayor said any invasion of the city would be illegal.

In another tweet, he said "Domestic Terrorists have taken over Seattle", saying Washington Governor Jay Inslee was "looking 'the fool'".

Mr Inslee tweeted back: "A man who is totally incapable of governing should stay out of Washington state's business."

Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan defended the right to protest and told President Trump: "Make us all safe. Go back to your bunker."

"The threat to invade Seattle, to divide and incite violence in our city, is not only unwelcome, it would be illegal," she added.

Earlier this month, when protests were spreading across the US, Mr Trump threatened to send in the US Army if state governors - who oversee law and order - were unable to guarantee safety and secure property on their streets.

This would involve invoking the Insurrection Act, a 19th Century law which includes details of circumstances when the government in Washington DC can intervene without state authorisation.

The act says the approval of governors is not required when the president determines the situation in a state makes it impossible to enforce US laws, or when citizens' rights are threatened.

This law was last invoked in 1992 during riots in Los Angeles following the acquittal of four police officers charged with assaulting black motorist Rodney King, but on that occasion the governor of California requested help.

The law was used throughout the 1950s and 60s during the civil rights era by three different presidents. On some of these occasions there were objections from state governors.

Police say they want to reopen the precinct and it is unclear how long the autonomous zone will remain.

At a news conference on Wednesday, Assistant Chief Deanna Nollette said the police department had been abandoned because of threats that it would be vandalised or burned. She said the protesters' barricades were intimidating some residents.

Police Chief Carmen Best posted a video message to officers in which she said the police withdrawal "seems like an insult to you and our community".

On Thursday afternoon the police chief said claims that citizens and businesses were being extorted in the zone were not true and had been based on anecdotal evidence from news and social media.

Ms Best said call response times in the area served by East Precinct are normally between 5-18 minutes, but are now taking almost an hour, reports local Komo News.

She said this means police are not able to respond to reports of assaults, rapes and robberies.

Police abandoned a precinct there on Monday after days of clashes.

Mr Trump said the area had been overtaken by "domestic terrorists".

Since police withdrew, demonstrations in the area have been largely peaceful.

It has been called Chaz, an abbreviation of Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone. Hundreds of people have been gathering there to demonstrate, hear speeches and attend events.

The protests in Seattle, Washington began in response to last month's death in police custody of an unarmed black man, George Floyd, in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

President Trump, who has pushed states to take firm action against protesters, has meanwhile outlined proposals for reforming police, including greater funding for training and national guidelines on the use of force.

However, he dismissed calls for defunding the police as an "extreme agenda". Such a measure involves budgets being allocated directly to communities rather than law enforcement.

The area around East Precinct in Seattle became a battleground between protesters and police in the past two weeks, leading the governor to send in the National Guard and for the mayor to impose a curfew.

During the violence, demonstrators threw missiles at police, cars were torched and looting broke out, according to local media.

At the weekend, Seattle police used tear gas and flash bangs to disperse protesters. Members of the city council rebuked the police department, accusing them of heavy-handed tactics.

Then on Monday, the mayor ordered barricades to be removed near the precinct and the police building was boarded up.

Since then protesters have taken over a zone spanning about six blocks of Capitol Hill, a hub of the city's trendy arts scene that has been gentrified in recent years as tech workers drive up property prices.

Their demands include "defunding" the police - reducing funding to spend more on health and other community services - better disciplinary policies for police and the dropping of criminal charges against protesters.

"My grandparents marched and they were scared of getting dogs on them and tear gas," said 15-year-old protester Francis Vann, quoted by the Seattle Times newspaper.

"Tear gas isn't going to hurt me, isn't going to stop me. I'm young. I just really want a change."

Artist Kimisha Turner told AFP: "I want my son to see that everybody out here cares about him and his life. Especially after so many weeks of protests and everything it just feels really good to be part of something that's really positive and peaceful."

Local media describe a festival-like atmosphere, with poetry readings, music and movie nights. Free fizzy water, snacks, sunscreen and hand sanitiser are available.

In a series of tweets, the Republican president lashed out at liberal Democratic leaders in the north-western US state of Washington and its most populous city of Seattle.

"Take back your city NOW," Mr Trump wrote on Thursday. "If you don't do it, I will."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53017776

It sounds a bit like Christiania in Copenhagen, that's a self proclaimed independent bloc. You can get really good hash there but the police periodically raid the place, not that it does any good. The lookouts and alarm systems are just too good.
jespah
 
  8  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 01:39 pm
@Brandon9000,
Isn't she the governor of Michigan?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 08:38 pm
Peaceful demonstrations didn't go over very well with conservatives either.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2020/06/GettyImages-613747086-e1591661509730.jpg

... just saying.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:27 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I agree with you that taking "looting, burning, murder or taking over blocks with armed guards" are not an example of peaceful demonstration.

So why wouldn't you put them into a thread entitled "not so peaceful demonstrations"?

There have been thousands of peaceful demonstrations.


I'm sure that most of the protesters would like to demonstrate peacefully, as is their right, however the number of people committing violent and other illegal acts is not small. Why haven't the allegedly overwhelming number of peaceful demonstrators acted strongly to stop the crimes, or else, at least separated themselves from the people committing them, and I include trying to rush the White House by force repeatedly in the crimes?

And what about the elderly, black, retired policeman, David Dorn, who was shot to death trying to guard his friend's store? Why no large scale outcry against the looters for that?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:29 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
You sound like the one living in an alternative universe. Fox News, like Iran's Press TV, lost its licence to broadcast in the UK because it breaks laws of impartiality....

I defy you to find anything in the Fox news article that's false.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:30 pm
@jespah,
jespah wrote:
Isn't she the governor of Michigan?

The article was about Seattle.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:32 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Peaceful demonstrations didn't go over very well with conservatives either.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2020/06/GettyImages-613747086-e1591661509730.jpg

... just saying.


I'm trying to counter the narrative that there is little crime involved in the protests. On the contrary, there has been a huge amount of crime. Are you trying to make some sort of argument to justify the violence?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:53 pm
@Brandon9000,
There are thousands of peaceful protests that are taking part across the country. I know this personally.

When you say there is a "huge amount of crime"...

1. I think it is irrelevant. Crime does not invalidate peaceful protests.

2. I think the great majority of protests are peaceful. When you say "huge amount of crime" what percentage of protesters are we talking about.

3. My daughter and I arent criminals, and we certainly didn't loot anything. Nor did we see any inappropriate behavior in the protests we attended.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:54 pm
Do you support the peaceful protests?
 

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