22
   

What is the short term/long term future of a2k?

 
 
hightor
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 08:30 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I certainly don't think this woman should have lost her job.

Christian Cooper said the same thing.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 08:38 am
@hightor,
If you guys all know that I am correct, feel free to speak up and join me when I speak out against the forces of evil.

I'm certainly capable of representing the good guys all by myself. But allies are still welcome.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 10:09 am
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:
(In response to Chai)

Really? Really? It's not that difficult. I'm suggesting based on ... let's call it anecdotal evidence and a couple of whispers that Robert isn't trying to keep a2k from eventually shutting down completely.

I really don't understand how you think anything I wrote mentions making the site popular or ... um ... vital?? Bizarre choice of a word which is yours, not mine.

Asking about the worst-case scenario if the site is finally closed and what other sites would someone consider using as an alternative to a2k? If they would actively want to find a place to interact as a community if that happens? Or just move on with their virtual lives and not find an a2k replacement. I was trying to be a bit tactful as I don't have any hard evidence other than a turn of phrase dropped in another thread.

Just a thread based on relative morbid curiousity.


Don't think there are a lot of sites quite like this one, Steve. But, the best way to handle what you are suggesting may be the case:

For those who post in other places, mention the names of those forums (fora)...and offer a comment or two about what you think of the pace. If the worst happens here, people will have some suggestions for where to find a new forever home.

I post at Just Plain Politics.Com. It is much more than just politics and has almost no moderation at all. You can have your say in the way you feel most comfortable...and most people keep it reasonable. ("Reasonable" being a rather flexible concept.) Certainly no more gross and bottom -feeding in nature than regularly goes on here.

I was at Debate Politics.com for a while, but that is like a concentration camp with moderators on everyone's back for the most moderate of "infractions." They tend to think that they are the elite of the elite. But for those of you who like a forum with heavy moderation...it could a place you would enjoy.

I post at The Philosophy Forum...but the format there is not conducive to the kinds of threads found here. I'd recommend it as a side forum.

For the atheists here, there is Agnostics.com. But Agnostics.com does not work for agnostics at all. The atheists dominate...and agnostics are pretty much advised to hump Volkswagen. The atheists would love it, though.
oralloy
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 10:25 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I post at Just Plain Politics.Com. It is much more than just politics and has almost no moderation at all. You can have your say in the way you feel most comfortable...and most people keep it reasonable. ("Reasonable" being a rather flexible concept.) Certainly no more gross and bottom -feeding in nature than regularly goes on here.

Wave hi to Hawkeye for me. I saw he was posting there a few weeks ago when someone questioned whether he was still alive.

https://able2know.org/topic/548123-1#post-7004948


Frank Apisa wrote:
I was at Debate Politics.com for a while, but that is like a concentration camp with moderators on everyone's back for the most moderate of "infractions." They tend to think that they are the elite of the elite. But for those of you who like a forum with heavy moderation...it could a place you would enjoy.

I like it overall. It's one of the places I go when I'm suspended from a2k.

The moderation is beyond draconian. But that means I can post without dealing with progressive name-calling. I don't have to engage in silly arguments over my IQ because anyone who challenged my intellect would receive a lifetime ban. I can focus my time and energy entirely on substance.

One thing I don't like about it is, it is too active. If I see a progressive posting an idiotic falsehood, ten other people have posted a correction of the falsehood before I even started reading the thread.

There are plenty of progressives posting idiotic falsehoods of course. I don't mean to say that progressives are outnumbered. It's just that conversations can move by pretty quickly there.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:32 pm
@hightor,
I've found myself on Reddit more and more for these discussions.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 06:18 pm
The quality of discourse here has been steadily in decline. The future of A2K is not bright.
Olivier5
 
  4  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 01:35 am
@chai2,
Quote:
To be honest, I totally believe the bulk of issues lies in the hands of a small handful of posters. You know, the one’s who walk into a group talking at a party, and instantly the vibe changes from just having a good time to feeling like you’d just rather go home.

I see a contradiction between the desire to open a2k more to new posters and to try and retain them one the one hand, and the desire to maintain a cosy and exclusive space for a few friends on the other hand. The way I see it, this board has never really decided whether it wants to be a forum for exchange of ideas (which implies a broad tent approach to membership) or a social media for making friends and maintaining those friendly relationships through chatter (which implies a narrow membership because you don’t want the average troll to ruin the party). It can’t really be both at the same time as the ethos is not the same (what you value in one case is not what you value in another).

At the moment it is heavily tilted towards the “friends’ club” model, or Perhaps better called the frenemies model: a small, cosy space for folks who have known each other for a long time. Like a facebook page a bit. I interpret attempts by some to shutter down some posters on a2k as a manner to enforce the facebookish frenemies model and remain exclusive.

Personally, I’m more interested in the discussion, so in the broad tent model in theory, though I’m also fine with some mindless chatter between friends. I also find this place easier to navigate than Reddit or 4chan so I haven’t given up on a2k yet in spite of the fact that it doesn’t really welcome open debates.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 02:15 am
@Frank Apisa,
Hump Volkswagen? Never heard this one before.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 04:20 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Hump Volkswagen? Never heard this one before.


I can understand that. I made it up while posting that comment. My intention was to convey the idea that the atheists at Agnostic.com out-number the agnostics by a LOT...and most consider agnostics to be worthless. Not sure why they use the Agnostic.com title, but...
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 05:17 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
The way I see it, this board has never really decided whether it wants to be a forum for exchange of ideas (which implies a broad tent approach to membership) or a social media for making friends and maintaining those friendly relationships through chatter (which implies a narrow membership because you don’t want the average troll to ruin the party). It can’t really be both at the same time as the ethos is not the same (what you value in one case is not what you value in another).

In the open model, what is valued is a frank exchange of ideas, as well as the capacity to listen to other people's POV. So if a 'friend' (someone you often find yourself in agreement with, e.g. a fellow dem, or a fellow rep) says something you disagree with, and an 'enemy' says something you agree with, your duty in the open model is to side with your 'enemy' against your 'friend" and say what you think.

However, in the closed (frenemies) model, what matters most is the quality of the relationship you build with friends. So in the situation above, your duty is to side with your friend against your enemy. It doesn't matter that you secretly agree with your enemy. You'd be an asshole to say it out loud. So you will side with your friend, even if that creates an echo chamber.

And this is how a poster like Max, who loathes tribal allegiances and fixed ideological lines, can be simultaneously a good guy in the open model and a bad guy in the closed model. Your take on him depends on what you expect from a2k, what model you prefer. If you want a quiet chatter with friends, at the risk of verging on the self-congratulating echo chamber, then maybe don't invite him, but if all you want is a frank debate and don't care to make imaginary (sorry, virtual) friends too much, he's top...
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 06:08 am
@Olivier5,
Nailed it
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 06:18 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
The way I see it, this board has never really decided whether it wants to be a forum for exchange of ideas (which implies a broad tent approach to membership) or a social media for making friends and maintaining those friendly relationships through chatter (which implies a narrow membership because you don’t want the average troll to ruin the party). It can’t really be both at the same time as the ethos is not the same (what you value in one case is not what you value in another).

In the open model, what is valued is a frank exchange of ideas, as well as the capacity to listen to other people's POV. So if a 'friend' (someone you often find yourself in agreement with, e.g. a fellow dem, or a fellow rep) says something you disagree with, and an 'enemy' says something you agree with, your duty in the open model is to side with your 'enemy' against your 'friend" and say what you think.



However, in the closed (frenemies) model, what matters most is the quality of the relationship you build with friends. So in the situation above, your duty is to side with your friend against your enemy. It doesn't matter that you secretly agree with your enemy. You'd be an asshole to say it out loud. So you will side with your friend, even if that creates an echo chamber.

And this is how a poster like Max, who loathes tribal allegiances and fixed ideological lines, can be simultaneously a good guy in the open model and a bad guy in the closed model. Your take on him depends on what you expect from a2k, what model you prefer. If you want a quiet chatter with friends, at the risk of verging on the self-congratulating echo chamber, then maybe don't invite him, but if all you want is a frank debate and don't care to make imaginary (sorry, virtual) friends too much, he's top...


Agree in large part, especially about your take on Max.

One problem with A2K...as it was during the end days of Abuzz...is the clique aspect. There are some people who see themselves AS A2K...and see the rest as "others."

I've posted in over a dozen fora and have never seen it quite as evident as here. Of course there are alliances everywhere (as there are in the non-cyber world), but "clique" implies a lot more than alliances...and not in a good way.

That said, however, you get as many really good conversations here as in any of the other fora. But because of the obvious cliquishness, this forum will never have a population the size it should have. Which of course impacts negatively on the diversity of opinion.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 06:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
One problem with A2K...as it was during the end days of Abuzz...is the clique aspect. There are some people who see themselves AS A2K...and see the rest as "others."

In my view, these are posters who want to keep a2k as a tightly-nit friend group, a social network, as opposed to an open marketplace of ideas.

I've put two baits on the philosophy forum you mentioned. Lets see if someone takes them... I miss that here.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  -4  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 07:49 am
@maporsche,
I send most of my time at democraticunderground.com

oralloy, cj, lash would not last very long. livinlava just might.
maporsche
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 07:52 am
@bobsal u1553115,
I have found this particular sub-reddit to be great.

https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/

1) threaded conversations
2) notifications when someone replies to a comment you made
3) much easier to search
4) ability to save threads/posts

Some subreddits are huge and it's hard to have a conversation with people there, but others are not so big and you can find as big/small a community as you like.
bobsal u1553115
 
  -2  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 07:55 am
@maporsche,
https://i.redd.it/h4tb9z82vc451.jpg

Like it already!
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 08:51 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
The quality of discourse here has been steadily in decline.

I consider this member to contribute "high quality" discourse (for the most part) even though I don't agree with him that often. The fact that he chooses not to post here as often is both causal and symptomatic.
Quote:
The future of A2K is not bright.

The future of many other institutions with which we've identified isn't very bright either. This is no time for rosy scenarios. I suggest we generally lower our expectations.
Lash
 
  2  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 10:58 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Hahaha!! I’m there now, dotard.
Leadfoot
 
  3  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:15 am
@hightor,
Quote:
The future of many other institutions with which we've identified isn't very bright either. This is no time for rosy scenarios. I suggest we generally lower our expectations.
There’s my problem. I suck at that.
Lowering expectations that is. The current institutions can all go anytime.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  -3  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 11:19 am
@Lash,
Then you aren't showing your true colors, hypocrite.You don't do any name calling, that's for sure. So why do you do it here?

You aren't calling Democrats and Republicans two sides of the same coin. You certainly aren't encouraging anyone to vote Green! There's only about 10 people who promote Bernie in any significant way.

I bet you were on DI, too.
 

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