Sports and the Pandemic? When do we finally open this up?

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I am happy to announce that

wait for it

WE RE HOLDING OUR TENTH ANNUAL BOCCE BALL TOURNMENT ON MEMORIAL DAY 2020

social distancing for all but the drinkers

Considering the state of ESPN and the lack of live sports going on these days, on which ESPN channel will this bocce ball tournie be broadcasted on? Wink

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@tsarstepan,

Quote:

will this bocce ball tournie be broadcasted

Why, d'yer need a nap?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The Ego and the Soul are the same thing.

If I can't say "Woo hoo! I made it to the good afterlife based on my decisions", than it isn't me who has eternal life, is it.

Let's say there is some vague entity in heaven who doesn't like sex and gambling and isn't sometimes a pain in the ass. The celestial authorities might label that entity as "Max", but it wouldn't really be me.

Ego isn't a thing; it is the mind's self-identification behavior. Pride and shame are the emotions of ego. When the mind is just focused on doing something without paying attention to self-identification/judgment, that's egoless.

That's why they say "there's no 'i' in 'team,' i.e. because when the mind is really focused on working together with others to achieve a goal, you lose focus on your own personal issues of whether you are the star or just a supporting player. You don't want to be that person who puts their own personal issues of being the star, or even just getting appreciation for being supporting player with a small role. Your concern is with doing what you can to help the team to succeed.

But then there's team/collective ego where collective pride/shame because a whole other level of egotism and you end up with nonsense like soccer hooligans or players who will cheat so the team can win unfairly, i.e. because the collective pride of the school/country they represent is at stake.

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I've been watching sports (baseball). Granted, it's not live, but it's been entertaining. Don Larson's perfect game. Also the perfect game pitched by David Wells. Derek Jeter's last home game. Bios of Mickey Mantle and Bernie Williams. (Yes, I get YES, the Yankee Entertainment Something.)

Not much suspense, but I enjoy the games and seeing the players. Also the crowds. And seeing the old stadium, where I spent many hours of my teenage years.

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@tsarstepan,

were having rain!!!. Bocce Ball has been delayed.(maybe we will have a double header in August0

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@livinglava,

Nice, LL.
'sewing/reaping', 'Wheat from chaff'.

I agree, loosely.

'ALL experience is essential - For How can 'perfection' be understood unless 'imperfection' is completely recognised...?'

ALL turns out Brilliantly - For ALL.
There are NO 'Consequences' for anyone/thing.

Have a Lovely Day

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@maxdancona,

The 'EGO' is the ABSOLUTE opposite of Soul... Sayeth the 'soul'.

EGO does as it pleases
Soul does what is perfect

Have a Lovely Day

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@livinglava,

Absolutely.

Nice meeting you, LL.

If Pride & Shame are Not by name
Betrothed, I understand
That neither can existeth
Lest doth walk they
Hand-in-Hand.

Have a Lovely Day

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We got an email from my daughter's coach. As youth sports are supposed to open during phase 2 and 3, they are expecting practices to start in about 3 weeks with actual tournament games beginning of July.

He had detailed out what they thought they would be doing as far as keeping them safe, etc. And what the tournament organizations are planning to do. This is including potentially only allowing a limited number of parents/people to view the games to televising or broadcasting the games.

The way the email was wording it also sounds like depending on how various parents/players feel - you can get a refund and not participate if you feel unsafe.

There is no way I can stop my daughter - (not that I want to) - she is so excited to start playing with her team again. She needs this for her mental state.

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

We got an email from my daughter's coach. As youth sports are supposed to open during phase 2 and 3, they are expecting practices to start in about 3 weeks with actual tournament games beginning of July.

He had detailed out what they thought they would be doing as far as keeping them safe, etc. And what the tournament organizations are planning to do. This is including potentially only allowing a limited number of parents/people to view the games to televising or broadcasting the games.

The way the email was wording it also sounds like depending on how various parents/players feel - you can get a refund and not participate if you feel unsafe.

There is no way I can stop my daughter - (not that I want to) - she is so excited to start playing with her team again. She needs this for her mental state.

What do you think the chances are that if any of the kids contract COVID19, that it will spread to all the families via the team?

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@livinglava,

There is always that chance. You take precautions, but at some point you go back living.

If you are an athlete, nothing is worse than not playing. You and I know many people may feel this an extreme, but it is a part of her. She knows what it feels like to have to sit out and not play and it caused havoc on her mental state. She tore her ACL and was unable to play for almost two years and a year with very limited exercise. For someone used to playing a lot - it actually can cause severe anxiety and depression.

Not sure if this is what caused her anxiety but it was around that time that she starting have serious issues. As a result, we moved her to a smaller school and she sees a counselor regularly. For someone like her - she needs to play to feel good. Mental health is as important as what you would traditionally call physical or medical health. Unless you personally have had to deal with this sort of thing - it can be difficult to understand - I know as I was on the other side before and I would hear of someone like that and just think why don't they just snap out of it - why? Because it is not that simple.

Any way - yes - this is good for her and she needs this. Sometimes you need to weigh the risk. There are likely some families that will decide it is not for them - which I completely understand. But I know my child and she lives for this type of play and competition and team work. It is a part of her and why she wants to play college ball. Not because she expects to be this professional player or anything because she loves it and in her words cannot imagine not playing.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

There is always that chance. You take precautions, but at some point you go back living.

If you had stopped living, you'd be dead.

Quote:

If you are an athlete, nothing is worse than not playing.

Sure there is. No one wants to kill their grandparents or someone else's grandparents because they took unnecessary risks. People want to be told the risk is acceptable and then to be told it wasn't their fault that other people got infected and/or died; but the reality is that we are responsible for making choices that are not needs but wants.

Quote:

You and I know many people may feel this an extreme, but it is a part of her. She knows what it feels like to have to sit out and not play and it caused havoc on her mental state. She tore her ACL and was unable to play for almost two years and a year with very limited exercise. For someone used to playing a lot - it actually can cause severe anxiety and depression.

We all need exercise. Sport is a crutch for many people, who can't get motivated to exercise without it.

Quote:

Not sure if this is what caused her anxiety but it was around that time that she starting have serious issues.

Kids are difficult in general. It's difficult to motivate them in this culture we have created where everything is about entertaining them and motivating them. There is an old fashioned culture that just involves choosing what is right and doing it, even though it may not be interesting or attractive for you. If you are stuck inside, for example, you do yoga or something else that you can do to train your body inside. If you can't play sports with other athletes, you can still go out running/jogging/hiking/biking, dance in the yard, or whatever.

Quote:

As a result, we moved her to a smaller school and she sees a counselor regularly. For someone like her - she needs to play to feel good. Mental health is as important as what you would traditionally call physical or medical health. Unless you personally have had to deal with this sort of thing - it can be difficult to understand - I know as I was on the other side before and I would hear of someone like that and just think why don't they just snap out of it - why? Because it is not that simple.

It is not simple, no. Kids are difficult and stubbornly insist that they can't do thing because they have the power to resist discipline/authority, and because they don't want to make choices and commit to actions using willpower that goes beyond what's easy for them. It is not simple or easy. Sometimes they don't come around to taking responsibility and independent action until their 20s or 30s, if ever. Life is a maze that many people never master.

Quote:

Any way - yes - this is good for her and she needs this. Sometimes you need to weigh the risk. There are likely some families that will decide it is not for them - which I completely understand. But I know my child and she lives for this type of play and competition and team work. It is a part of her and why she wants to play college ball. Not because she expects to be this professional player or anything because she loves it and in her words cannot imagine not playing.

Just realize the risks. If you downplay them to justify letting her do what she wants, that won't stop the kids from exchanging pathogens and transmitting them through to each others' grandparents. History is going to remember this time as one where people made choices about whose sacrifice was worth whose comfort, and those who survive to old age will have to look back and reflect on what sacrifices they endured (or not) to do what they could to stop the disaster.

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@livinglava,

So this is the last I will address you on this subject as you obviously are simply arguing for the sake of argument. You are not using any facts here and you have no understanding of true mental health issues. You appear to be making assumptions and pulling out arguments which are not there.. i.e. unless you live under a rock you understand the meaning of ..you go back to living...so unless you are obtuse you understand it is not literal; there was never any mention of involving older adults that are at high risk...etc.

You throw things in that any reasonable person would understand and you stretch the meaning so you can argue against it.

I could understand someone saying this would not be for me or my family - it is not worth the risk. Or do you have an elderly relative living with you or similar.

You do not have any real concern for others - otherwise you would state something like the above. You would not make assumptions that we hanging at the nursing home after going to a big game with lots of other people. There was no mention I was going to hang with my mom after this --- anyone who has read anything I wrote has witnessed what we do when we "visit" my mom.

So I have nothing further to say to you as you do not add any value to a conversation. You simply pull each sentence someone writes and tries to twist things so you can argue against it. Sorry I am not going to help your boredom any more. An example of that is when you pulled the sentence of my daughter not being able to play sports --- she could NOT exercise because she tore her ACL - she had surgery and for several weeks could not even put weight on her leg - she was bedridden for a week --- how was she supposed to do yoga or any sort of indoor exercise.

And it is quite obvious you know more than her pediatrician and her counselor on how to handle her anxiety. Jeepers you could have saved us a lot of money and we could have just had her grounded for the past two years as that discipline would have solved all her problems.

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

So this is the last I will address you on this subject as you obviously are simply arguing for the sake of argument. You are not using any facts here and you have no understanding of true mental health issues.

Which parts of my post would be better supported by facts? What kind of facts?

As for not understanding 'true mental health issues,' we are all going through stress because of routine-change. I don't pretend to know every individual, but I know people who claim everything from autism to ADHD to explain behaviors that amount to resisting discipline because it's hard.

Quote:

You appear to be making assumptions and pulling out arguments which are not there.. i.e. unless you live under a rock you understand the meaning of ..you go back to living...so unless you are obtuse you understand it is not literal; there was never any mention of involving older adults that are at high risk...etc.

1) I was making a point that people fail to appreciate that whatever you do on a daily basis is 'living.' It is fundamentally flawed to think about living at home as 'not living' because we have to take care of ourselves and our things at home to remain healthy. You have to clean your house and your body, prepare food, do dishes, do yoga/stretch/exercise, etc. It is a way of living and one that must be appreciated now, because it is saving lives.

2) never any mention of older adults? there doesn't have to be mention of it. They are there and when a team of kids starts practicing together, an infection in one is going to spread to all the others, who are going to bring it home to their households, and then the people in their households are going to come in contact with others, etc. until it makes it to someone who is old or otherwise vulnerable.

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I could understand someone saying this would not be for me or my family - it is not worth the risk. Or do you have an elderly relative living with you or similar.

You don't have to have an elderly relative living with you in your household to protect them. Every individual, household, and other venue is a transmission hub for pathogens. We have to take risks to do shopping and other necessities, but each time we take those risks, we are increasing the chance someone old or otherwise vulnerable is going to contract COVID19 somewhere along the chain of contacts/exposures.

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You do not have any real concern for others - otherwise you would state something like the above. You would not make assumptions that we hanging at the nursing home after going to a big game with lots of other people. There was no mention I was going to hang with my mom after this --- anyone who has read anything I wrote has witnessed what we do when we "visit" my mom.

I don't know what you do when you visit your mother, but I don't think you can quarantine old people so that everyone else can just go about whatever business they please.

Have you read that Cuomo is paying line-of-duty compensation to first-responders who die of Covid19? I assume those people are young and healthy, but they are not only getting the disease and permanent damage from it; they are DYING! Obviously everyone doesn't die, but the more we engage in shared activities, the more we exchange air, and sports/exercise involves a lot of heavy breathing in close proximity to multiple others.

Quote:

So I have nothing further to say to you as you do not add any value to a conversation. You simply pull each sentence someone writes and tries to twist things so you can argue against it. Sorry I am not going to help your boredom any more. An example of that is when you pulled the sentence of my daughter not being able to play sports --- she could NOT exercise because she tore her ACL - she had surgery and for several weeks could not even put weight on her leg - she was bedridden for a week --- how was she supposed to do yoga or any sort of indoor exercise.

I never claimed to know you or your situation specifically. If you posted a thread on how to do yoga or indoor exercise with an injury, I might have read and responded to it; but now you are attacking me and then posting your personal information as a rhetorical question to emphasize how dire your situation is and thus force me to say you are right and I'm wrong. Well, I simply don't know you well enough to evaluate that one way or the other, so all I can do is post my thoughts, which is independent of your situation.

Quote:

And it is quite obvious you know more than her pediatrician and her counselor on how to handle her anxiety. Jeepers you could have saved us a lot of money and we could have just had her grounded for the past two years as that discipline would have solved all her problems.

I never claimed to know you or your family. I am just looking at it from the perspective of knowing all the kids and families who manipulate systems to justify getting whatever they can get. I can't say that's what you are doing or not because I don't know you. I can only tell you that there are lots of people looking for any precedent to make an excuse to get into some activities, so the question is whether to let children run the world with their desires or whether to stop them from causing harm because they're not mature enough to make the sacrifices that are necessary to prevent harm.

These are general issues, not specific to you or your family. The world consists of all families, not just yours.

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Reopening too soon: Lessons from the deadly second wave of the 1918 flu pandemic
What the 1918 flu pandemic can teach states about reopening during coronavirus

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/05/24/second-wave-pandemic-flu-1918-coronavirus/

Adriana Usero
May 24, 2020 at 6:00 a.m. CDT

As coronavirus lockdowns loosen and some Americans flock to restaurants, beaches, and other outdoor spaces for Memorial Day weekend, the question of reopening too quickly is striking an eerily familiar tone.

The global flu epidemic of 1918 remains the deadliest on record. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the pandemic killed an estimated 50 million worldwide and over half a million in the United States. J. Alexander Navarro of the University of Michigan’s Center for History of Medicine is one of the organizers of the “Influenza Archive,” a collection of information cataloging and studying the effects of the 1918 pandemic in 43 major U.S. cities.

The research sought an answer to a key question: Was social distancing effective in 1918 as a way of slowing the spread of the disease and saving lives?

Trump is ignoring the lessons of 1918 flu pandemic that killed millions, historian says

Navarro said cities that closed schools and banned public gatherings fared better against the flu. “They had both lower peak and total overall morbidity and mortality cases and deaths,” he said.

In fact, statewide orders making masks mandatory and shuttering nonessential businesses were widespread in 1918. San Francisco, for example, imposed fines on individuals failing to wear a mask in public, prompting protests.

Current research tracking the success of social distancing efforts to ease the spread of the novel coronavirus point to the same conclusion.

Sign up for our Coronavirus Updates newsletter to track the outbreak. All stories linked in the newsletter are free to access.

But varying levels of enforcement combined with World War I created a variety of outcomes in 1918. That fall marked the disease’s second and deadliest wave in the United States.

“The pandemic started in military camps first and foremost. So the military worked to try and control those epidemics in the camps,” Navarro said. “The average Joe in the fall of 1918 was very much preoccupied with things like the Liberty Loan drives.”
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A killer flu was raging. But in 1918, U.S. officials ignored the crisis to fight a war.

Philadelphia’s infamous decision not to cancel its Liberty Loan parade in late September resulted in 1,000 deaths in the span of 10 days, making the city one of the hardest hit by the epidemic.

Other cities like Denver lifted restrictions that November on Armistice Day to celebrate the end of the war, only to experience a deadlier spike.

“Pretty much every city that we examined reported on huge crowds immediately congregating downtown in stores and cafes and theaters and bowling alleys,” Navarro said, adding that the crowding happened on the very day social distancing orders were lifted.

Navarro notes that the main difference between 1918 and the current coronavirus pandemic is the vastly different economic landscape — particularly the role of retail, restaurants, movie theaters and other small businesses. “They could shut down places of public amusement and not have the same type of impact on the local economy in 1918 because the manufacturing sector was so dominant,” Navarro said. “This is an economy that’s built on the service sector. So I think we’re in for a much greater and more severe economic impact today than we were in 1918.”

As states continue to grapple with the pandemic, many are easing restrictions and pushing to revive lagging economies. But leading health experts warn of a second wave of infection. Navarro is cautious about which lessons to draw from the past, noting advances in medical science and technology, but points to a worrying parallel in human behavior.

“Even though the historical context changes, there’s going to be a great clamoring to get back to life as normal,” he said. “There could be really terrible public health consequences as a result.”

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

The flu in that time period had a high mortality in healthy people, including those in the 20-40 year age group which made that flu so much more devastating - also there was a difference in medical care.

Now granted that does not mean it will not spread like this flu - just that the 1918 flu hit younger and healthy people with a very high mortality rate.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-commemoration/1918-pandemic-history.htm

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https://image.politicalcartoons.com/239484/600/covid-19-jaws-2.png

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up first... hockey (maybe)...

Quote:

NHL adopts 24-team playoff if season returns

The NHL will abandon the rest of the regular season and go straight into the playoffs
with 24 teams instead of 16 if it is able to resume play, commissioner Gary Bettman
said Tuesday.

"As we seek some return to normalcy, this is an important day for NHL fans," Bettman
said of the Return To Play Plan. "Since March 12, we've been hopeful and optimistic
that by developing all options and alternatives, we could get to this point. I know I join
sports fans everywhere when I say we cannot wait for the players to hit the ice again."

Bettman said the goal is to hold an 82-game season in 2020-21.

While the players and NHL have agreed on a format, the NHL Players' Association has
not formally approved any actual return to finish the season. The league and NHLPA
still must figure out health and safety protocols and solve other issues, including where
to play.

"There's an ongoing 'if' question. But you have to do this in stages," NHLPA executive
director Don Fehr said. "There's never been any dispute that this can't go forward unless
the health and safety of everyone involved is protected."

(espn)

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My daughter's sports performance training may open in phase 2 which is 2-3 weeks away. They are applying with the board of health - since they are not a gym they may fall into the personal training category. Although she has been training virtually - it is not quite the same thing as being there.

Funny how people are different my older daughter is doing great with her virtual workouts - her college team along with some of the other athletic teams at the school have had different trainers setting up virtual training programs - she gets into even though they cannot see her whereas my younger daughter even though it is set up so the trainers can see the students, she has a harder time with the virtual she so much prefers in person.

1 Reply

Sports and the Pandemic? When do we finally open this up?

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