I Didn't Listen -- My marriage and My wife may be lost!!

your family has my sympathy, especially your kids, who are innocent bystanders. i don't want to sound judgmental, so i'll start by acknowledging that i've had some of the same issues your marriage has. your wife objecting to your facial expressions rings an alarm bell; it's not something you can put aside or shrug off, but needs to be addressed. going in for couple's counseling would be a good start. secondly, you MUST stop drinking and turning on your wife. if you can't stop, you need medical help. if your marriage disintegrates, it's going to be a lose-lose situation, so you have nothing to lose by trying something you haven't tried before. good luck to all of you.

yitwail, thanks for the reply

We do plan to seek a counselor. I am going in first and then we plan to go together. My wife wasn't to open to the counselor at first but indicated in our last conversation that she would like to go.

I do realize that any inappropriate behavior related to drinking has to stop. She has warned me before but I only heeded it for a while. Usually when things are going great, friends are over and have only a couple of drinks there is no problem. The problem is only on a rare occasion but she never knows when that it going to be. I intend to stop it completely either with counseling help, AA, doctors or something. I know for my families sake that this can't go on. I have always coined my drinking up to no impact hobby but I have realized that I may fit more into functioning alcoholic.

We have several issues to work but this is one I can fix even if it is too late for us it's not too late for me.

great that you're taking these steps. the counselor should also help you work on some of the history between the two of you, but these things take time so you'll need to be patient and persistent. when things have settled down a bit, as i'm hoping they will, it would probably be worthwhile trying to find lots of activities you both enjoy, so that you'll have more topics of conversation that are equally interesting to both of you.

After much reading my eyes are opening even more to the condescending attitude I have taken when speaking to my wife.

It is utterly amazing that I have fallen into that sequence not realizing what is happening. I know this is not the complete answer to everything that is going on but it really explains the cold shoulder that I get and most of the time I try to pin on her.

I will work on how I respond and communicate with her and I definitely don't want it to come across as calculated. Basically, I want to speak to her the way I feel about her (with love and compassion) but fear it won't come out the right way. Any pointers out there?

I guess the smarter we think we are proves how dumb one can be

Warned, I must commend you for realizing you have a problem, and for the willingness to seek counseling.

It's very easy when you're married to speak to each other without respect, to sound demeaning, and to belittle each other.

I really think you and your wife love each other very much. If it is true that you, in words or facial expressions, demean her, then stop the behaviour that is insulting to her and learn to appreciate her for being your wife and the mother of your children. If you display those actions in front of your children, then they will also carry on this way with their mother, and that is very unacceptable. Children know what they learn, and if you respect and love your wife, so will your children.

You have a very wise lady there, and whatever attracted you to each other in the beginning is still there, it's just so easy to forget that. Don't let it happen, the grass is not greener on the other side, it's only our perspective of it.

Good luck!

Re: I Didn't Listen -- My marriage and My wife may be lost!!
Warned.. you sound a bit like my husband. He does not mean it.. I know in my heart.. but the words come out very condescending and not approving of my actions. I on the other hand don't know how to communicate the hurt feelings to my husband.

It is wonderful you have realised where the problem lies. I would also suggest, before you speak you rethink what you are going to say. Evaluate if your wife told you the same thing, how would you feel. If you feel your wife could tell you the exact same words and it would not hurt you, then you can tell those. Encourage your wife to help you realise your problems. Ask her to tell you clearly the facial expressions that she does not like and the exact words or the tone that hurt her. Then you make attempts to not repeat those.

Let her feel, that you are trying to correct yourself because you love her. That would surely help in healing her wounds. If she feels loved in the relationship she would also make attempts to help your problem.

I hope you both get back together. My wishes for the both of you.

..ok hate me people..this is just my opinion....

why is it always you and your fault???? you come across like you are trying to convince yourself and us that its all your fault with how disrespectful you are to her????? I dont know buddy...you say this is your 2nd time at it? and its not working, because she 'stresses' these points out to you and now you are convinced its all your fault.......oh please... you two dont need a counselor you need a lawyer and leave...at the end of the day, your children are the most important thing-how stressed do you think they are right now...even though they dont show it they know whats going on, they can sense the disharmony.

If you ask me, there is something else going on with her.
Ask her

KiwiChik.. with due respect to your opinion.. I would say breaking is much easier than making. It takes years to build a relation, so think before breaking it off with a puff. Running away from a problem will not erase the problem. It will be just a way of shriking out of your responsibilities. I would try and make it work rather than spend my valuable emotions after a lawyer.

...sorry to sound so harsh earlier,
well you need to look a lot deeper than the surface problems
if you want to hold this marriage together.....
do you guys take time out together, just you and your wife away from the kids???? a weekend or even just one night out will do wonders, get to know each other and find out where you both are at today and where you both want to be in the future.....

talk like how you used to.

Actions speak louder than words. Don't simply tell her that you're going to respect and cherish her . . . show her that you actually do respect and cherish her in your everyday life together. Happiness in your relationship should be a daily pleasure.

The last couple of days there has been little conversation at all. She said that she is not willing to talk about anything related to our situation until sometime later, after visiting grandma leaves in a week possibly. I guess it is some good soak time to think. I do share the fault of our problems as in my first post (she tells me it's only superficial and not honest) but she isn't willing to admit that she has any accountability for what is happening.

One thing that has me curious is the fact that she has Thyroid problems. I know her meds for that can have a dramatic effect on mood and emotions. In one of our arguments she told me I had changed about 2 yrs. ago when I took a different job. 2 yrs. ago is also when she began meds for her thyroid after our 2nd child. She also told me she is tired of fighting every three months over the same issues. Every three months is when she gets blood draws done and meds updated. I know all of the instances don't line up but it makes me wonder. I try to be cognisant of when she has med adjustments and I have even mapped out on a calendar (started this about 6 months ago) the days of her cycle when sh*& is probably going to hit the fan so I don't respond in a way that complicates things. Of course I'm not always on top of these times and the frustration on my part gets the better of me at times.

Lovemyfamily --

She is a stay at home mom that is homeschooling our oldest. She is attending online college full time. We do not have any family in the area to keep the kids so going out on a date is almost impossible. We do have a friend watch the kids once in a while, while we go to the gym together but that hasn't happened lately. I offered to try to find a babysitter many times in the past but she isn't interested in anyone keeping the kids. For quite some time I would suggest different gatherings of moms and kids that she or we could go to, so they could get out of the house more but to no avail. When I am not working I do as much cooking and cleaning that I can get away with without causing problems (my laundry techniques aren't quite up to par but I do cook pretty good). I run interference with the kids also to let her get her work in school done. Ex. On nights she has to study or take a test I will take care of the kids. There are times when I will be up until 11 or 12 and I get up at 4:30 am for work. We have had issues when I have tried to go to bed early and not recognized that she needs me to help with something -- still working on my mindreading skills.

The different feedback from all of you really helps. I'm in no hurry to run away as I would have in the past but if she makes the decision that she can no longer be with me, I guess that's-- that. I am pondering some decisions also, thanks Kiwichik

At first she saw how much it hurts me and told a friend of hers that she couldn't do anything right now because of the state I am in. Well the last couple of days I have really sucked it up, not easy at all, and displaying the character that I'm concerned but okay with what is going on. Of course I was told that it seems that I don't care when I take this approach too. I still tell her I love her and look her directly in the eyes when talking, what talking we do.

I did give her a copy of a book I bought (softcopy on a disc). The title is "Should I Stay or Should I Go" When I asked her if she would like to take a look at a book I was looking at that was definitely not the right move. She thinks I'm just trying to fix her. She didn't even ask what the book was about. I thought it might help her make her decision if she really wants to go or stay. I read it to reinforce what I'm thinking and to try to look at all angles. I completely stopped sending any info or emails too her after that encounter.

I dont think that was a good idea giving her that book either lol
it may have sent her a mixed signal...as in regards to yourself in 'staying or going'.......
Maybe she is under a bit of stress with everything shes doing...and is directing her frustration toward you in a negative manner....which is making every tiny argument extremely over reacted.
Stress does funny things to people...even without them realising.

I think if I were you, just take a step backward and try not annoy her,
women can get a bit like that buddy we over react at silly little things
just cause we can! (sorry ladies) just help her with daily household chores
cooking dinner or just washing up, little things like that go a long way,
and let her slowly come to you to talk about things as frustrating as it seems to have to wait to find out what she wants to do...but push her and that will just make her more defiant and annoyed toward you.....
...and even worse you may push her into a rash decision that may be the wrong one!

KiwiChic -- Well, she didn't care to even look at the info so it worked out that she doesn't know what the book was about -- luck for me I guess

I'll continue to do all of the things you speak of, heck that's easy, I do them anyway I'll try to figure out a way to step it up a notch. Of course if I start doing additional stuff she recognizes it and instead of appreciation will say it isn't going to get me anywhere cause when or if things go back to normal I'll just return to being the same as I was before

It is definitely tough to do things this way but I'll figure out a time frame that I am willing to keep all of this up before I make a decision to shift gears. Part of me wants to take advantage of the fact that she is willing to separate/divorce now and do it amicably, but since that's not what I want to happen just yet I'll hang in there.

I know she has to revisit her doc around the 22nd for more bloodwork and any adjustments to meds for her Thyroid. I only bring this up because I'm hoping that some of the issues are related to this. If there is no required change after the blood test I'll have more confirmation that it is definitely all me that she has had enough of.

Thanks for the hints and tips, it ain't easy as everyone knows. I just stop a mile or so from my house when I go home from work, take several deep breaths, relax and think of the kids smiling face when I get home and it makes it a little easier.

oh ya poor bugger!......yeah its not nice going through what you are going through right now....very draining time.

Just do the best you can and hang in there buddy! :wink:

So, you expect her to just stand around and take your crap while you dry out? Get some discipline and stop plying her with your "soft abuse".
Dont look for justifications re: her
meds", you have no justifications nor excuses. I was a "soft abusive drunk". Its amazing that my wife stuck it out as she did. She gave me hard love and was not an enabler. When I finally came to, I realized what an angel I had. Sounds like youve got a good woman like that.
Anytime I hear these "meds" and PMS justifications being used to quietly accuse the other party of the breakdown of communications, I wanna puke.
If you didnt drink, youd be more sensitive and would actually see her needs in a clear light rather than an alcoholic haze. Its not about you chippy, its about both of you.

After I went to a drinky farm for a 28 day quik rinse,Thats the way my booze counselor talked to me, You think you can take it?

farmerman --

In my visit to a counselor tomorrow I will get a professional perspective if I should get help to quit drinking or if my personel initiative is enough. I don't drink when things in my life are bad (as in now) but I have realized that having a few drinks while things are good brings out bad things sometimes. I know my conversations are bouncing around but that's what these discussions are all about. Thanks for the direct perspective, it does help.

Hey farmerman...you are comparing your old alchy self to him and making out like he is a raving alcoholic who becomes uncontrolable after getting liquored.....its appears to me he needs a flamin drink !!!!

who said "raving" except you Quicky. Alcoholics can be totally in control and be soft abusers. The symptoms of the "put down" the rationalization, then asking in a manner that begs to be answered "well of course, you didnt have any choice" , Thats a dead giveaway

Warned, thats away dude. Believe me, the residual foggy perspective can last for a week even when dry. My counselor (I did not take well to group cause I was a real ess hole , my counselor said that I was feared in group) I didnt realize what I was like until I came out of my own journey .
I spent a long time trying to recapture a communication with my wife and kids. My only basis of restoring trust was to assure them that I was truly grateful for their tough love .
PS, I consider "soft abuse" as derisive put downs in front of others, or snide Corrections of her use of words that, in our courting days I found charming, or making myself larger and more threatening by irrational outbursts.
When you reach the point where you can look at yourself and laugh at how ridiculous you are , youve come far. When you ALL can look back and laugh, youre healing is beginning to take.

Look, The only reason Im preachin is because I spent gobs of good money to get abused by a counselor who, besides having the credentials, was himself an ex addict who pissed away his own life , even with a PHd in the very thing he was counseling patients.

See if being honest with her and asking her help to work with you on getting better, that way she wont be standing and waiting but will be an active participant.
She still loves you man.
My wife said the same things, She loved me but was going to leave because she wouldnt be treated in such a manner.

.... LOL Farmerman-still I dont think you can put him in the same light as you once were....yes I agree with you in a few of your comments but you are comparing apples to pears....there is more to it...than the odd day of over indulging in alcohol, and blabbing out all his frustrations!...