0
   

The Democrats Gloat Thread

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 02:10 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
I confess I don't know what a "zenit" is,


Okay, in English it's with an 'h' ('zenith') but from Latin (you're a lawyer, aren't you) you really should know zenit, or from Spanish or your ability to find other persons typos and grammatical errors ...
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 02:57 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I confess I don't know what a "zenit" is,


Okay, in English it's with an 'h' ('zenith') but from Latin (you're a lawyer, aren't you) you really should know zenit, or from Spanish or your ability to find other persons typos and grammatical errors ...


Most lawyers I know don't speak Latin. And of the Latin phrases I do know, "zenit" is not one of them. Nor does it appear in my law dictionary. But thanks for the Latin lesson.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:04 pm
I will such make one blanket comment. I think Nimh and Blatham should at least attempt to characterize and quote somebodyaccurately before presuming to pass judgment on them.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:17 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
blatham wrote:
So let's be clear. You have a moral disagreement with Clinton lying under oath about a personal sexual matter. You have no moral disagreement with the torture of people in CIA or forces' custody (who've had no trial).


Indeed .... I do not think Clinton should have lied under oath.

However, your next statement highlights the word "torture," which we both know from our prior participation in these threads, has various and sundry meanings to different persons on this board. So unless you define your term, we will go nowhere.

But it would be fair to say that I would be generally supportive of causing physical discomfort to terrorists if to do so would benefit the fight against terrorism. I understand you do not agree.

So let's be clear: You think lying is perfectly fine. In addition, you are more concerned that suspected terrorists captured on the field of battle fighting American forces be comfortable than you are learning information from them that might prevent future loss of life to American soldiers or civilians.


A fine example, tico, of your lack of integrity and honesty in such discussions. Anything short of "major organ failure" you term "causing physical discomfort". The matter of trials you simply avoid.

Please clarify for the rest of us what acts might constitute torture which are outside or above the range of those acts presently permitted?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:22 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Because over time, the constant barrage of negative reporting will have an effect. If the average Joe doesn't get a dose of reality, but is simply swallowing what he reads in the Times every day, it is no surprise his opinion will be negative.


Do you seriously believe that Bush's current negative poll numbers are explainable through referencing the liberal media bias you assert? I mean, are you for real here?


Yes, I am "for real." Do you seriously believe that negative reporting would not have that effect?

Quote:
The odd thing is that last year, in the half-year run-up to the elections, conservatives' complaints here about the vicious slant of the liberal media and those media's unrebating onslaught of negative news reached a screeching zenit.


I confess I don't know what a "zenit" is, much less a "screeching" one.

Quote:
But it was during that half a year or so that Bush's numbers actually stabilized. (See here, not updated since the elections I'm afraid).


Try reading my statements you quoted above again if you are still having difficulting understanding my point.


Lol! I had my post calling you what I think you are when you argue like this removed, Tico.

Suffice it to say that I believe your arguments on this matter to be waste material.


Your "Dlowan believes it ok to lie under oath" is typical of the intellectually bankrupt arguments you and other far right people here often employ.

You know, one criticizes the lies over which Iraq was invaded...this equals "You are a traitor"


One dares to point out the abuses being perpetrated by US troops on prisoners: "You dishonour the troops!" "Why do you hate America!" Terrorist!"

It is interesting how, as time goes on, all the fake horror the right have expressed about these things even being mentioned, and their scandalised denials that Bushco could ever do these things has evaporated to silence and "Clinton is bad!" as the evidence mounts.

You are especially bankrupt in this stuff, Tico, I do not believe I have ever heard you comment reasonably on these things, insted you attempt to derail threads discussing these serious matters with your "I hate Clinton" games.


We KNOW you hate Clinton. Try singing a new song, eh?

Thus, one disagrees with Tico, therefore one is morally bankrupt, supports lying under oath, farts in lifts, kicks canes out from blind people and steals candy from babies.

I do not have the time to reproduce the post, nor do I much feel like bothering with you.


As Blathan said, if you consider lying about consensual sex as less concerning than promoting torture (as Cheney is doing from his bunker as we speak), lying about reasons to invade another country, and running secret facilities in defiance of moral and US laws....so be it. I am a little stunned at your moral priorities...but there you go.

Since you asked, I do not approve of people lying under oath. Not that I expect truth to stop your comments, but nemmind.


By the same token, I do take into account circumstances of the offence.



Hey, I even defended your nasty governator on threads when similar charges of sexual harassment came up about him when he was running for governator.

I suspect he is quite the man in his behaviour towards women, but, as with the accusations about Clinton, the timing of the accusations stank to high heaven of political manipulation.

Clinton appeared in court re the accusations against him. Preesumably it was open for the judge/prosecutors to act re that matter when the lie came out...I gather they have not done so.


Clinton paid reasonably dearly for that lie.


I know you have hit upon a reason why Clinton was asked about a sexual matter when there had been NO hint of sexual coercion, I still do not see it as appropriate to raise consensual adult sex in a trial about harassment. The thing stinks of political witch hunt.

You will disagree. So be it.

I disagree with your moral code, too.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:30 pm
Quote:
One dares to point out the abuses being perpetrated by US troops on prisoners: "You dishonour the troops!" "Why do you hate America!" Terrorist!"


Much like when pointing the abuses being perpetrated by Muslim extremists on innocent civilians everywhere one gets labeled "racist!" and "Hater!"

I can see your point.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:30 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Most lawyers I know don't speak Latin.


Sorry, my fault: you must know Latin here when you study law (since 'Roman Law', law expression of Latin origin etc).
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:43 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
One dares to point out the abuses being perpetrated by US troops on prisoners: "You dishonour the troops!" "Why do you hate America!" Terrorist!"


Much like when pointing the abuses being perpetrated by Muslim extremists on innocent civilians everywhere one gets labeled "racist!" and "Hater!"

I can see your point.
\

Nah, one getscalled racist and hateful when one starts threads about how Muslims are prone to riot and be terrorists and cut people's heads off and generally be subhuman, (as blacks were once spoken of) as a general blanket thing. You know "Muslims are .......... (insert blanket statement about how horrible Muslims are).


As far as I know, the the troops who have been caught torturing and the government folk who are promoting such behaviour are the ones being blamed....I do not believe anyone has said "All US troops are torturers", "Americans as a whole are torturerers and subhuman" and stuff like that.

It is quite an easy distinction, McG, you should be able to get it.


One of them is about calling people on specific behaviours......the other is about tarring million sof people with the same brush.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:45 pm
BTW, I prefer bigoted and spreader of hate re the bigoted spreaders of hate about Muslims, rather than racist.

So far as I know, Islam is a religion, not a race.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:51 pm
Abu Graib was front page news of every U.S. and probably most European publications for months as well as featured on radio and TV news reports until they could get absolutely no additional mileage out of it. But then you have this story that has been virtually ignored or effectively buried to avoid giving it any more play than the MSM absolutely has to give it.

Look HERE and also HERE
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:55 pm
Considering how lil coverage that fella got to begin with, Foxfyre <McG already tried to lead a discussion down this path>, it's not surprising there's no coverage at the other end of it.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:57 pm
As far as terrorist attacks on the United States and elsewhere in the world, it is primarily militant Islamic extremists who are committing them. Muslim is not a race either--it is a follower of Islam.

McG did not indict all Muslims. He indicted Islamic extremists. The intellectually honest acknowledge that he is correct to do so.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:58 pm
Do you condemn Abu Ghraib, while we are casting moral nasturtiums, Fox?

Do you condemn your government's use of torture?

What about sending folk to be tortured in other countries that are expert at it?

Please do not send me to somewhere else which is worse...the fund of evil in the world seems inexhaustible...please give me a clear statement about your attitude to your own country's misbehaviour, if you consider it such.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:58 pm
dlowan wrote:
BTW, I prefer bigoted and spreader of hate re the bigoted spreaders of hate about Muslims, rather than racist.

So far as I know, Islam is a religion, not a race.


dead right ms bunny

and what is a religion if not a coda of ideas?

and what harm in challenging ideas?

sticks and stones....
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:59 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
As far as terrorist attacks on the United States and elsewhere in the world, it is primarily militant Islamic extremists who are committing them. Muslim is not a race either--it is a follower of Islam.

McG did not indict all Muslims. He indicted Islamic extremists. The intellectually honest acknowledge that he is correct to do so.


I think there's still a major difference between a religious "extremist" and a "terrorist". No?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 04:01 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
As far as terrorist attacks on the United States and elsewhere in the world, it is primarily militant Islamic extremists who are committing them. Muslim is not a race either--it is a follower of Islam.

McG did not indict all Muslims. He indicted Islamic extremists. The intellectually honest acknowledge that he is correct to do so.


Doh...and mothers are good.


Who has NOT condemned Islamic extremists? Only the worst of the right try to infer that progressives do not, and I do not think you are that. WERE you trying to infer that we do not condemn terrorists? (For what it is worth....I am sure they tremble in their boots every time we say it.....)

And who was talking about who McG did or did not condemn?

I, if you were addressing me, was addressing his specious argument. I have no particular idea if McG is one of the bigoted hate spreaders or not.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 04:03 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
dlowan wrote:
BTW, I prefer bigoted and spreader of hate re the bigoted spreaders of hate about Muslims, rather than racist.

So far as I know, Islam is a religion, not a race.


dead right ms bunny

and what is a religion if not a coda of ideas?

and what harm in challenging ideas?

sticks and stones....


Oh believe me Steve, I have no problem in challenging religious ideas.

I DO have a problem with labelling all Muslims as effectively subhuman, which some here do with great regularity.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 04:07 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Considering how lil coverage that fella got to begin with, Foxfyre <McG already tried to lead a discussion down this path>, it's not surprising there's no coverage at the other end of it.


Well most of the media stories--and they were everywhere--are now archived. But I wonder how many of the following will feel morally obligated to print the accurate information now?

http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/9316830p-10241546c.html

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/opin/pr_sjm.html

http://www.alternet.org/story/18730/

http://english.pravda.ru/accidents/21/93/375/12850_Iraq.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1208-01.htm

http://www.perspectives.com/forums/forum4/22750.html

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121004E.shtml

http://www.teenspot.com/boards/printthread.html?t=134260&s=c44c9a8cb2d7e3945c1400a3c374c36e

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1362377/posts
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 04:26 pm
damn
thought it said goat
bye
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 05:01 pm
dlowan wrote:
Lol! I had my post calling you what I think you are when you argue like this removed, Tico.


Really? It must've been yanked before I had the pleasure. I note your "What a heap of **** you talk, Tico," post remains.

dlowan wrote:
Suffice it to say that I believe your arguments on this matter to be waste material.


Yes, I know.

dlowan wrote:
Your "Dlowan believes it ok to lie under oath" is typical of the intellectually bankrupt arguments you and other far right people here often employ.


Well, since you have not yet gotten around to explaining what you meant to say when you said, "Oddly, I would defend even Bush for lying about such a matter," you allow the reasonable conclusion to be reached based upon your prior comments that you do indeed believe it to be "okay to lie under oath."

dlowan wrote:
You know, one criticizes the lies over which Iraq was invaded...this equals "You are a traitor"

One dares to point out the abuses being perpetrated by US troops on prisoners: "You dishonour the troops!" "Why do you hate America!" Terrorist!"


You really need to focus Deb, cause you're all over the map.

dlowan wrote:
You are especially bankrupt in this stuff, Tico, I do not believe I have ever heard you comment reasonably on these things, insted you attempt to derail threads discussing these serious matters with your "I hate Clinton" games.


Really, Ms. "What a heap of **** you talk, Tico"? You've never heard me comment reasonably? I've been commenting reasonably with anyone who wishes to discuss the issues. Even you, on the rare occasion you're able to focus your thoughts and form a cogent argument, rather than merely expressing your tedious Aussie indignation at the "odd" system the Americans have.

dlowan wrote:
We KNOW you hate Clinton. Try singing a new song, eh?


We know you hate Bush. YOU sing a different song.

dlowan wrote:
Thus, one disagrees with Tico, therefore one is morally bankrupt, supports lying under oath, farts in lifts, kicks canes out from blind people and steals candy from babies.


There you go losing focus again.

dlowan wrote:
I do not have the time to reproduce the post, nor do I much feel like bothering with you.


I don't care.

dlowan wrote:
As Blathan said, if you consider lying about consensual sex as less concerning than promoting torture (as Cheney is doing from his bunker as we speak), lying about reasons to invade another country, and running secret facilities in defiance of moral and US laws....so be it. I am a little stunned at your moral priorities...but there you go.


Although you now claim to not condone lying under oath, the question of what you meant earlier ("Oddly, I would defend even Bush for lying about such a matter") has yet to be answered. I still don't know if you think Clinton's sexual behavior was "wrong," or his lying under oath, or both. You said what he did was wrong, but you've yet to clarify.

Can you present a scintilla of evidence to support the preposterous claim you share with the rest of your anti-war, anti-Bush friends that Bush lied to get the US into the war with Iraq? No ... you can't prove it, you have no evidence other than your wild fantasies to support it, but that won't deter you from making the bold claim, will it?

dlowan wrote:
Since you asked, I do not approve of people lying under oath.


Then why did you say you would defend Bush if he lied under oath, under those same circumstances?

dlowan wrote:
Not that I expect truth to stop your comments, but nemmind.


You are given to say things which have no basis. This is a fine example.

Quote:
By the same token, I do take into account circumstances of the offence.


Okay. That is a mitigating explanation, not a justification.

dlowan wrote:
Hey, I even defended your nasty governator on threads when similar charges of sexual harassment came up about him when he was running for governator.


I don't live -- thank God -- in California. He's not my Governator.

dlowan wrote:
Clinton appeared in court re the accusations against him. Preesumably it was open for the judge/prosecutors to act re that matter when the lie came out...I gather they have not done so.


Clinton paid reasonably dearly for that lie.


He was found in contempt for the lie, he paid a hefty fine, he lost his license to practice law for a while. Clinton is an admitted liar. You get quite upset when I point this out. I suppose you will just have to deal with it.

dlowan wrote:
I know you have hit upon a reason why Clinton was asked about a sexual matter when there had been NO hint of sexual coercion, I still do not see it as appropriate to raise consensual adult sex in a trial about harassment. The thing stinks of political witch hunt.

You will disagree. So be it.


It isn't a simple matter of me disagreeing. The US Federal Judge disagreed with you. I can't help that you can't see around your belief that the questioning was a "political witch hunt" to discover the questions were perfectly legal, relevant, and required in order for the plaintiff to have full civil discovery of her justiciable claims.

dlowan wrote:
I disagree with your moral code, too.


And I disagree with yours ... does that bother you?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 06/24/2025 at 11:12:07