0
   

The Democrats Gloat Thread

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 06:13 am
Quote:
Most Popular Politics News

Most Emailed Politics News


DeLay to Make First Court Appearance
AP - 2 hours, 19 minutes ago
Sent 49 times

AUSTIN, Texas - Rep. Tom DeLay entered the criminal justice system by ducking reporters when he was booked on an arrest warrant, but he'll face a contingent of journalists and cameras at his first court appearance on money laundering and conspiracy charges.

White House Backs Ban on Some Abortions
AP - Thu Oct 20, 7:26 PM ET
Sent 21 times

SAN FRANCISCO - The Bush administration urged a federal appeals court Thursday to overturn a judge's decision nullifying a congressional ban on a type of late-term abortion.

Abuse Story Breaks at a Bad Time for Bush
AP - Thu Oct 20,10:14 PM ET
Sent 12 times

WASHINGTON - Allegations that U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan burned the bodies of Taliban fighters couldn't have come at a worse time for the Bush administration, already fighting legislation in Congress that would impose standards on the Pentagon's treatment of detainees.

Congress OKs Gun Industry Lawsuit Shield
AP - Thu Oct 20, 7:08 PM ET
Sent 12 times

WASHINGTON - Congress gave the gun lobby its top legislative priority Thursday, passing a bill protecting the firearms industry from massive crime-victim lawsuits. President Bush said he will sign it.

FEMA Official Says Boss Ignored Warnings
AP - Thu Oct 20,10:55 PM ET
Sent 11 times

WASHINGTON - In the midst of the chaos that followed Hurricane Katrina, a Federal Emergency Management Agency official in New Orleans sent a dire e-mail to Director Michael Brown saying victims had no food and were dying. No response came from Brown.

Bush to Help Open New Exhibit at Library
AP - 2 hours, 1 minute ago

LOS ANGELES - In a salute to Ronald Reagan, President Bush will help dedicate a new Air Force One exhibit at the former president's library, but his appearance at a GOP fundraiser while he's here has upset some California Republicans.

Possible cover-up a focus in CIA leak case: lawyers
Reuters - Fri Oct 21, 1:25 AM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Prosecutors investigating the outing of a covert CIA operative are focusing on whether top White House aides tried to conceal their involvement from investigators, lawyers involved the case said on Thursday.

Millionaire Senator Wins $853K in Lottery
AP - Thu Oct 20,10:14 PM ET

CONCORD, N.H. - You might not expect the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee to go around buying lottery tickets, but Sen. Judd Gregg is glad he did.

'Cheney-Rumsfeld cabal' hijacked US foreign policy: former Powell aide
AFP - Thu Oct 20, 7:01 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Former secretary of state Colin Powell's top aide has accused Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld of creating a "cabal" that has hijacked US foreign policy.

Rice hearing shows US Iraq policy still a work in progress
AFP - Thu Oct 20, 2:39 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - More than two and a half years after the invasion of Iraq, US policy is still a work in progress, with officials seeking a theme, an effective second act and, above all, an ending.

Most Viewed Politics News

Possible cover-up a focus in CIA leak case: lawyers
Reuters - Fri Oct 21, 1:25 AM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Prosecutors investigating the outing of a covert CIA operative are focusing on whether top White House aides tried to conceal their involvement from investigators, lawyers involved the case said on Thursday.

Quick Miers Hearings Unlikely for Senate
AP - Thu Oct 20, 6:12 PM ET

WASHINGTON - The Senate may find it tough to meet President Bush's timetable to confirm Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers, with lawmakers complaining anew Thursday about incomplete answers to their questions and demanding more information about her work for the president.

DeLay to Make First Court Appearance
AP - 2 hours, 19 minutes ago

AUSTIN, Texas - Rep. Tom DeLay entered the criminal justice system by ducking reporters when he was booked on an arrest warrant, but he'll face a contingent of journalists and cameras at his first court appearance on money laundering and conspiracy charges.

White House Defense Shaky in CIA Leak Case
AP - 2 hours, 54 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Even if White House aides leaked a covert CIA officer's identity, they were simply passing along information they'd already heard from the news media, the administration's supporters maintain in a defense that looks increasing shaky as new evidence accumulates.

Abuse Story Breaks at a Bad Time for Bush
AP - Thu Oct 20,10:14 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Allegations that U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan burned the bodies of Taliban fighters couldn't have come at a worse time for the Bush administration, already fighting legislation in Congress that would impose standards on the Pentagon's treatment of detainees.

Miers Firm Received Bush Campaign Payments
AP - Fri Oct 21, 3:41 AM ET

WASHINGTON - George W. Bush's rising political fortunes provided a windfall for Harriet Miers' law firm.

U.S., S. Korea Hail North's Nuclear Pledge
AP - 39 minutes ago

SEOUL, South Korea - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his South Korean counterpart on Friday hailed a promise by North Korea to abandon its nuclear program, but they also cited "causes of significant concern" in the North's continued development of long-range missiles.

FEMA Official Says Boss Ignored Warnings
AP - Thu Oct 20,10:55 PM ET

WASHINGTON - In the midst of the chaos that followed Hurricane Katrina, a Federal Emergency Management Agency official in New Orleans sent a dire e-mail to Director Michael Brown saying victims had no food and were dying. No response came from Brown.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 06:24 am
AIR AMERICA: FROM BAD TO NON-EXISTENT

Air America, the liberal talk network carried on WWRC-AM (1260), went from bad to nonexistent. After WWRC recorded a mere fraction of a rating point in the spring with syndicated shows from the likes of lefty talkers Al Franken, Janeane Garofalo and Stephanie Miller, Arbitron couldn't detect a measurable listenership for the station this time around.

And.........

Al Franken's ratings plunge 35% from a year ago.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 06:37 am
nimh wrote:
J.W., if you dont think the impopularity of a Republican President and his Republican administration is going to effect the popularity of the Republican Party adversely, then dream on...


nimh - I realize you don't live here and so perhaps aren't aware of the in-fighting and chaos that is the Democratic party these days, but no...I really don't think Bush's poll numbers will affect the rest of the party all that much. Some marginal gains, perhaps, but thassit.

You see, the Dems have nothing...have offered nothing...and even those within the party are lamenting that fact.

When I first saw this thread I was encouraged that I'd see some gloating over accomplishments (that plus hoping the spammers would abandon the Bush supporters' thread in favor of this one). But I see now that the only thing the Democrats have to gloat about is Bush's falling numbers. I guess that would be significant if he was seeking a third term, but, alas, the law of the land prohibits that. Dang!!!

PS I see that Fox News is now in the Netherlands Smile Smile Smile

Enjoy!!!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 06:47 am
Watching the news again night (and these days, I'm watching PBS at 6, then bouncing around between MSNBC and CNN for two hours, while making room in there for Stewart) it suddenly struck me what a sea change has occured in the last few weeks.

The major news channel broadcasts now have as their content (perhaps up to 75%) stories constituting negative coverage of the administration. Even one month ago, I'd doubt that statistic would have been 25%, and earlier, generally, it was much less (PBS is a clear exception, with topics having a range far broader than White House troubles).

Not only is the content filled up with negatives, but another element which is now highly notable is the decreasing appearances of right wing media machine pundits/commentators. There certainly are the predictable reps from Heritage etc, but far fewer of them. And now, they are playing serious defense.

And THAT is a huge change too. This administration's PR strategy had always been to 1) fill up the news vacuum with THEIR preferred stories and content, and 2) to immediately attack everything negative in the attempt to overwhelm, discredit, and eventually to silence. And they were bloody good at it - the 30 year investment of time and lotsa money to create conservative-only think tanks and media outlets and 'trained' pundits a la Coulter had been hugely successful.

So, what has happened? I think we can set one abrupt marker with the Katrina debacle. Consider how remarkable it was at the time (mere weeks ago!!) how media figures stepped out of their normal submissive stance and began shouting about incompetence and poverty. Many of us here, and many in the media, remarked on how refreshing this change from the standard pandering was.

Also, of course, the confluence of legal and corruption problems for the White House, DeLay, Frist, Abrahmson and connected figures, Ney in Ohio, etc., all coming into view.

Then the Miers nomination, which set two powerful conservative contingents against each other, vocally and seriously and out in the open. More importantly perhaps, it set both of these camps against the Bush administration seriously and openly.

There's much else too, as we all know...the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with their inevitable losses of life and incompetent management particularly, but also the vast flow of money out of the country, the growing awareness that the administration was deceitful re Iraq and repugnantly vote-grubbing re Shiavo, the rise in gas prices seems a likely factor, the undeniable loss of American prestige around the world and popular unease with this administration's international strategies and ideologies (the Bolton appointment fits in here too), and the common problems associated with a second term.

If anything ties all these together, it is the meglomaniacal hubris of this administration, the sort of hubris that comes from radical ideology. It's a cliche now to say that so much of what is going poorly for the administration and its supporters are really just things coming home to roost, but it is the case.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 06:48 am
ps... meant to add...

Joan Didion's "Political Fictions" describes in wonderful detail how, when a story of group of linked stories gain momentum in the press/media, there is something rather like a shark-feeding frenzy that begins. Something like that is surely at work as well.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 07:35 am
blatham - I'm curious to know if you realize that the poll numbers for the Democrat congressional leadership is an embarrassing 32% approval rating (29% approval for Congress as a whole).

This begs the question - do you think that the negative press will result in a mass exodus to the Democrats? Have the Democrats provided viable alternatives on the key issues of the economy, high energy prices or Iraq? (Note I said viable).

Intuition tells me otherwise, but perhaps you will let us in on your predictions. If the elections were next month, I'd say we might have a bit to worry about. It's not. We have another year and things aren't as bleak as they seem.

62% think Miers should (and will) be confirmed, gas prices will probably go lower, and if Dubya takes a strong stance on immigration his numbers will rise.

I ask in the nicest possible way ... are you sure all this negativity from the press will boost the Dems into power?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 07:37 am
Balanced comment, BL.

I have noticed too the same thing writ small here: most of the thoughtful right-wingers on these threads, and also those who brayed their support for the Bush line loudest and longest, flying in the face of so much opposing information, now are largely absent, and the comment, such as it is, more muted.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 07:49 am
PS...all those Democrats convicted of voter fraud in St. Louis will be sentenced next week with more indictments and convictions likely.

Of course, these hard news facts won't make the evening news or MSM headlines. They're too busy trying Tom Delay and spreading false rumors.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 08:07 am
Those who gloat over falling poll numbers and who practically fall over themselves in glee to post anything negative about the current US administration, are still not finding anything at all positive to post about the Democrats. This is what is telling. JW is right. This is not a Democrat gloat thread. This is just another Bush bashing thread.

What the poll numbers also show is that the GOP base is hanging in there with them pretty well. Even those who give the current administration an 'unsatisfactory' due to increased spending or disapointment over a Harriett Miers, are not about to vote for a leftwing liberal Democrat who emulates everything they despise in governance. Conversative principles have not changed, but no conservative is going to please everybody all the time. One cannot extrapolate an 'unsatisfactory' this week or last week into an assumption the person would vote for a John Kerry over a George Bush.

The current administration has hit a bad patch. It is still three years away from the next presidential election. A lot can happen in that length of time.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 08:17 am
JustWonders wrote:
When I first saw this thread I was encouraged that I'd see some gloating over accomplishments. But I see now that the only thing the Democrats have to gloat about is Bush's falling numbers.

Thats rich from a Bush supporter whose only remaining defensive schtick appears to be that the Democrats are (doing) worse, still...

JustWonders wrote:
I guess that would be significant if he was seeking a third term, but, alas, the law of the land prohibits that. Dang!!!

Well, the last state-by-state ranking I saw for Senators didnt look too good for the incumbent Republicans, either.. the six least popular Senators were each and all Republicans.

Elections up next year, no?

JustWonders wrote:
PS I see that Fox News is now in the Netherlands Smile Smile Smile

Luckily, I dont live there anymore...

Did ya know that the leftwing parties - the real ones I mean, Labour, Greens and Socialists, not even including the liberal Democrats - are polling over 50% in the Netherlands now? Historically unprecedented, not once in the 20th century did that happen...

The Fortuynists, meanwhile, have fallen to 1% (List Fortuyn) and 2% (Geert Wilders), respectively, while the right-wing liberals with their free market policies and iron lady immigration minister are struggling at 15%...

Its not just over there that the polls spell bad news for the right; either place, they're gonna need Fox News... ;-)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 08:21 am
nimh wrote:
Thats rich from a Bush supporter whose only remaining defensive schtick appears to be that the Democrats are (doing) worse, still...

Two of those here even, it seems...
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 08:41 am
JustWonders wrote:
blatham - I'm curious to know if you realize that the poll numbers for the Democrat congressional leadership is an embarrassing 32% approval rating (29% approval for Congress as a whole).

This begs the question - do you think that the negative press will result in a mass exodus to the Democrats? Have the Democrats provided viable alternatives on the key issues of the economy, high energy prices or Iraq? (Note I said viable).

Intuition tells me otherwise, but perhaps you will let us in on your predictions. If the elections were next month, I'd say we might have a bit to worry about. It's not. We have another year and things aren't as bleak as they seem.

62% think Miers should (and will) be confirmed, gas prices will probably go lower, and if Dubya takes a strong stance on immigration his numbers will rise.

I ask in the nicest possible way ... are you sure all this negativity from the press will boost the Dems into power?


Your mannerly question deserves a thoughtful and honest answer.

I'm not sure, frankly, that you'll perceive any Dem platform as viable whether or not it is (electorally or practically) so that presents a problem right off. But if we are speaking electorally, it probably doesn't matter what the out party might say or plan if the in party is perceived to be floundering or incompetent or corrupt (or some multiple of those options). David Gergen was on one show last night. Now he's a Republican (moderate, surely) who I deeply respect and listen to for his take on things. He used the phrase, to describe what is happening to this white house, as "the wheels have come off". That's pretty much the picture everyone has, even guys like Kristol.

This is a volatile time. If indictments come down on Rove and/or Libby and perhaps others, it's hard to imagine how this administration will recover. Reagan managed it, but this president is (you get honesty here) a serious incompetent not comparable to Reagan in intelligence or skills. He'll have effective people around, but many of them are now deeply colored towards the negative too. What Bush will have to do is clean house very thoroughly and I don't think he is up to that task.

On the other hand, if no indictments come down (because this story has gained such an acute importance), then at least for some time, the left will be deeply depressed and ineffective. Hard to know how that will play out given the other negatives Bush has in front of him.

But in any scenario that doesn't include another terrorist attack, or a big dive in the economy, or Bush getting seen drunk, or Miers folding and some person clearly radical appointed with the nuke option then engaged with unknown consequences, etc...then there won't be any massive shift of voters. But a massive shift isn't needed for Republicans to lose power in either house or the Presidency.

The shift in media tone, from subservient and fearful, to something more challenging and aggressive is now, I think for sure, here to stay. That's a very good thing regardless of which party is in power. Journalists have to be careful to be honest and thorough and as free of bias as their job description and traditions insist, but they cannot function as a mouthpiece for the powerful (regardless of who) for the US to retain a real democracy. How much this shift in tone will change the electorate's mind is uncertain, because of everything else that is up in the air.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 08:46 am
Quote:
The Fortuynists, meanwhile, have fallen to 1% (List Fortuyn)


My heart soars like an eagle.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 08:48 am
Quote:
The Fortuynists, meanwhile, have fallen to 1% (List Fortuyn)


My heart soars like an eagle.


ps to JW...on the immigration matter. You suggest Bush's numbers will go up if he is strong on this issue. The problem for him is how the hell to do this when, at the same time, trying to pull that same huge demographic into his camp. Not an easy trick. And, further, it risks the civil consequences of fomenting further division in the population at large - white versus chicano. If these guys haven't figured out yet that such a strategy is destructive to the overall good of the nation, then they really ought to be taken out back and shot.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 08:52 am
Mr President, we can't hear you, there is an elephant dominating the room.
Elephant you say? I don't see an elephant, in fact I don't see anything, there must be an elephant blocking your view, my view is completely clear.
Thank you Mr President, should the press clean up after the elephant or would you prefer the Supreme Court do it?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 09:02 am
For those of us watching not just the events presently, but also the PR moves associated, it's been for a while now a very interesting question as to how the right might counter the consequences of Fitzgerald indictments. Victoria Toensig, for example, began a couple of weeks ago voicing the "Fitzgerald has a very narrow mandate and the danger is that he'll over-extend his investigation in a manner that is inappropriate and even illegal" or words to that effect.

Lately, this line seems to be amalgamated with the PR campaign coming from or related to DeLay..."Everyone in politics does this sort of thing. What we are seeing here is the partisan criminalization of politics." (In the piece below, I'll note in red a wonderful example of the use of passive voice that this writer picks up on)

Quote:
Suddenly, it's a vast left-wing conspiracy
I'VE BEEN waiting for quite a while now for conservatives to come up with a theory to explain why large chunks of the Republican Party are, or soon will be, under indictment. The argument I've been anticipating has finally arrived, in the form of a long lead editorial in the latest edition of the influential conservative magazine the Weekly Standard.

The editorial, written by Standard Editor William Kristol and longtime conservative activist Jeffrey Bell, begins by acknowledging the uncomfortable fact that "the most prominent promoters of the conservative agenda of the Bush administration" are facing legal troubles of one kind or another. It cites the legal imbroglios of Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Tom DeLay and Bill Frist. It neglects to mention David Safavian, the chief of staff at the General Services Administration in the Bush administration; conservative activist/superlobbyists Jack Abramoff and Michael Scanlon; and Reps. Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-Rancho Santa Fe) and Robert W. Ney (R-Ohio), and perhaps some others I'm forgetting.

Anyway, one conclusion you could draw from all these examples is that the Republican Party has gotten a bit corrupt. The Standard does not, however, draw this conclusion. Another possibility is that it's all just a coincidence. The Standard doesn't conclude that, either. Instead, the editorial declares, "a comprehensive strategy of criminalization had been implemented to inflict defeat on conservatives who seek to govern as conservatives."

The wording here is instructive. The authors have obviously chosen to use the passive voice to avoid having to spell out just who has implemented this comprehensive strategy of criminalization. That's because answering that question would expose just how silly their theory is.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chait21oct21,0,1393843.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 09:52 am
blatham - thanks for the reply. I'm short on time, but just wanted to say I agree with you on the immigration "catch 22". He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, but I think he and I think somewhat alike on the problem, in that we'd both let them all in if we had our way. One approach he might take is to implore those immigrants that are here legally to speak out...some already are.

As for the rest of it, I guess we'll have to just wait and see. I'm optimistic that whatever happens, good always wills out.

nimh - Tit for tat is merely human nature. You're a bright young man, so surely all those hours scouring the net can yield some really gloat-worthy news for the Dems Smile I hope so. I think we really need a strong two-party system in this country and the downward spiral seen in the opposition party bodes well for no one.

Sorry you won't be able to catch Fox & Friends. They're hilarious and not nearly as partisan as you'd think.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 10:26 pm
JustWonders wrote:
let them [immigrants] all in....

Just curious. What is your stance on the minimum wage?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2005 10:30 pm
Who's going to pay for all of their education, medical care, housing and food? Just a minor thing that must be considered when our schools are already short of funds, our hospitals going broke, and our inability to care for Americans as a result of the war in Iraq and the storms that devastated several cities in the south.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 12:10 am
Amigo wrote:
" We the civilized sane must destroy the ugly demented brutes who are trying to destroy us, If you do not see it I and God will see it for you". The Third Reich believed themselves to be the civilized sane. The rest of the world didn't. Then the time came when most of there own country didn't believe them either. What other groups of people call themselves the civilized sane? does it matter? There all nuts. We are sane and civilized. they paint themselves into a corner.


Blah blah blah...have another scotch!
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 3.5 seconds on 06/09/2025 at 10:10:29