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The Democrats Gloat Thread

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 09:30 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
glitterbag wrote:
I intend to work to get Hilary nominated.....

.....because I would like to see a stake driven through the vampiric Clinton heart.


Clinton did more good in the first two years of his first term than Bush Jr has done to date-and the prognosis for Bush is not good.

Peace, Prosperity-We got it from Clinton. We aren't getting it-and will not get it-from Bush Jr.

Take a look at the deficit. Note how Alan Greenspan is only effective when he has Clinton to work with.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/kelticwizard100/GreenspanDeficitB.jpg

And here is the unemployment picture. Once again, the difference between Clinton and Bush Jr is obvous-and all in Clinton's favor.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/kelticwizard100/BUnemploymentRateGreenspansTenure.gif

"Vampiric heart" indeed. Clinton is clearly the superior leader. The constant attempts to run down Bill Clinton are the responses of desperate Bush followers trying to save the rep of their fast sinking GOP leader. Things are catching up with Bush-and it looks like he has even rougher times ahead.


I'm not running down Slick Willy, I'm running down his wife, but fierce loyalty such as yours, no matter how misplaced, is good to see. Too bad you can't have such a resolute sense of loyalty for your nation.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 09:44 pm
glitterbag wrote:
Keltic, that last quote you used is not from something I said, sounds like some of Finn's...


You are correct, my apologies. The quote was from Finn. It was from one of those quote within a quote within a quote posts, and I crossed out the wrong author. Sorry.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Oct, 2005 10:39 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I'm not running down Slick Willy, I'm running down his wife, but fierce loyalty such as yours, no matter how misplaced, is good to see. Too bad you can't have such a resolute sense of loyalty for your nation.


Who are you to say I have no sense of loyalty to this nation? I have a deep sense of loyalty to this nation, I'll have you know, which is why I spend some time each day shredding the pitiful excuses of Bush apologists for the damage this man is doing to the country.

Sorry for the charts which didn't appear in the previous post. Apparently I need to change my image hosting service.

I am surprised the Right is now maintaining that Hillary cannot take any credit for her husband's success as president. It is the Right, after all, who kept referring to the Clinton administration as the "co-presidency". Now, years later, the Right has decided one of the members of the so-called "co-presidency" has no right to take credit for that administration's accomplishments. How typical.

There is no question that the last few months have made clear, to all but the most partisan Bush apologists, that we are being led by people who simply are not up to the job. From Bush's five week vacation while the Iraq situation worsens by the day, to his inability to respond meaningfully to a grieving mother of an Iraq casualty, to his cavalier attitude toward New Orleans with such calamitous consequences, we increasingly see an administration that is not leading the nation toward a vision, but instead is lurching from one debacle to another. The harpies on talk radio can chatter al they want. The incompetence of this administration has been laid bare, and all can see who have the courage to look.

Before the country can get on the right track, it is necessary to examine how we got on the wrong one in the first place. As a loyal American, it is therefore my right, if not my duty, to illustrate that the path we are on is not the path we should be on if we want to remain the world's great power.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Oct, 2005 08:30 am
Well, Finn is more confused than I originally thought. My loyalty is not to politicians, but to the government to which I swore an oath. But go ahead Finn, make up stuff, it's amusing.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2005 08:48 am
Moveon.org will no doubt be inflamed by these findings and ignore them. How many more decades will pass, do y'all think, before they decide to "get it"? Smile

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Report Warns Democrats Not to Tilt Too Far Left

By Thomas B. Edsall
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 7, 2005; A07

The liberals' hope that Democrats can win back the presidency by drawing sharp ideological contrasts and energizing the partisan base is a fantasy that could cripple the party's efforts to return to power, according to a new study by two prominent Democratic analysts.

In the latest shot in a long-running war over the party's direction -- an argument turned more passionate after Democrat John F. Kerry's loss to President Bush last year -- two intellectuals who have been aligned with former president Bill Clinton warn that the only way back to victory is down the center.

Democrats must "admit that they cannot simply grow themselves out of their electoral dilemmas," wrote William A. Galston and Elaine C. Kamarck, in a report released yesterday. "The groups that were supposed to constitute the new Democratic majority in 2004 simply failed to materialize in sufficient number to overcome the right-center coalition of the Republican Party."

Since Kerry's defeat, some Democrats have urged that the party adopt a political strategy more like one pursued by Bush and his senior adviser, Karl Rove -- which emphasized robust turnout of the party base rather than relentless, Clinton-style tending to "swing voters."

But Galston and Kamarck, both of whom served in the Clinton White House, said there are simply not enough left-leaning voters to make this a workable strategy. In one of their more potentially controversial findings, the authors argue that the rising numbers and influence of well-educated, socially liberal voters in the Democratic Party are pulling the party further from most Americans.

On defense and social issues, "liberals espouse views diverging not only from those of other Democrats, but from Americans as a whole. To the extent that liberals now constitute both the largest bloc within the Democratic coalition and the public face of the party, Democratic candidates for national office will be running uphill."

Galston and Kamarck -- whose work was sponsored by Third Way, a group working with Senate Democrats on centrist policy ideas -- are critical of three other core liberal arguments:



· They warn against overreliance on a strategy of solving political problems by "reframing" the language by which they present their ideas, as advocated by linguist George Lakoff of the University of California at Berkeley: "The best rhetoric will fail if the public rejects the substance of a candidate's agenda or entertains doubts about his integrity."



· They say liberals who count on rising numbers of Hispanic voters fail to recognize the growing strength of the GOP among Hispanics, as well as the growing weakness of Democrats with white Catholics and married women.



· They contend that Democrats who hope the party's relative advantages on health care and education can vault them back to power "fail the test of political reality in the post-9/11 world." Security issues have become "threshold" questions for many voters, and cultural issues have become "a prism of candidates' individual character and family life," Galston and Kamarck argue.

Their basic thesis is that the number of solidly conservative Republican voters is substantially larger that the reliably Democratic liberal voter base. To win, the argument goes, Democrats must make much larger inroads among moderates than the GOP.

Galston, a professor of public policy at the University of Maryland, and Kamarck, a lecturer at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, in 1989 wrote the influential paper, "The Politics of Evasion," which helped set the stage for Clinton's presidential bid and the prominent role of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. In some ways, the report released yesterday showed how difficult the debate is to resolve.

Their recommendations are much less specific than their detailed analysis of the difficulties facing the Democratic Party.

They suggest that Democratic presidential candidates replicate Clinton's tactics in 1992, when he broke with the party's liberal base by approving the execution of a semi-retarded prisoner, by challenging liberal icon Jesse L. Jackson and by calling for an end to welfare "as we know it."
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2005 08:51 am
Quote:
he groups that were supposed to constitute the new Democratic majority in 2004 simply failed to materialize in sufficient number to overcome the right-center coalition of the Republican Party.


Ah, but the new left-center coalition that Bush is rapidly forming should do quite nicely. I don't rely on the DLC to tell me how the party should be run; they are in corporate pockets all the way...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Oct, 2005 08:56 am
Quote:
Their recommendations are much less specific than their detailed analysis of the difficulties facing the Democratic Party.


Judging from Cyclops' reply, they're not alone Smile
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 10:23 am
kelticwizard wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I'm not running down Slick Willy, I'm running down his wife, but fierce loyalty such as yours, no matter how misplaced, is good to see. Too bad you can't have such a resolute sense of loyalty for your nation.


Who are you to say I have no sense of loyalty to this nation? I have a deep sense of loyalty to this nation, I'll have you know, which is why I spend some time each day shredding the pitiful excuses of Bush apologists for the damage this man is doing to the country.

Sorry for the charts which didn't appear in the previous post. Apparently I need to change my image hosting service.

I am surprised the Right is now maintaining that Hillary cannot take any credit for her husband's success as president. It is the Right, after all, who kept referring to the Clinton administration as the "co-presidency". Now, years later, the Right has decided one of the members of the so-called "co-presidency" has no right to take credit for that administration's accomplishments. How typical.

There is no question that the last few months have made clear, to all but the most partisan Bush apologists, that we are being led by people who simply are not up to the job. From Bush's five week vacation while the Iraq situation worsens by the day, to his inability to respond meaningfully to a grieving mother of an Iraq casualty, to his cavalier attitude toward New Orleans with such calamitous consequences, we increasingly see an administration that is not leading the nation toward a vision, but instead is lurching from one debacle to another. The harpies on talk radio can chatter al they want. The incompetence of this administration has been laid bare, and all can see who have the courage to look.

Before the country can get on the right track, it is necessary to examine how we got on the wrong one in the first place. As a loyal American, it is therefore my right, if not my duty, to illustrate that the path we are on is not the path we should be on if we want to remain the world's great power.


I didn't say you have no sense of loyalty to this nation. I said it is too bad that your sense of loyalty to this nation is not as resolute as your sense of loyalty to the Clintons.

"My political heroes right or wrong!"
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 10:30 am
If our sense of loyalty to this nation was absolute, how many republicans would still be a supporter of Bush Jr?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 10:33 am
c.i.
cicerone imposter wrote:
If our sense of loyalty to this nation was absolute, how many republicans would still be a supporter of Bush Jr?


Good question, c.i. that I've been asking the chauvinists for a long time. Never received an answer.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 01:17 pm
If your loyalty to this nation is absolute you can't support Bush Jr. These die hard Bush lovers are like Nazis. There! I said it. You know well all thinking it. If they could have it there way we would all be "disappeared". Am I right or am I right.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 02:01 pm
Amigo wrote:
These die hard Bush lovers are like Nazis... There! I said it. You know well all thinking it.

Yes. We knew you were.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 04:11 pm
Lash wrote:
Amigo wrote:
These die hard Bush lovers are like Nazis... There! I said it. You know well all thinking it.

Yes. We knew you were.
'and we don't care' (you didn't finish)
0 Replies
 
Kratos
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 08:50 pm
I'm not just saying any of this because of 20/20 hindsight; this is all stuff I predicted would occur following the specific event.

I remembered telling my guildmates in a MMORPG how the country was going to go back to the bloated, idiotic fiscal policies of the Reagan-Bush voodoo economics era in 2000 when Bush got elected and how we'd be back to massive deficit spending in no time. I also predicted that letting a damn Texas oilman run the country is going to promote corporate cronyism of the worst kind since Harding. We all know how these panned out.

At the time of 9-11, while everyone else was still shell-shocked about the event, I was already saying that monkey boy is going to milk it for all the political capital it's worth. I of course had no idea what it would be at the time, but we all know exactly what it turned out to be.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 10:16 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I didn't say you have no sense of loyalty to this nation. I said it is too bad that your sense of loyalty to this nation is not as resolute as your sense of loyalty to the Clintons.

"My political heroes right or wrong!"


My sense of loyalty to this nation is quite resolute, which is why I am compelled to illustrate to my fellow Americans, via facts and charts, that our great nation has been headed downhill ever since Bush took office. In fact, the charts clarly illustrate that when a Bush is in office, (father or son), the nation is in trouble.

Consider my posts a public service to America.

Or are you now trying to say that it is a mark of questionable loyalty to compare the present resident of the White House with his predecessor?

I am not surprised that all you can come up with his a personal attack upon my patriotism, Finn. There are, after all, precious few facts that Bush defenders can call upon to support their man. That is why things began turning bad in this country ever since Bush took over.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 10:23 pm
Kratos wrote:
I remembered telling.....how the country was going to go back to the bloated, idiotic fiscal policies of the Reagan-Bush voodoo economics era in 2000 when Bush got elected and how we'd be back to massive deficit spending in no time.


Well, let's look at the record to see how that turned out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/kelticwizard100/GreenspanDeficitB.jpg


And while we are at it, let's take a look at the unemployment rate since 1988:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/kelticwizard100/BUnemploymentRateGreenspansTenure.gif

For all the bragging about how well the unemployment rate is coming down, it is still significantly higher than the rate Clinton left Bush II with .

Caution: posting or, presumably, reading these charts opens one up to charges from desperate Bush loyalists that you have a greater loyalty to Clinton than America.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:17 am
KW: When you quoted Kratos, why did you leave out the part where he tells us about remembering telling his fellow "guildmates in a MMORPG"? That was the best part.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:56 am
That's because I didn't know what guildmates in a MMORPG are.

I know that some of your older unions call themselves guilds. I figured that he said these things at a bricklayers' union meeting or something.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 10:21 am
kelticwizard wrote:
That's because I didn't know what guildmates in a MMORPG are.

I know that some of your older unions call themselves guilds. I figured that he said these things at a bricklayers' union meeting or something.


Laughing Good guess. Wrong .... but good guess.


Quote:
A massively (or massive) multiplayer online role-playing game or MMORPG is a multiplayer computer role-playing game that enables thousands of players to play in an evolving virtual world at the same time over the Internet. MMORPGs are a specific type of massively multiplayer online game (MMOG).


SOURCE

I think "guildmates" are fellow gamers, also playing whatever game he was playing. Maybe he was trying to rule the world at the time?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 11:11 am
There's no reason to denigrate someone just because they play a game online.

Besides, I'd much rather get back to the original point of the thread: Gloating.

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2005/10/1

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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