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The Democrats Gloat Thread

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 08:57 pm
The feds already approved a budget with a $400 billion deficit for the current fiscal year. Add to that the cost of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the $200 billiion for New Orleans, and Bush says they're gonna cut their spending. ROFLMAO
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 09:10 pm
It does say there were only 11 by January--don't know how many since--but, they're not selling me the "single press conference" thing. He's had many other press conferences--just not in the format the press desires.

It tickled me--the comment he made to the reporter-- "You're not in the checks and balances system." He's right. The press doesn't represent the people--as they think they do. Elections represent the people.

They continue to have an inflated self-image.

But, I did enjoy the articles.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 09:12 pm
Again, cool.

It seems to answer your question pretty well about how he stacks up to previous presidents, though, especially since it's specifically in terms of a similar time period.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 09:19 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Okay, I'll be honest. How the fxxx do you think our government is going to cut $200 billion from the current budget to pay for Katrina?


Do you know how much Humanitarian Aid we dole out every year?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 10:13 pm
Why don't you tell us.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 08:49 am
Lash wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Okay, I'll be honest. How the fxxx do you think our government is going to cut $200 billion from the current budget to pay for Katrina?


Do you know how much Humanitarian Aid we dole out every year?

Ten billion dollars, or one-twentieth of the $200 billion needed for the Katrina cleanup. Source: US Census Bureau:Statistical Abstract of the United States (2005), Table 465: "Federal Outlays by Detailed Function". (PDF here)
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 09:06 am
sozobe wrote:
But why doesn't Bush do MORE press conferences? Off-the-cuff ones, not reading from a teleprompter? He can "tone up" all he wants beforehand, if he answers the questions, and if real questions are answered. I think all of those things are healthy for a Democracy. (Toning, asking, answering.)

I'd like to emphasize this with a Republican counterexample that shouldn't increase the partisan divide in this thread. In the 1960s, when Ronald Reagan ran for governor of California, there was a perception that he wasn't his own man; a puppet of the big business lobby, politically incompetent, incapable of independent thinking. (Reagan had done PR for General Electric before that, which I guess is where this perception came from.) To counter this perception, Reagan radically changed the format of his press conferences. He would cut the customary speech at the beginning to a minimum -- I think ten minutes in a one hour press conference. The other fifty minutes, he would take any question from the journalists, whom he encouraged to be tough. By taking and answering hard questions in a setting where nobody could possibly pull his strings, he established that his message was really his, and that he was really his own man. This didn't solve all of Reagan's problems; many people continued to have serious misgivings about the content of his policies. But the whole 'puppet' business petered out within only a few years and never came back.

Independent of whether the Democrats or the Republicans have the better policies, trust-building measures like Reagan's are important, and sorely lacking in the Bush presidency.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 10:28 am
Lash wrote:
sozobe wrote:
But why doesn't Bush do MORE press conferences?

Does anyone know the number of press conferences that is normal--? How does his number compare?

"Bush has held only eleven solo press conferences [..] Over a comparable period, his father held seventy-one and Bill Clinton thirty-eight." Thanks for that, Soz.

Lash wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Off-the-cuff ones, not reading from a teleprompter?

And, is he now supposed to be a showman? What other president has done this? If ANY, how often? Who has set such a standard that anyone even suggests this?.

Reagan, apparently, for one, lots of times - a thank you to Thomas too.

Good to see facts. Wanted to acknowledge them in case nobody else does.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 10:42 am
Thomas wrote:
Independent of whether the Democrats or the Republicans have the better policies, trust-building measures like Reagan's are important, and sorely lacking in the Bush presidency.



Thanks for the whole section there, Thomas. I'd extend that "sorely lacking" to American politics, not just the Bush presidency. The few times that U.S. politicians go outside prepared sound bites these days, it seems that people/reporters don't know what to make of it. I blame the media business in the U.S. for that - they seem to want/prefer sound bites - not full responses to real questions. It's frustrating to observe.

It simply isn't acceptable in a lot of other western countries. We still have full body-press scrums here - pushing and shoving - by the media and the politicians - inappropriate questions and answers. I think it's important to see how people who want to be our leaders react when they don't have time to prepare a response/reaction.

If they can't handle unscripted interviews, the thought of what they're doing in real emergencies is horrifying.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 01:00 pm
nimh wrote:
Lash wrote:
sozobe wrote:
But why doesn't Bush do MORE press conferences?

Does anyone know the number of press conferences that is normal--? How does his number compare?

"Bush has held only eleven solo press conferences [..] Over a comparable period, his father held seventy-one and Bill Clinton thirty-eight." Thanks for that, Soz.

He has held many more press conferences than 11. Just only 11 of the format seemingly preferred by the libs here and in the media.
Lash wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Off-the-cuff ones, not reading from a teleprompter?

And, is he now supposed to be a showman? What other president has done this? If ANY, how often? Who has set such a standard that anyone even suggests this?.

Reagan, apparently, for one, lots of times - a thank you to Thomas too.
I'm sure Reagan got great credit for this ability....oh no, that's right. He was criticised for being all fluff and an actor who could manipulate the cameras.

Well. Bush isn't a showman. Neither was Carter. Neither was Lincoln. And?
Good to see facts. Wanted to acknowledge them in case nobody else does.

They were partial facts. I was happy to complete them for you. You don't even have to acknowledge it. I know you appreciate the unadulterated truth.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 03:16 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Independent of whether the Democrats or the Republicans have the better policies, trust-building measures like Reagan's are important, and sorely lacking in the Bush presidency.



Thanks for the whole section there, Thomas. Id extend that "sorely lacking" to American politics, not just the Bush presidency. The few times that UA.SA. politicians go outside prepared sound bites these days, it seems that people/reporters don't know what to make of it. I blame the media business in the UA.SA. for that - they seem to want/prefer sound bites - not full responses to real questions. It's frustrating to observe.

It simply isn't acceptable in a lot of other western countries. We still have full body-press scrums here - pushing and shoving - by the media and the politicians - inappropriate questions and answers. I think it's important to see how people who want to be our leaders react when they don't have time to prepare a response/reaction.

If they can't handle unscripted interviews, the thought of what they're doing in real emergencies is horrifying.


Iamb not sure that being able to answer aggressive questions on the fly is such a crucial characteristic for a leader, or in any way indicative of how that person acts in a crisis. It is, undoubtedly, a stressful situation, and we do want our leaders to be able to handle themselves under stress, but is it the sort of stressful situation they are ever likely to face while acting in the role of president?

In any case, I would argue that any person who can simply maintain their composure and not either blow or freeze up during one of these sessions has evidenced a rare ability to perform under stress.

I have met any number of people over my life who are amazingly adept at answering tough questions, but at the same time are utterly lazy or incompetent when it comes to getting the job done. I call them Alchemists because they have found a way to turn sh*ta into gold.

While it is true that the better one knows a given subject, the better prepared one will be to answer tough questions, but do we really expect a single person to know so much about everything in the country and the world that he or she can field aggressive questions (many intended to set the person up) with an aplomb derived from comprehensive knowledge?

The stakes of the modern press conference are amazingly high for the president. Almost every reporter in attendance is trying to make the news by asking a question which will illicit a controversial or stupid answer. These sessions are not a way for the American people to learn about what the president thinks or is doing, they are a way for the hounds of the press to bait the presidential bear in his den.

It might be argued that if a president gave frequent press conferences, the sharpness of the press questioning might be blunted. Reporters wouldn't feel that they had only one shot at making the news. Iamb sure there's some truth to this, but at this juncture I don't think we're going to see a president who is willing to take the chance.

A person who is quick on his or her feet, and both eloquent and witty in their responses to tough questions is attractive, and certainly talented, but how important are those traits to a president.?

And let's be fair, are the ones who we all can agree perform well during press conferences doing so because they are providing meaningful answers to the questions or because they appear at ease and even in charge, all the while providing answers that dodge the questions?

The president and the members of his administration need to know that they will be subject to questioning, but I just don't know that the modern press conference is the best forum.

Perhaps a forum such as utilized in the UK where the Prime Minister takes questions from members of Parliament. Of course these sessions are more politicized than press conferences, and again, reward, the glib over the thoughtful. They're great to watch, but I don't know if anyone learns anything new from them and it's clear that the PM must spend an incredible amount of time preparing for them.

Just as television revolutionized the journalistic questioning of presidents, perhaps the internet can be a similar force, except that in such a forum anyone might be able to ask a question.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 04:58 pm
All well and good, but when the president appoints a horse show manager to head FEMA, you've got to wonder how competent either one is. On a scale of 1 to 10, I rate both about a minus 1,000 - and that's being generous. Lives are at stake, and both have ignored the safety of all Americans.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2005 03:30 pm
This fake "scripted" criticism has worn thin.

Wonder how many lawyers poured over the strategic positioning of verbs and modifiers for Bill Clinton?

THEY ALL RESEARCH POSSIBLE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS TO EVERYTHING.

Everything done in Washington is scripted, and has been since JFK.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2005 03:53 pm
Sure, they script as much as they can.

Other leaders have felt confident enough in their ability to articulate and think for themselves to risk a question they have not prepared for.


Nonetheless, to have a leader unable to dare to go outside a completely controlled environment except for the briefest moments is, despite anything you say, Lash, unprecedented, and concerning to most people. Clearly it is not to you. So it goes.


Shrugs.


As I said earlier, it has been noteable since Kennedy (as the maligned Thomas pointed out in her autobiography) and you guys, stunningly to the eyes of most democracies, do not have your leader subjected to parliamentary questioning.


I agree with Finn that performing under the pressure of a modern press pack is not necessarily an indicator of ability to get things done.

This is why most leaders give in depth interview opportunities to serious journalists. This is an opportunity to answer serious and probing questions and a chance to express their views and defend them under proper scrutiny.


I think the ability to think under pressure DOES reflect a skill necessary to leaders, Finn.

It can also tell us whether they have any real knowledge of the matters they are leading us on, and gives us some reassurance that there is an intellect of some depth there. It does not assure a good leader, certainly, but I do think it is a reasonable PART of assessing a leader.


I suspect that Bush would make a fool of himself, given his obvious speech/language problems and what I think is acknowledged except by his most ardent worshippers as a very thin knowledge of foreign affairs, at least. (I have no knowledge of his knowledge of domestic affairs)
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2005 03:54 pm
Lash, YOu haven't noticed yet as evidenced by your last post, but Clinton is no longer in a position to make decisions for this country. He's been relegated to being a "citizen" like the rest of us.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2005 03:58 pm
His knowledge of domestic affairs: 1) the biggest federal deficit of our country, 2) the biggest trade deficit of our country, 3) more fell into poverty during his tenure, 4) more American are now withhout health insurance, and 5) our schools are in a shambles as the result of No Child Left Behind.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2005 03:59 pm
In making comparisons to how Presidents behave--re their level of "scripted" press conferences, the only way to establish precedence--is to compare to former Presidents.

I'm tired of babysitting you. Go play outside.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2005 04:02 pm
Lash, You should do the same. LOL
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2005 04:03 pm
Do you think, Finn, that the WH press corps is a normal press pack?


I am interested, since here, the parliamentary press gallery is made up of pretty senior journalists, it isn't the type of press that will suddenly ask if a leader is having an affair, or ask frivolous and silly questions.


It is stunning to foreign eyes, too, that there is almost no way of getting rid of a president, except impeachment.


In westminster systems, where the grilling in the house is way more barbed and probing than any press pack could manage, if a leader is hopeless, or is caught lying, for instance, their party can get rid of them, or they "must" resign if caught lying etc.

(Sadly, this is becoming more honoured in the breach than the observance, see Howard still being PM after the lies of children overboard, and serious doubts about his knowingly lying about intelligence preIraq. Still, being caught in a whopper, or just losing the confidence of the electorate can mean the end for them>)

I think there are obvious advantages of a leader knowing they have four years, (short, presumably, of being caught molesting the family dog, dealing in drugs etc), but, given you at least acknowledge, Finn, an advantage in a leader being subject to real scrutiny in parliament, do you see any other advantages to a more westminster type system?
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2005 04:06 pm
That was hilarious, CI. What cutting reparte. How can I retort? You slay with your quick wit. Where does he get these come backs...?

<shakes head>

<kicks can>
0 Replies
 
 

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