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Harping On Abu Ghraib and Gitmo is Highly Misguided

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 11:11 am
Set, I always had the impression that hepatitis was transfered by blood or other means to humans - never giving it another thought to the prefix "hepa." to mean anything else except inflamation of the liver. But it makes sense that abuse of alcohol would damage the liver. Why I didn't make the connection is a mystery about my inabilities to look beyond old information stuck in my brain.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 11:16 am
Alcologic (n.) Logic that is only understood while one is inebriated. To justify everything by the use of alcohol as the basis for every problem, debate, or argument. Any attempt at making a logical statement while one is drunk; Often identified as fuzzy logic. A system o reasoning based on alcohol and often not involving reason.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 11:19 am
Intrepid, Are you saying alcohol is disease of the brain? LOL
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 11:22 am
That's usually where it starts ;-)
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 11:39 am
Ticomaya wrote:
And who is claiming they don't/didn't have an infrastructure? What's important is that they don't meet the four conditions of "belligerent status" contained in Hague IV and Geneva III: a responsible commander, distinctive signs/emblems, open arms, and operating in accord with the laws of war. One thing about the Taliban, though: they certainly carried their arms openly ... but that's just a societal norm, and not in keeping with international laws of war.


The same could be said about the United States of America. The President made a blanket determination that detainees would not be granted POW status and that the protections required by the Geneva Convention for the treatment of POWs would not apply. This is in violation of the laws of war (GCIII, Articles 4 & 5). The President instituted a policy of coercive interrogation of detainees using methods that we ourselves had previously condemned as war crimes. Our country has not been operating in accord with the laws of war. Does that mean that our soldiers cannot claim POW status (and the protections of the Geneva Convention) if any of them fall into the hands of the enemy?

Rest assured, if any of our soldiers fall into the hands of the enemy and they are mistreated--we consider the mistreatment to be a war crime and will prosecute those who are responsible. Regardless of whether we recognize our enemy as a government or a state, we demand compliance with the laws of war. The District Court Judge for the District of Columbia noted the following:

Quote:
The government has asserted a position starkly different from the positions and behavior of the United States in previous conflicts, one that can only weaken the United States’ own ability to demand application of the Geneva Conventions to Americans captured during armed conflicts abroad. Amici remind us of the capture of U.S. Warrant Officer Michael Durant in 1993 by forces loyal to a Somali warlord. The United States demanded assurances that Durant would be treated consistently with protections afforded by the Convention, even though, if the Convention were applied as narrowly as the government now seeks
to apply it to Hamdan, “Durant’s captors would not be bound to follow the convention because they were not a ‘state’”.


Source: Hamdan v. Rumsfeld (at page 21):

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/tribunals/hamdanrums110804opn.pdf

The laws of war are not unilateral laws that we impose on our enemies--we are equally responsible for complying with those laws as our enemies are.

Accordingly, you are simply missing the point. Each detainee (whether the detainee is one of our combatants or an enemy combatant) is entitled to an individualized determination with respect to his status. Individual detainees captured on the battlefields have done nothing more than take up arms in an effort to repel our invading forces. They surrendered or they were captured and they are entitled to POW status.

The Third Geneva Convention sets forth several broad categories of persons who may claim POW status. Even though persons do not answer to a commander or wear a uniform, they are still entitled to POW status if they pick up arms to repel an invading force. Each and every detainee (former combatant) is entitled to POW status unless our military can prove that the detainee is NOT entitled to POW status before a competent tribunal. The detainee is entitled to an INDIVIDUALIZED determination.

Under the system of justice recognized by competent tribunals in civilized nations, trial by presumption is NOT JUSTICE. You cannot presume simply because a detainee is an alleged member of al Qaeda (the enemy) that he is a terrorist. We have never embraced the concept of guilt by association in our system of justice. We punish people for what we can PROVE that they have done in violation of the laws--not for what we fear that they might do in the future based upon their association with a group we despise.

We can justify disarming combatants and taking them off the battlefield and humanely housing them away from the hostilities as POWs (to ensure that they do not rejoin the hostilities) -- but this preventative detention must be in accord with the Geneva Convention and may last only so long as the active hostilities last.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 11:46 am
"Under the system of justice recognized by competent tribunals in civilized nations, trial by presumption is NOT JUSTICE. You cannot presume simply because a detainee is an alleged member of al Qaeda (the enemy) that he is a terrorist. We have never embraced the concept of guilt by association in our system of justice. We punish people for what we can PROVE that they have done in violation of the laws--not for what we fear that they might do in the future based upon their association with a group we despise."

Neocons use the argument consistently that our attack on Iraq was justified on the basis of imagined "fear." Saddam had/has WMDs that he might share with terrorists who could use them against US interests.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 11:58 am
Debra_Law wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
And who is claiming they don't/didn't have an infrastructure? What's important is that they don't meet the four conditions of "belligerent status" contained in Hague IV and Geneva III: a responsible commander, distinctive signs/emblems, open arms, and operating in accord with the laws of war. One thing about the Taliban, though: they certainly carried their arms openly ... but that's just a societal norm, and not in keeping with international laws of war.


The same could be said about the United States of America.


I find it hard to believe that you actually believe that.



Here's another good article.....

Quote:
By the Laws of War, They Aren't POWs
Sunday, March 3, 2002; Page B03

The U.S. government has yet to decide exactly how to handle al Qaeda and Taliban detainees being held in Afghanistan and at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba. The uncertainty has kept alive the legal debate over the status of the 500 or so detainees and whether they are being denied certain rights under international law, including the Geneva Conventions. The following is adapted from "Detention and Treatment of Combatants in the War on Terrorism," written by three Washington lawyers, Lee A. Casey, David B. Rivkin Jr. and Darin R. Bartram, and published last month by the Federalist Society for Law & Public Policy Studies.

President Bush's Military Order of Nov. 13, instructing the secretary of defense to establish one or more "military commissions" for the trial of captured al Qaeda members, has met with opposition from critics on both the left and the right. They contend that international law no longer supports the classification of groups such as al Qaeda or the Taliban as "unlawful belligerents" or "unlawful combatants," excluded from the rights of prisoners of war (POWs). In particular, many commentators claim that the Geneva Conventions of 1949 eliminated this distinction, and that all individuals captured during an armed conflict are entitled to POW status. This is simply untrue. Neither the Geneva Conventions, nor other international law developments over the past 50 years, changed significantly the international legal regime for dealing with unlawful combatants. Since both al Qaeda and the Taliban fall within the category of unlawful combatant, their members are not legally entitled to POW status.

I. Traditional Rules

Under the traditional laws of war, a fundamental distinction was drawn between lawful and unlawful belligerency. Individuals were considered to be lawful combatants -- accepting the burdens and entitled to the benefits of the laws of war (in particular, the right to be treated as prisoners of war upon defeat or capture) -- if they served in the armed forces, regular or militia, of a sovereign state. Four criteria, incorporated into Article I of the 1907 Annex to the Hague Convention (IV) Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, were required to be satisfied before lawful belligerency was established:

Article 1. The laws, rights, and duties of war apply not only to armies, but also to militia and volunteer corps fulfilling the following conditions:

(1) To be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(2) To have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance;

(3) To carry arms openly; and

(4) To conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

Individuals who took up arms, or joined an armed force that did not meet these criteria, were considered to be unlawful belligerents and a threat to every civilized state. Individuals falling into this category -- including spies, saboteurs and "guerrillas" -- could be summarily punished, up to and including the death penalty.

These rules have been applied consistently by the United States and other nations. During World War II, the last conflict involving all of the world's great powers, both the Axis and Allied powers denied POW status to unlawful combatants. This was especially true of the Axis governments, which savagely repressed resistance or "partisan" movements. After the war, the tribunals established by the Allies prosecuted Axis officers and soldiers for mistreating prisoners of war. But these same tribunals fully accepted the rule that unlawful combatants were not entitled to the POW status, and that they could be punished for their unlawful belligerency.

As a U.S. military tribunal at Nuremberg, in trying to come to terms with the role of resistance forces during World War II, observed in 1947:

GUERRILLA WARFARE IS SAID to exist where, after the capitulation of the main part of the armed forces, the surrender of the government and the occupation of its territory, the remnant of the defeated army or the inhabitants themselves continue hostilities by harassing the enemy with unorganized forces ordinarily not strong enough to meet the enemy in pitched battle. They are placed much in the same position as a spy. . . . Just as the spy may act lawfully for his country and at the same time be a war criminal to the enemy, so guerrillas may render great service to their country and, in the event of success, become heroes even, still they remain war criminals in the eyes of the enemy and may be treated as such. In no other way can an army guard and protect itself from the gadfly tactics of such armed resistance. And, on the other hand, members of such resistance forces must accept the increased risks involved in this mode of fighting.

II. Modifications

In the aftermath of World War II, the Geneva Conventions enhanced the legal protections available to irregular forces, largely by weakening the requirement that they be affiliated with a recognized belligerent government. It was fully recognized at the time, however, that irregular forces who failed to meet the minimum four criteria for lawful belligerency were excluded from the Conventions' protections. As the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) noted in its commentary on the treaty, "there was unanimous agreement about the necessity for partisans to fulfill the conditions laid down in Article 1 of the Hague Regulations . . . in order for them to qualify as 'prisoners of war.' "

There were additional efforts in 1977, undertaken largely by developing nations with a sympathy for "national liberation movements," to further protect irregular combatants. These efforts had only modest success. The United States has never ratified the resulting document, known as Protocol I. In fact, it was specifically repudiated by President Reagan -- because he thought it blurred the distinction between lawful and unlawful combatants -- in 1987.

Still, the category of unlawful combatant was not eliminated. This was fully acknowledged by the ICRC commentary to Protocol I. The ICRC noted that "anyone who participates directly in hostilities without being subordinate to an organized movement under a party to the conflict, and enforcing compliance with these rules, is a civilian who can be punished for the sole fact that he has taken up arms" and that "anyone who takes up arms without being able to claim this status will be left to be dealt with by the enemy and its military tribunals in the event that he is captured."

III: Al Qaeda and the Taliban

There is little doubt that the members of al Qaeda are unlawful combatants under both the Hague Regulations and Geneva Conventions, as well as customary international law. Although al Qaeda has undertaken military-style attacks against the United States and others, its fighters do not operate under a "responsible" command structure, wear uniforms, carry arms openly or conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. Failure to meet any one of these requirements would be sufficient to make al Qaeda's members into unlawful combatants. They meet none of them.

Whether the Taliban meets the requirements is a more complicated question. The Taliban began as a guerrilla movement well after the 1989 Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. By late 1994, the group had gained control of the city of Kandahar in southern Afghanistan, and it captured the capital, Kabul, in 1996. Although the Taliban was eventually recognized as the country's legitimate government by a handful of states (including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia), there is a serious question whether its forces ever achieved the status of lawful combatants as defined by the 1907 and the 1949 conventions.

First, they do not appear to have a regular and recognizable command structure, capable of imposing a military-style discipline. As journalist Ahmed Rashid reported in his book, "The Taliban": "The military structure of the Taliban is shrouded in even greater secrecy. The head of the armed forces is Mullah Omar although there is no actual definition of his position or his role. Under Omar there is a chief of general staff and then chiefs of staff for the army and air force. There are at least four army divisions and an armored division based in Kabul. However, there is no clear military structure with a hierarchy of officers and commanders, while unit commanders are constantly being shifted around."

Military-style discipline is the gravamen of this first requirement. A "responsible" command structure must be capable of ensuring that the entire military organization complies with the laws of war and that any malfeasance must be addressed and punished. Given the importance of command responsibility, a command structure that is vague -- thereby insulating its members from responsibility for the actions of subordinates -- does not meet this requirement. This appears to be the case with the Taliban, whose military forces were run by a constantly changing cast of commanders, with unclear lines of civilian and military authority above them.

Second, it also is doubtful that Taliban forces wore an emblem or article of clothing that clearly identified them as combatants or that they carried their arms openly. It could be argued that it might be problematic to fulfill the requirement about weapons in a society where men habitually carry firearms about their persons. It remains a requirement nonetheless.

Most importantly, the Taliban did not carry out military operations in accordance with the laws of war. In fact, the Taliban openly rejected "Western" international law. Mullah Omar has been quoted as saying: "[w]e do not accept something which somebody imposes on us under the name of human rights which is contradictory to the holy Koranic law." His deeds match his pronouncement.

How a country's armed forces conduct themselves is a critical component in determining lawful belligerency. In particular, as noted by the ICRC, partisans are "required to respect the Geneva Conventions to the fullest extent possible":

IN ALL THEIR OPERATIONS, they must be guided by the moral criteria which, in the absence of written provisions, must direct the conscience of man; in launching attacks, they must not cause violence and suffering disproportionate to the military result which they may reasonably hope to achieve. They may not attack civilians or disarmed persons and must, in all their operations, respect the principles of honour and loyalty as they expect their enemies to do.

In his new book, "The Rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan," Neamatollah Nojumi describes how the Taliban and its supporters waged war:

THESE NON-AFGHAN FIGHTERS, along with the Taliban army, have not only broken the traditional norms of Afghan civil societies, they have also committed massive crimes against humanity by beheading and killing prisoners of war (POWs) and massacring thousands of civilians in different parts of the country. In 1998 to 1999, the International Red Cross (ICRC) reported that the Taliban and their non-Afghan army killed thousands of civilians in Bamyan and set fire to about 8,000 houses and shops.

Similarly, according to reports by Amnesty International, Taliban fighters often treated women "as spoils of war. Many women were raped by armed guards during the period 1992-1995. Rape appeared to be condoned by leaders as a method of intimidating vanquished populations and of rewarding soldiers."

Killing prisonersofwar, massacring civilians, the wanton destruction of civilian property and treating women as "the spoils of war" violate both the customary laws of war and treaty-based norms, including the Geneva Conventions of 1949 to which Afghanistan is, itself, a party. When these kinds of atrocities are committed by soldiers, they are considered war crimes and punished on an individual basis. When it is the policy of the group in question to undertake such activities, all of the group's members may be considered unlawful belligerents, subject to summary disposition in military courts and excluded from the benefits of POW status.

IV: The Fate of the Taliban and al Qaeda

The administration has yet to prosecute (by military commission or any other body) any detainee from Afghanistan, and it does not appear likely to do so in the near future. Under international law, it is entirely appropriate to hold both unlawful combatants and POWs until the armed conflict has ended. This was, in fact, a practice often followed during World War II, where some individuals were tried and punished during the war, but others were held until hostilities had ended.

Although it may be difficult to determine the precise point at which the "war on terrorism" concludes, once the al Qaeda network -- like the Taliban -- is destroyed, the United States will have to determine whether to try the detainees or repatriate them -- either to Afghanistan or to their countries of origin. They are not entitled to the rights and privileges of POWs, but customary international law does require that even unlawful combatants be given a judicial process before being "punished." Otherwise, their continued detention becomes, at some point, penal in nature. For the time being, however, the United States is fully entitled to hold the captured Taliban and al Qaeda members as unlawful combatants, without granting them POW status.

V: Conclusion

At the dawn of the 21st century, the civilized world is once again seriously menaced by unlawful belligerency. Judging from the tragic events of Sept. 11 and al Qaeda's subsequent pronouncements, it intends to continue a policy of purposefully targeting civilian populations, and does not feel bound in the slightest bythe accepted laws of war. Strict enforcement of the prevailing international law norms, which provide that unlawful combatants are not entitled to the rights of POWs and can be tried by military tribunals, is a key aspect of the campaign against terrorism.

Indeed, to erode the distinction between lawful and unlawful combatants, which is to central to the laws of war, would undermine the entire effort of subjecting warfare to legal restraints and rules. This enterprise is centuries old, and it would be ironic indeed if the 21st century witnessed the destruction of the achievements that have sought to limit, to the maximum extent possible, the destruction and horror of war.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:06 pm
Debra_Law wrote:


The same could be said about the United States of America. The President made a blanket determination that detainees would not be granted POW status and that the protections required by the Geneva Convention for the treatment of POWs would not apply. This is in violation of the laws of war (GCIII, Articles 4 & 5). The President instituted a policy of coercive interrogation of detainees using methods that we ourselves had previously condemned as war crimes. Our country has not been operating in accord with the laws of war. Does that mean that our soldiers cannot claim POW status (and the protections of the Geneva Convention) if any of them fall into the hands of the enemy?


It's a known fact that American soldiers who fall into the hands of this particular enemy are tortured and killed. It should be standard doctrine for troops involved in this one to save one last cartridge for themselves rather than ever allow themselves to be captured.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:18 pm
begging the question
Ticomaya wrote:
What a surprise ... Ms. Malkin appears to see things my way:

Quote:
...

Every single detainee currently being held at Guantanamo Bay has received a hearing before a military tribunal. Every one. As a result of those hearings, more than three dozen Gitmo detainees have been released. The hearings, called "Combatant Status Review Tribunals," are held before a board of officers, and permit the detainees to contest the facts on which their classification as "enemy combatants" is based.

Gitmo-bashers attack the Bush administration's failure to abide by the Geneva Conventions. But as legal analysts Lee Casey and Darin Bartram told me, "the status hearings are, in fact, fully comparable to the 'Article V' hearings required by the Geneva Conventions, in situations where those treaties apply, and are also fully consistent with the Supreme Court's 2004 decision in the Hamdi v. Rumsfeld case."

Treating foreign terrorists like American shoplifters -- with full access to civilian lawyers, classified intelligence, and all the attendant rights of a normal jury trial -- is a surefire recipe for another 9/11. That is why the Bush administration fought so hard to erect an alternative tribunal system -- long established in wartime -- in the first place.

The few critics who acknowledge the existence of the tribunals argue they aren't sufficient. They "provided due process in form, but not in substance," as Newsday put it. That view is shared by a Carter-appointed liberal judge, but an earlier decision by a Bush-appointed judge upheld the tribunals. In the end, courts will almost certainly affirm the legality of the Gitmo tribunals, which, as noted, were modeled after the due process standards described in the Hamdi decision.

That ruling, may I remind you, addressed the detention of a U.S. citizen as an enemy combatant. As former Attorney General William Barr noted last week in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, "Obviously, if these procedures are sufficient for American citizens, they are more than enough for foreign detainees."

Do John McCain and the anti-Gitmo gang actually believe otherwise, or are they too clueless to realize the implications of their gulag-Pol Pot-Nazi-Eichmann-hellhole harangues?


Link


Here again, the author is missing the point.

Here is the obvious:

The opposing sides to an armed conflict (war) are enemies.

Our soldiers are "enemy combatants" to the people who are fighting against them.

All combatants who fall into the hands of the opposing power are called "enemy combatants"

So what if "Combatant Status Review Tribunals" have been established to determine whether a detainee is an "enemy combatant?" That determination is relevant only to the government's right under the laws of war to detain enemy combatants for an indefinite period of time while active hostilities are continuing.

The laws of war allow the powers who are at war with each other to detain combatants that have surrender or that have been captured in order to prevent them from rejoining the hostilities.

The fact that a combatant status review tribunal has determined that a detainee is an enemy combatant who may be lawfully detained under the laws of war for the duration of the active hostilities doesn't address the issue of whether the enemy combatant is entitled to POW status under the Geneva Convention or whether the enemy combatant may be designated as an "UNLAWFUL combatant" who is NOT entitled to POW status.

Designating a detainee as an "enemy combatant" simply begs the question.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:28 pm
Re: begging the question
Debra_Law wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
What a surprise ... Ms. Malkin appears to see things my way:

Quote:
...

Every single detainee currently being held at Guantanamo Bay has received a hearing before a military tribunal. Every one. As a result of those hearings, more than three dozen Gitmo detainees have been released. The hearings, called "Combatant Status Review Tribunals," are held before a board of officers, and permit the detainees to contest the facts on which their classification as "enemy combatants" is based.

Gitmo-bashers attack the Bush administration's failure to abide by the Geneva Conventions. But as legal analysts Lee Casey and Darin Bartram told me, "the status hearings are, in fact, fully comparable to the 'Article V' hearings required by the Geneva Conventions, in situations where those treaties apply, and are also fully consistent with the Supreme Court's 2004 decision in the Hamdi v. Rumsfeld case."

Treating foreign terrorists like American shoplifters -- with full access to civilian lawyers, classified intelligence, and all the attendant rights of a normal jury trial -- is a surefire recipe for another 9/11. That is why the Bush administration fought so hard to erect an alternative tribunal system -- long established in wartime -- in the first place.

The few critics who acknowledge the existence of the tribunals argue they aren't sufficient. They "provided due process in form, but not in substance," as Newsday put it. That view is shared by a Carter-appointed liberal judge, but an earlier decision by a Bush-appointed judge upheld the tribunals. In the end, courts will almost certainly affirm the legality of the Gitmo tribunals, which, as noted, were modeled after the due process standards described in the Hamdi decision.

That ruling, may I remind you, addressed the detention of a U.S. citizen as an enemy combatant. As former Attorney General William Barr noted last week in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, "Obviously, if these procedures are sufficient for American citizens, they are more than enough for foreign detainees."

Do John McCain and the anti-Gitmo gang actually believe otherwise, or are they too clueless to realize the implications of their gulag-Pol Pot-Nazi-Eichmann-hellhole harangues?


Link


Here again, the author is missing the point.

Here is the obvious:

The opposing sides to an armed conflict (war) are enemies.

Our soldiers are "enemy combatants" to the people who are fighting against them.

All combatants who fall into the hands of the opposing power are called "enemy combatants"

So what if "Combatant Status Review Tribunals" have been established to determine whether a detainee is an "enemy combatant?" That determination is relevant only to the government's right under the laws of war to detain enemy combatants for an indefinite period of time while active hostilities are continuing.

The laws of war allow the powers who are at war with each other to detain combatants that have surrender or that have been captured in order to prevent them from rejoining the hostilities.

The fact that a combatant status review tribunal has determined that a detainee is an enemy combatant who may be lawfully detained under the laws of war for the duration of the active hostilities doesn't address the issue of whether the enemy combatant is entitled to POW status under the Geneva Convention or whether the enemy combatant may be designated as an "UNLAWFUL combatant" who is NOT entitled to POW status.

Designating a detainee as an "enemy combatant" simply begs the question.


It seems to me that it is you, Debra, who is stating the obvious.

But tribunals similar to these can address the POW status issue in accordance with Hamdi, can they not?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:29 pm
chiczaira wrote:
Skinney- If you were a lawyer and went into court with that garbage, they would laugh you out of court. Now,be a good girl and get some Evidence. You do know what evidence is dont you? Evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

I don't think you know very much about law, Skinney.

If you remember the impeachment of Bill Scumbag Clinton, you may recall that some of the House members were discussing the possibilty of "perjury" charges. Despite the fact that Clinton lied repeatedly in his Paula Jones deposition, he was not charged with perjury because the lawyers did not properly define the questions they were asking him.

You get some real evidence, skinney, and then come back. Real evidence. Not hearsay or innuendo.



Massagatto (Abuzz) called me Skinny.

Welcome back, Massy/Italgato.

Boy, have I missed YOU!!! Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:32 pm
If chic is indeed Massagatto, I see a short life on a2k for chic. Wink
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:36 pm
yeah, I posted a eulogy last evening.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:38 pm
massy is chic? Imagine my unbridled joy. Let's not start any vicious rumors now folks... unless you really really want to.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:38 pm
During a series of silly exchanges last night, Chickiepoo repeatedly responded when addressed as Gato.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck . . .
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:41 pm
"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck." - Senator Joseph McCarthy, in a 1952 speech, suggesting a method for identifying communists and communist sympathizers.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:43 pm
Way to tie everything together, Intrepid. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:45 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Way to tie everything together, Intrepid. :wink:


Don't go gettin soft on me Tico
Shocked
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:57 pm
Very good, Intrepid, i'm proud of you . . . for the moment.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 12:58 pm
Setanta wrote:
Very good, Intrepid, i'm proud of you . . . for the moment.


and don't you go gettin soft either. At least we have the bane of Chico in common :-)
0 Replies
 
 

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