1
   

Harping On Abu Ghraib and Gitmo is Highly Misguided

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 01:20 pm
Didn't you think it appropriately ironic to use ol' Tailgunner Joe's mot on Gato?
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 01:46 pm
Re: begging the question
Debra wrote:
The fact that a combatant status review tribunal has determined that a detainee is an enemy combatant who may be lawfully detained under the laws of war for the duration of the active hostilities doesn't address the issue of whether the enemy combatant is entitled to POW status under the Geneva Convention or whether the enemy combatant may be designated as an "UNLAWFUL combatant" who is NOT entitled to POW status.

Designating a detainee as an "enemy combatant" simply begs the question.



Ticomaya wrote:
But tribunals similar to these can address the POW status issue in accordance with Hamdi, can they not?


Read Hamdan v. Rumsfeld.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 01:50 pm
The Geneva Convention may or may not apply to grant certain protections concerning the treatment of combatants / belligerants depending on their "status" as determined by a court of competent jurisdiction. (A court of competent jurisdiction is a court established by CONGRESS with respect to the subject matter involved--the PRESIDENT does not have authority to establish courts.) But that doesn't mean that captives / detainees are completely without protection and may be dealt with as the President sees fit:


A precedent for justice?

Quote:
Jess Bravin had a remarkable article in last Thurday's Wall Street Journal (available for free to the public) on a set of war crimes decisions issued shortly after World War II which contain striking resemblances to the cases pending today — both cases involving alleged Al Qaeda members, and cases involving U.S. servicemembers accused of abuse. According to Mr. Bravin:

For decades, records of the Kikuchi case and hundreds of other postwar tribunals lay forgotten in archives and government offices around the world. But now they could assume new significance for one of the most contentious aspects of the war on terrorism: the U.S.'s treatment of prisoners.

Hundreds of suspected terrorists and enemy fighters have been captured since the fall of 2001 and housed at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and elsewhere. The Bush administration has determined these captives aren't protected by the Geneva Conventions. But the administration has faced a wave of legal challenges to that view, and suffered several defeats so far. Today, government lawyers will ask a federal appeals court in Washington to reverse a November ruling that found the Geneva Convention protects prisoners held at Guantanamo and ordered an immediate halt to military commission proceedings against detainees because they didn't comply with the treaty.

The legal battle is likely to end up at the Supreme Court, and, depending on its outcome, could compel the U.S. to devise a new road map for prisoner treatment. The rulings from the years immediately after World War II lay out the most complete picture available of the way the U.S. viewed treatment of prisoners of war back then, when modern international humanitarian law was laid down. The question is, do these cases apply today?

Critics of the Bush administration's policy on terror-related prisoners argue they do. "These are the foundational cases," the first to apply international law to questions of prisoner treatment during armed conflict, says David Cohen, a 56-year-old professor of classics and rhetoric at the University of California, Berkeley, who also teaches classes on war crimes. He has spent the last 10 years collecting the documents from archives and government offices, adding millions of pages to existing records and unearthing the case of Mr. Kikuchi.

The records make it clear that after World War II, U.S. military prosecutors and judges set out to establish a precedent barring any prisoner mistreatment, by aggressively pursuing and punishing even comparatively small offenses.
What the records make clear are some unbelievable similarities between the policy positions and defenses of the Japanese during World War II, and the U.S. government today. Then, the U.S. prosecuted such abuses, aggressively using the "command responsibility" doctrine to go after senior officers who knew or should have known about their subordinates' misconduct. Now, a year after Abu Ghraib, we have yet to see a single court-martial for a soldier over the rank of staff sergeant. Instead, today's generals remain free to hold panel discussions where they blame everyone else but themselves. According to BG Janis Karpinski at a recent talk in San Francisco:

"I find it hard to believe that I did not know," she said. "If I had known, I would've raised the issue. I would've shouted about it."
Wrong! That's not the standard. A general officer is not just responsible for what she knew, but what she should have known. The same goes for the colonels and captains under her. As a nation, we have sent enemy generals to the gallows for the actions of their subordinates. See Application of Yamashita, 327 US 1 (1946). There is some irony in the fact that we now let our own generals off for similar misconduct.

But wait — there's more irony where that came from. Mr. Bravin's article (and its online supplement -- also available for free from the Wall Street Journal) draws an even more interesting parallel between the kind of legal process afforded U.S. personnel by the Japanese during WWII, and the kind of legal process we are now giving alleged Al Qaeda members at Gitmo and elsewhere. After WWII, we prosecuted the Japanese for war crimes stemming from their deprivation of due process in violation of international law, so the point is a very important one. According ot Mr. Bravin and the records from the WWII archives:

Japan saw the bombing of its cities as the deliberate targeting of civilians--and employed summary proceedings to punish captured American flyers as war criminals. Following the war, American military authorities concluded that treating Americans as war criminals was itself a war crime, because the Japanese procedures didn't meet the due-process standards of international law. At U.S. military commissions convened at Yokohama, Japan, in the late 1940s, U.S. Army officers carefully reviewed the level of due process the enemy had afforded American prisoners, and harshly punished them for falling short of what the U.S. decided was required.

That history may now come back to haunt the Bush administration, as advocates for prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, argue that, like Japan in World War II, the U.S. today is punishing prisoners without affording them sufficient due process.

* * *
The current military commission is unlawful, [Georgetown law professor Neal] Katyal argues, because it affords defendants fewer rights than American soldiers receive before courts-martial, in particular by denying defendants the right to confront all witnesses or see all evidence against them.

The government's primary claim is that courts have no authority to second-guess the treatment of enemy prisoners. But the administration also contends its military commission will offer a fair trial. President Bush's November 2001 order authorizing the commission called for "full and fair" trials, and officials say they have been reviewing the procedures with an eye to making them resemble courts-martial more closely. Nonetheless, the administration maintains that special courts are needed to try international terrorism suspects because of the grave threat they pose to the U.S. Under current rules, commissions can sentence convicts to any term or, on vote of a unanimous seven-member panel, death.

According to the U.S. military's World War II records, Japanese officials also devised special procedures to deal with what they considered an extraordinary threat. American flyers "who do not violate international law will be treated as prisoners of war," but those "suspected of being felonious war criminals" would face Japanese military tribunals. Offenses "subject to military punishment" included "bombing, strafing and other acts of attack aimed at threatening and inflicting casualties on civilians," "damaging and destroying private property which has no military significance" and "any atrocious brutal acts that disregard humanity." The maximum penalty was death by firing squad.

Like the Bush administration's military commissions, the Japanese courts could consider evidence extracted through coercive interrogations. But laws passed by the Japanese Diet and regulations issued by the Imperial Army spelled out procedures intended to ensure that prisoners weren't punished arbitrarily.

As the war wore on, however, the Japanese deviated from their regulations, using samurai swords to behead convicted flyers because ammunition was too scarce to waste on firing squads. Dozens of Americans were executed after summary hearings with no right of appeal.

Prosecuted by the U.S. after the war, Japanese officials said their harsh acts were dictated by military necessity.

Col. Hajime Onishi, charged with presiding over the execution of U.S. flyers in June, 1945, argued that "the indiscriminate bombings had killed 20,000 people and wounded 30,000 in his territory, most of whom were noncombatants, and, therefore, the thought of the disposition of 27 airmen was a small incident compared with these facts," records say. "The criminal code and international law were secondary matters when compared with military operations of the supreme command."

Defense lawyers argued that offering full-blown trials for American flyers was impossible in the war's waning months, as Japan suffered under relentless U.S. attacks. Besides, such procedures "would not have given the crew members any greater rights or protections than they received under the abridged procedure, and that it constituted a trial under international law." In any event, defense lawyers argued, the "crew members had no rights as they were not prisoners of war."

Perhaps surprisingly, U.S. Army reviewers concluded in 1949 that "a Japanese tribunal could have reasonably found there was indiscriminate bombing" and that "in the course of a legal trial might well have found the [American] crew members guilty." Moreover, they acknowledged that Japanese legal procedures, although based on inquisitorial judges rather than the adversarial system used in the U.S., cannot be considered "automatically illegal."

But the abridged procedures employed as the war wore down violated the flyers rights, the U.S. found. "These men were not informed they were being charged with indiscriminate bombing and, except in the intelligence investigation, where they might reasonably be expected to give as little information as possible, they were not given a chance to make a statement." The flyers weren't permitted to attend the hearings where they were convicted and sentenced, the Army reviewers found.
Then, as now, the argument was the same for the departure from legal process: necessity. In a nutshell, the argument was made then by the Japanese and now by the U.S. that a full and fair trial for the defendants might somehow damage national security, and therefore it was necessary to convene some kind of summary proceeding (usually in secret) which would safeguard the state. The similarities between the Japanese military commissions and today's U.S. military commissions are striking. Indeed, the procedure to hold such commissions without the accused in the room is at the heart of Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, the current case pending before the DC Circuit challenging the lawfulness of the commissions. (Full disclosure: I drafted a friend-of-the-court brief opposing the government in that case.) Depriving today's military commission defendants of the right to be present for all important phases of their trial, such as voir dire, runs against both U.S. statute (10 U.S.C. 839, 849, 850) and international law.

The president's order and other supporting statements make it clear that we are implementing these commission rules because we deem it necessary to do so — that it would be "impracticable" to try such individuals in federal court or a conventional military court. However, in devising these commissions, the administration has developed a set of rules which are fatally inconsistent with both U.S. law and international law. Sixty years ago, the Japanese deployed similar arguments in support of their own military commissions — and soon found themselves in the defendant's chair for war crimes based on those unlawful legal proceedings. We should be wary of following the example set by the Japanese.

If the administration wants to try enemy combatants by military commission, there is ample precedent for doing so. However, such commissions must be legislatively authorized, and constituted in accordance with U.S. law and international law. It may well be easier to simply try such defendants in a general court-martial, since the UCMJ grants military courts jurisdiction over enemy combatants for war crimes, and the military justice system is a far more mature and respected institution. Or, the current commission system can be legislatively authorized, and then amended to conform more closely to the UCMJ and past commissions procedures. The New York Times reported two weeks ago that the Pentagon was considering a proposal to do just that, but my sources agree that the proposal was dead-on-arrival when it got to the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the Vice President's office.

I suppose there is a final irony in all of this, which I alluded two in last week's Slate column on lawfare. As a nation, we have now committed ourselves to the spread of freedom and democracy throughout the world. Establishing the rule of law, and building democratic institutions, come part and parcel with this charter to spread freedom. We cannot embrace such things on the one hand, as we are in Iraq, while flouting the rule of law on the other, as we are in Gitmo. The world sees our inconsistency, and criticizes our policies as a naked, unprincipled grab for power. It's not enough to talk the freedom talk; you must also walk the freedom walk. And that means adhering to the rule of law in all contexts, such as treating captured enemy fighters according to established U.S. and international law. There is no evidence that giving these men a proper trial would somehow hurt national security; all the evidence suggests our political and moral standing would be enhanced if we treated these men according to the law. So why haven't we done so?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 06:01 pm
Thanks for all the info, Debra.

Looks like the UN is getting involved.

http://www.adelphia.net/news/read.php?id=11998729&ps=1012
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 06:10 pm
squinney, I'm afriad the UN will not make any headway into getting "free access" to Gitmo's prisoners.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 06:18 pm
Sorry, CI. You caught me being an optimist. Very Happy

Re Chic /Gato: He is the ONLY one that has called me "skinny" in a looooooong time. Dead giveaway. Laughing
0 Replies
 
thethinkfactory
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 07:50 pm
Tico / Debra:

I hate legal wrangles for just this point you both are bringing up. It comes down to intepretation of precedence.

I try and hold myself to ethical considerations in these cases.

I must say both articles you have both been posting have been facinating.

TTF
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 08:16 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
squinney, I'm afriad the UN will not make any headway into getting "free access" to Gitmo's prisoners.


Why would they want to? Some sort of a new prisoners-for-food scandal they hope to concoct?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 08:19 pm
gunga, You wouldn't understand anything if you happened to be one of the prisoners.
0 Replies
 
chiczaira
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 08:25 pm
gungasnake- Are you the only person on this thread who knows that the UN is beyond redempion and is almost totally corrupt. All of the blah-blah by Debra Law means nothing, Gitmo will stay as it is, Especially now after weepy Durbin was eviscerated by his boss, Dick Daley.

I am amused at the various ways the left attempts to denigrate the administration and George W. Bush.

We shall see wheter the slurs and defamation work when the election of 2006 takes place. I will go on record right now to state that the Republicans will retain the House and Senate. Debra Law's blah blah notwithstanding.

I am also amused by the blatant bias and name calling indulged in by Setanta. Charges of McCarthyism are so yesterday. Almost as passe as calling a person a "Communist". I expected far more from a genius like Setanta. I am very much afraid he is losing his touch.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 06:32 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/24/politics/24gitmo.html?hp&ex=1119672000&en=17f38087d71bd912&ei=5094&partner=homepage

June 24, 2005
Interrogators Cite Doctors' Aid at Guantánamo
By NEIL A. LEWIS
WASHINGTON, June 23 - Military doctors at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, have aided interrogators in conducting and refining coercive interrogations of detainees, including providing advice on how to increase stress levels and exploit fears, according to new, detailed accounts given by former interrogators.

The accounts, in interviews with The New York Times, come as mental health professionals are debating whether psychiatrists and psychologists at the prison camp have violated professional ethics codes. The Pentagon and mental health professionals have been examining the ethical issues involved.

The former interrogators said the military doctors' role was to advise them and their fellow interrogators on ways of increasing psychological duress on detainees, sometimes by exploiting their fears, in the hopes of making them more cooperative and willing to provide information. In one example, interrogators were told that a detainee's medical files showed he had a severe phobia of the dark and suggested ways in which that could be manipulated to induce him to cooperate.

In addition, the authors of an article published by The New England Journal of Medicine this week said their interviews with doctors who helped devise and supervise the interrogation regimen at Guantánamo showed that the program was explicitly designed to increase fear and distress among detainees as a means to obtaining intelligence.

The accounts shed light on how interrogations were conducted and raise new questions about the boundaries of medical ethics in the nation's fight against terrorism.

Bryan Whitman, a senior Pentagon spokesman, declined to address the specifics in the accounts. But he suggested that the doctors advising interrogators were not covered by ethics strictures because they were not treating patients but rather were acting as behavioral scientists.

He said that while some health care personnel are responsible for "humane treatment of detainees," some medical professionals "may have other roles," like serving as behavioral scientists assessing the character of interrogation subjects.

The military refused to give The Times permission to interview medical personnel at the isolated Guantánamo camp about their practices, and the medical journal, in an article that criticized the program, did not name the officials interviewed by its authors. The handful of former interrogators who spoke to The Times about the practices at Guantánamo spoke on condition of anonymity; some said they had welcomed the doctors' help.

Pentagon officials said in interviews that the practices at Guantánamo violated no ethics guidelines, and they disputed the conclusions of the medical journal's article, which was posted on the journal's Web site on Wednesday.

Several ethics experts outside the military said there were serious questions involving the conduct of the doctors, especially those in units known as Behavioral Science Consultation Teams, BSCT, colloquially referred to as "biscuit" teams, which advise interrogators.

"Their purpose was to help us break them," one former interrogator told The Times earlier this year.

The interrogator said in a more recent interview that a biscuit team doctor, having read the medical file of a detainee, suggested that the inmate's longing for his mother could be exploited to persuade him to cooperate.

Dr. Stephen Xenakis, a psychiatrist and former Army brigadier general in the medical corps, said in an interview that "this behavior is not consistent with our medical responsibility or any of the codes that guide our conduct as doctors."

The use of psychologists and psychiatrists in interrogations prompted the Pentagon to issue a policy statement last week that officials said was supposed to ensure that doctors did not participate in unethical behavior.

While the American Psychiatric Association has guidelines that specifically prohibit the kinds of behaviors described by the former interrogators for their members who are medical doctors, the rules for psychologists are less clear.

Dr. Spencer Eth, a professor of psychiatry at New York Medical College and chairman of the ethics committee of the American Psychiatric Association, said in an interview that there was no way that psychiatrists at Guantánamo could ethically counsel interrogators on ways to increase distress on detainees.

But in a statement issued in December, the American Psychological Association said the issue of involvement of its members in "national security endeavors" was new.

Dr. Stephen Behnke, who heads the group's ethics division, said in an interview this week that a committee of 10 members, including some from the military, was meeting in Washington this weekend to discuss the issue.

Dr. Behnke emphasized that the codes did not necessarily allow participation by psychologists in such roles, but rather that the issue had not been dealt with directly before.

"A question has arisen that we in the profession have to address and that is where we are now: is it ethical or is it not ethical?" he said.

Dr. William Winkenwerder Jr., assistant secretary of defense for health matters, said the new Pentagon guidelines made clear that doctors might not engage in unethical conduct. But in a briefing for reporters last week, he declined to say whether the guidelines would prohibit some of the activities described by former interrogators and others. He said the medical personnel "were not driving the interrogations" but were there as consultants.

The guidelines include prohibitions against doctors' participating in abusive treatment, but they all make an exception for "lawful" interrogations. As the military maintains that its interrogations are lawful and that prisoners at Guantánamo are not covered by the Geneva Conventions, those provisions would seem to allow the behavior described by interrogators and the medical journal. The article in the medical journal, by two researchers who interviewed doctors who worked on the biscuit program, says, "Since late 2002, psychiatrists and psychologists have been part of a strategy that employs extreme stress, combined with behavior-shaping rewards, to extract actionable intelligence."

The article was written by Dr. M. Gregg Bloche, who teaches at Georgetown University Law School and is a fellow at the Brookings Institution, and Jonathan H. Marks, a British lawyer who is a fellow in bioethics at Georgetown and Johns Hopkins Universities.

Dr. Bloche said in an interview that the use of health professionals in devising abusive interrogation strategies was unethical and led to their involvement in violations of international law. Dr. Winkenwerder said on Thursday that the article was "an outrageous distortion" of the medical situation at Guantánamo, according to Reuters news agency.

The article also challenges assertions of military authorities that they have generally maintained the confidentiality of medical records.

The Winkenwerder guidelines make it clear that detainees should have no expectation of privacy, but that medical records may be shared with people who are not in a medical provider relationship with the detainee only under strict circumstances.

Dr. Bloche said such an assertion was contrary to what he had discovered in his research. It is also in conflict with accounts of former interrogators who previously told The Times that they were free to examine any detainee's medical files. After April 2003, when Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld tightened rules on detainee treatment, one interrogator said the records had to be obtained through biscuit team doctors who always obliged.

The former interrogator said the biscuit team doctors usually observed interrogations from behind a one-way mirror, but sometimes were also in the room with the detainee and interrogator.

U.N. Inquiry on Guantánamo

By The New York Times

UNITED NATIONS, June 23 - A four-member team of United Nations human rights experts accused the United States on Thursday of stalling on requests over the past three years to visit detainees at Guantánamo and said it would begin its own investigation without American assistance.

"Such requests were based on information from reliable sources of serious allegations of torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of detainees, arbitrary detention, violations of their right to health and their due process rights," the four, all independent authorities who serve the United Nations as fact-finders on rights abuses, said in a statement.

Pierre-Richard Prosper, the United States ambassador for war crimes, said the United States had been unable to meet the fact-finders' deadline to answer its request but intended to keep the matter open.
0 Replies
 
thethinkfactory
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 06:54 am
It amazes me how a group of otherwise intelligent people simply rally around a person. No good nor bad can convince them otherwise.

Perhaps Churchill was right that the greatest argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter.

Ofcourse, Socrates could have been right when he said the Democracy was like a ship without a captain.

Why are we so willing to suspend reason and pay homage to people rather than ideals and virtues?

We type up these silly pessimistic and sarcastic responses that do nothing and say nothing if not acted upon and convince ourselves we stand for something and contribute to what is supposed to be free and educated discussions.

I think we should be ashamed when we talk like this. No wonder Iran is convinced we can no longer be any sort of measurement for elections or democracy.

TTF
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 08:47 am
http://www.periodico26.cu/english_new/world/soldier200605.htm
Quote:

US Soldier Sues Pentagon over Guantánamo Beating

Washington, June 20 (RHC)-- A US soldier who was seriously beaten when he posed as a foreign prisoner during a training drill at Guantánamo is suing the Pentagon for 15 million dollars. Spc. Sean Baker was medically retired from the military after he suffered a traumatic brain injury in January 2003.

The 38-year-old military policeman was assaulted after he volunteered to wear an orange jumpsuit and portray an uncooperative detainee. Baker said his fellow MPs, who were told that he was an unruly detainee who had assaulted an American sergeant, severely beat him -- leaving him with seizures, blackouts, headaches, insomnia and psychological problems.

In the lawsuit filed in US District Court in Lexington, Kentucky, Baker asked the Army to reinstate him in a position that would accommodate his medical condition. He said the Army put him on medical retirement against his wishes. Baker is also demanding 15 million dollars in damages.

The Pentagon initially said that Baker's hospitalization following the training incident was not related to the beating. Later, officials conceded that he was treated for injuries suffered when a five-man MP "internal reaction force" choked him, slammed his head several times against a concrete floor and sprayed him with pepper gas.

The drill took place in a prison isolation wing reserved for suspected Al Qaeda and Taliban detainees who were disruptive or had attacked MPs. Baker said he put on the orange jumpsuit and squeezed under a prison bunk after being told by a lieutenant that he would be portraying an unruly detainee. He said he was assured that MPs conducting the "extraction drill" knew it was a training exercise and that Baker was an American soldier.

As he was being choked and beaten, Baker reportedly screamed a code word and shouted: "I'm a US soldier! I'm a US soldier!" He said the beating continued until the jumpsuit was yanked down during the struggle, revealing his military uniform.

The lawsuit says of the extraction team: "Armed with the highly inflammatory, false, incendiary and misleading information that had been loaded into their psyches by their platoon leader, these perceptions and fears... became their operative reality, and they acted upon these fears."

Baker's attorney, T. Bruce Simpson, Jr., told reporters that no one has been disciplined or punished for the assault. Last June, a military spokesman said an internal investigation in February 2003 had concluded that no one was liable for Baker's injuries. The Pentagon spokesman said training procedures at Guantánamo had been "reviewed" after the incident.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 08:57 am
One of the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay used to live about 10 minutes drive from where I live. He has been there for a couple of years. He is apparently not doing well.

He has a new Australian lawyer (he has had an appointed USMC lawyer, who seems to be a very honourable man, for some time).

His new Australian lawyer has said that his client is in a very bad way in Guantanamo. I know his Australian lawyer. He is a man from an impeccably conservative background so you could hardly call him a bleeding heart.

When the truth comes out about how this Australian man has been treated I suspect that our government will have a lot to answer for in its utter prostration before your government. We'll fix that with a bit of luck. Our government's tendency to suck up to yours is sickening some of us.

But like your electorate we tend to focus on whether or not we can afford a bigger tv this year but we have a breaking point.

I suspect we will complain but of course your government will simply brush off our objections.

But that can only last for so long. The truth will out.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 09:16 am
Yep.

I suspect some positioning is occurring ahead of time - especially since an eminent legal opinion has held that he could be tried (but likely not successfully re evidence of guilt) in Oz (contrary to repeated government protestations) under a rescinded article of the Geneva Convention (which applied when he committed his alleged offence).



Hmmmmmmm......
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 10:08 am
It looks as though both the US & Australian governments don't quite know what to do about David Hicks. Is it 5 years in Guantanamo now? The US authorities don't seem to have sufficient evidence to convict him & want to handball the awkward problem of his lengthy detention back to the (usually obliging) Australian government. (Imagine the political fallout of a trial where the US authorities couldn't justify a case against him after all this time!) The Australian government certainly doesn't want the spectacle of a politically damning trial here, either. Nor does it want to explain to the Australian public why it has allowed one of it's citizens to languish in a foreign detention centre for no justifiable reason if he's not tried at all. So what's to happen to David Hicks then? How much longer can this cruel situation continue?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 11:13 am
msolga wrote:
It looks as though both the US & Australian governments don't quite know what to do about David Hicks. Is it 5 years in Guantanamo now? The US authorities don't seem to have sufficient evidence to convict him & want to handball the awkward problem of his lengthy detention back to the (usually obliging) Australian government. (Imagine the political fallout of a trial where the US authorities couldn't justify a case against him after all this time!) The Australian government certainly doesn't want the spectacle of a politically damning trial here, either. Nor does it want to explain to the Australian public why it has allowed one of it's citizens to languish in a foreign detention centre for no justifiable reason if he's not tried at all. So what's to happen to David Hicks then? How much longer can this cruel situation continue?


until he dies. then the story will be buried at the same time some trivial but sensationalist story about a collie on life suipport or something comes out.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 11:17 am
Lassie!
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 11:25 am
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
until he dies. then the story will be buried at the same time some trivial but sensationalist story about a collie on life suipport or something comes out.



<sigh>

That'd be funny is it wasn't so plausible.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 12:02 pm
It wasn't supposed to be funny...more's the pity.
0 Replies
 
 

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